Jazz are finished

[lakerboy]

Tell that to the 2000 Portland team.
Tell that to Pippen and Sabonis.

Tell that to the Sacramento Kings in 2002.

Both teams got royally screwed by Stern's officials.
Coincidence that both times the large market LA Lakers were on the beneficial side of the 'screw jobs'?
I think not.

Sac maybe. Portland no I'm sorry but they choked. NBA wants and hopes for certain matchups but I'm not into that whole ball of yarn thinking.

[Goat Milk]

Tell that to the 2000 Portland team.
Tell that to Pippen and Sabonis.

Tell that to the Sacramento Kings in 2002.

Both teams got royally screwed by Stern's officials.
Coincidence that both times the large market LA Lakers were on the beneficial side of the 'screw jobs'?
I think not.

Kobe destroyed those teams. Kobe was the best player on the court, by far, on a team that had Shaq, in those WCFs.

Sure they got a few whistles but what happens if Kobe didn't hit those clutch shots? Then LA is going home.

[Goat Milk]

If the NBA doesn't dick Phoenix around in the WCF this year like David Stern and the NBA dicked around Sacramento and Portland in 2000 and 2002 Phoenix should be in the championship series.

Make no mistake though, NBA wants and needs a large market team or else they stand to lose millions and I'm not sure if the NBA wants to see a Suns team to reach because it's not a big enough market.

If that was the case it'd be LA and Boston in the finals every year. Boston hasn't been in the finals in over a decade. NBA could have easily let them win that game vs. Miami last year in the playoffs where Adebayo blocked Tatum. Why didn't they? If they beat Miami they were going to the finals.

Why did Golden state go to the finals year after year? Small team. It's cause they had Curry and Durant and there was no stopping them.

[Demonata]

Clippers moneyline looks so good for tomorrow!

[stevenash]

Kobe destroyed those teams. Kobe was the best player on the court, by far, on a team that had Shaq, in those WCFs.

Sure they got a few whistles but what happens if Kobe didn't hit those clutch shots? Then LA is going home.

37 whistles?

Four different national professional writers including Michael Wilbon (of the Washington Post at the time) all are in agreement that that was the biggest fixed game in American sports.

Look at the fourth quarter play by play in that game 7.
Look at the fouls called in the 4th against them.

Here's the play by play of the fourth quarter game 7

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/200006040LAL.html#q4

Those foul calls on Sabonis and Pippen weren't even touch fouls, they were ghost fouls.
Mind you without their All Universe defensive players Pippen and Sabonis who both fouled out (DQ'ed) No way the Blazers win

And Kobe didn't light them up that game.
9 for 19 (1 for 4 from three) those are pedestrian like numbers.

Dude, it was game 7, winner moves on to the finals.
NBA without Kobe and the Lake show on prime time nation wide will lose Stern and the league gazillions of dollars.

And here's the important part.
Lakers without ref help were not winning that game 7.
They were down 15 in the beginning of the fourth before all the phantom calls started to pile up.

I had no dog in that fight. I didn't care who moved on
I liked Kobe, who didn't, I had no action either way but....
That fourth quarter was crooked as the day is long.
And basketball minds more brilliant than mine also say so.

[Goat Milk]

37 whistles?

Four different national professional writers including Michael Wilbon (of the Washington Post at the time) all are in agreement that that was the biggest fixed game in American sports.

Look at the fourth quarter play by play in that game 7.
Look at the fouls called in the 4th against them.

Here's the play by play of the fourth quarter game 7

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/200006040LAL.html#q4

Those foul calls on Sabonis and Pippen weren't even touch fouls, they were ghost fouls.
Mind you without their All Universe defensive players Pippen and Sabonis who both fouled out (DQ'ed) No way the Blazers win

And Kobe didn't light them up that game.
9 for 19 (1 for 4 from three) those are pedestrian like numbers.

Dude, it was game 7, winner moves on to the finals.
NBA without Kobe and the Lake show on prime time nation wide will lose Stern and the league gazillions of dollars.

And here's the important part.
Lakers without ref help were not winning that game 7.
They were down 15 in the beginning of the fourth before all the phantom calls started to pile up.

I had no dog in that fight. I didn't care who moved on
I liked Kobe, who didn't, I had no action either way but....
That fourth quarter was crooked as the day is long.
And basketball minds more brilliant than mine also say so.

Kobe was the best player in that series from what I remember, in both of them.

Also made huge shots in the 4th when his team was folding up shop.

My only question is -- I think they were down 15 to portland that game right?

My only question is, if it was fixed, which it could have been with the Doughnagy stuff, why did the refs let Lakers go down by 15 going into the 4th?

A couple missed shots from Bryant and that series is game over, doesn't matter how many whistles you get.

[stevenash]

Kobe was the best player in that series from what I remember, in both of them.

Also made huge shots in the 4th when his team was folding up shop.

My only question is -- I think they were down 15 to portland that game right?

My only question is, if it was fixed, which it could have been with the Doughnagy stuff, why did the refs let Lakers go down by 15 going into the 4th?

A couple missed shots from Bryant and that series is game over, doesn't matter how many whistles you get.

Who knows.

Listen, I am not a tin foil wearing conspiracy kook.
Far from it, I'm an analytics number geek nerd from way back with some concentration on business.

The NFL, and NBA are a business first, sports entertainment second.
And the business of business is business, the bottom line is the bottom line and all that happy bullshit.

Kobe and the Lakers and LA aren't just sports stars on a sports team, much more than that.
Lakers with Kobe are an economy.
Lakers with Kobe and Bulls with Jordan (major markets all) teams get 18 share ratings and 30 million TV viewers in the finals
Secondary markets teams get 10 share ratings and 16 million viewers.


More viewers = more ad money, more everything money.
Major stars on major market teams sell more licensed merchandise.
It's a business first.

David Stern was the devil reincarnate, Goodell in the NFL ditto, Satan's both in business suits, but they are both business geniuses at what they do, generate revenue for their companies.

When Stern took over in 1984 the NBA was ready to go belly up.
The league was hemorrhaging cash. Almost bankrupt.

The NBA didn't start turning a profit until Stern changed the focus, the business model to the star players.
Bird, Magic, Kobe, et al.

Stern began marketing his star players and the viewers were all of a sudden tuning in, and buying tickets to games, the jerseys started selling...

Stern like I mentioned was evil, but he knew what side of the bread the butter was on.

Don't think for a second Stern's fingerprints weren't all over the 2000 and 2002 finals results.
It was just a short 10 - 12 years earlier the league was ready to fold without star player and big market drawing power.
Without Kobe and LA the league loses 40 percent revenue, if not more.

That shit was rigged for business sake.

I'll say it again, Stern was not a nice man, business isn't nice.
The business of business is business.

I love sports, it's entertainment the same way Star Wars on the Big Screen is entertainment , but I know damn well it's a business first.

Sports is not pure like fresh driven snow, I'm smart enough to know this.
That's why I don't cry over bad beats, I know full well going in funky things in a ball game can happen, and usually does.
It's my damn fault for betting the games if things don't fall my way, or as many on these boards like to joke "I was on the right (or wrong) side of the fix tonight."

Riddle me this?
What would the networks (which Stern negotiated too with) rather see? The League, The viewers?
Would the casual fan more likely tune into a Phoenix/Atlanta finals, or a LA/NYC (BKN) finals.

The casual fan knows from Harden and Durant and Paul George and Kawai (if he plays) and Kyrie...
The casual fan does not know from Capella and John Collins and Ayton.
I for one would like to see the Booker's of the world get exposure on the big stage, but I am not the casual fan.
Stern (now Silver) has my attention, regardless, the question is where are the ratings? LA and New York, or Phoenix and Slat Lake City.

[Goat Milk]

Who knows.

Listen, I am not a tin foil wearing conspiracy kook.
Far from it, I'm an analytics number geek nerd from way back with some concentration on business.

The NFL, and NBA are a business first, sports entertainment second.
And the business of business is business, the bottom line is the bottom line and all that happy bullshit.

Kobe and the Lakers and LA aren't just sports stars on a sports team, much more than that.
Lakers with Kobe are an economy.
Lakers with Kobe and Bulls with Jordan (major markets all) teams get 18 share ratings and 30 million TV viewers in the finals
Secondary markets teams get 10 share ratings and 16 million viewers.


More viewers = more ad money, more everything money.
Major stars on major market teams sell more licensed merchandise.
It's a business first.

David Stern was the devil reincarnate, Goodell in the NFL ditto, Satan's both in business suits, but they are both business geniuses at what they do, generate revenue for their companies.

When Stern took over in 1984 the NBA was ready to go belly up.
The league was hemorrhaging cash. Almost bankrupt.

The NBA didn't start turning a profit until Stern changed the focus, the business model to the star players.
Bird, Magic, Kobe, et al.

Stern began marketing his star players and the viewers were all of a sudden tuning in, and buying tickets to games, the jerseys started selling...

Stern like I mentioned was evil, but he knew what side of the bread the butter was on.

Don't think for a second Stern's fingerprints weren't all over the 2000 and 2002 finals results.
It was just a short 10 - 12 years earlier the league was ready to fold without star player and big market drawing power.
Without Kobe and LA the league loses 40 percent revenue, if not more.

That shit was rigged for business sake.

I'll say it again, Stern was not a nice man, business isn't nice.
The business of business is business.

I love sports, it's entertainment the same way Star Wars on the Big Screen is entertainment , but I know damn well it's a business first.

Sports is not pure like fresh driven snow, I'm smart enough to know this.
That's why I don't cry over bad beats, I know full well going in funky things in a ball game can happen, and usually does.
It's my damn fault for betting the games if things don't fall my way, or as many on these boards like to joke "I was on the right (or wrong) side of the fix tonight."

Riddle me this?
What would the networks (which Stern negotiated too with) rather see? The League, The viewers?
Would the casual fan more likely tune into a Phoenix/Atlanta finals, or a LA/NYC (BKN) finals.

The casual fan knows from Harden and Durant and Paul George and Kawai (if he plays) and Kyrie...
The casual fan does not know from Capella and John Collins and Ayton.
I for one would like to see the Booker's of the world get exposure on the big stage, but I am not the casual fan.
Stern (now Silver) has my attention, regardless, the question is where are the ratings? LA and New York, or Phoenix and Slat Lake City.

That all sounds good, but then why did David Stern reject the Chris Paul to the Lakers trade, when that could have easily created a 3rd dynasty for Kobe? Doesn't add up.

I think the casual fan wants to watch the best players. That's why Lebron is in the finals no matter where he goes. Whether it's Cleveland, Miami or LA. Does anyone care about Cleveland? Yet they were in the finals how many times?

How many times were the Warriors in the finals? That's certaintly not a big market and that's in a city where no one cares about sports at all.

The fans want to see the best players in the finals, they don't care about teams or economies.

Why were the Spurs in so many finals? Spurs were rated at one point as the most boring team in sports.

Tim Duncan is famous for being the most boring superstar ever. He is not marketable. At all. Yet he was in how many finals?

Your theory is interesting, but the facts don't support it.

[stevenash]

That's the business side of me coming out.
Business is not my forte though.

Golden State is San Francisco/Oakland based and is the sixth biggest TV market.

[KVB]

...The fans want to see the best players in the finals, they don't care about teams or economies...

Unitl it's their teams and economies that are tanking.

Then they care.

[stevenash]

I'm not saying year in year out.
And yeah, Spurs / Nets didn't draw flies.
That's the exception, not the rule.

Spurs/Pistons did well though.

The top nine rated TV finals all featured a Jordan team, a Kobe team, or a Bird Celtic team.
Hmmm. Highest nine rated TV series.

What side of the bread is the butter on?
What and who do you think the money men want in the series?
Atlanta or NYC (Brooklyn)
if there's a chance the money men can get Brooklyn in the finals, do you think they'll find a way to make that happen?

[ThaTopMoron]

If the NBA doesn't dick Phoenix around in the WCF this year like David Stern and the NBA dicked around Sacramento and Portland in 2000 and 2002 Phoenix should be in the championship series.

Make no mistake though, NBA wants and needs a large market team or else they stand to lose millions and I'm not sure if the NBA wants to see a Suns team to reach because it's not a big enough market.

don't need to go back that far

game 7 rockets without CP3 vs Warriors .... warriors come out shooting is off playing bad... losing by double digits first half

till the refs started letting warriors foul at will with no whistles ... doing the opposite to houston... harden gets fouled on a 3 pt shot he swishes and refs pause and call it on the floor.... etc....

refs kept it up till warriors started shooting better and got the lead and by that point in time houston had stopped even trying to drive into the paint and went ice cold from 3... no CP3 on floor that team had no idea how to stay calm and fight back vs refs

[GT21Megatron]

This place was a lot better when you weren’t around

[jjgold]

We will know tonight if jazz finished

[Goat Milk]

I'm not saying year in year out.
The top nine rated TV finals all featured a Jordan team, a Kobe team, or a Bird Celtic team.

You just named the 2 best players in NBA history and another top 7 player in history. In history...

It has nothing to do with the market. If Jordan went to portland, they'd be in the finals every year too, and Kobe and Shaq were in Milawakee, they'd be in the finals every year.

[Goat Milk]

don't need to go back that far

game 7 rockets without CP3 vs Warriors .... warriors come out shooting is off playing bad... losing by double digits first half

till the refs started letting warriors foul at will with no whistles ... doing the opposite to houston... harden gets fouled on a 3 pt shot he swishes and refs pause and call it on the floor.... etc....

refs kept it up till warriors started shooting better and got the lead and by that point in time houston had stopped even trying to drive into the paint and went ice cold from 3... no CP3 on floor that team had no idea how to stay calm and fight back vs refs

Bro Houston missed 27 straight 3 pointers in game 7. They missed 27 straight shots, just think about that. Nothing to do with the refs. If you miss 27 3s in a row, you will not be winning that game. Refs can't help you make a 3 or miss it.

[ThaTopMoron]

Bro Houston missed 27 straight 3 pointers in game 7. They missed 27 straight shots, just think about that. Nothing to do with the refs. If you miss 27 3s in a row, you will not be winning that game. Refs can't help you make a 3 or miss it.

there was 0% the nba was letting rockets without CP3 get to the finals and i remember watching the game knowing this just to see how it unfolded. funniest part was harden hitting 3's while getting fouled just for the refs to change their minds and say "foul prior to shot"... then when they drived to the paint get whacked miss the shots and once that happened enough times in a row they lost any sort of fight they had in them for that game with CP3 being out and Harden a chump

plus everyone already knows how the NBA always let those warrior teams in their prime 5 year run get away with tons of illegal screens every game

[Goat Milk]

there was 0% the nba was letting rockets without CP3 get to the finals and i remember watching the game knowing this just to see how it unfolded. funniest part was harden hitting 3's while getting fouled just for the refs to change their minds and say "foul prior to shot"... then when they drived to the paint get whacked miss the shots and once that happened enough times in a row they lost any sort of fight they had in them for that game with CP3 being out and Harden a chump

plus everyone already knows how the NBA always let those warrior teams in their prime 5 year run get away with tons of illegal screens every game

Really? Because the rockets shot 22 free throws in that game. And the warriors, with a team with Durant Curry and Thompson shot 14....

You know how many free throws Curry shot in game 7?

ZERO.

I won't change your mind, but those are facts. What you're saying is just speculation. If Refs wanted Warriors to win, they aren't letting Houston shoot almost double the free throws, especially when their team has 1 all star versus 4.

Oh and FYI, Rockets were 7/44 from 3 in that game. 15%. Is that on the Refs too?

Lol. Rest my case.

[ThaTopMoron]

Really? Because the rockets shot 22 free throws in that game. And the warriors, with a team with Durant Curry and Thompson shot 14....

You know how many free throws Curry shot in game 7?

ZERO.

I won't change your mind, but those are facts. What you're saying is just speculation. If Refs wanted Warriors to win, they aren't letting Houston shoot almost double the free throws, especially when their team has 1 all star versus 4.

Oh and FYI, Rockets were 7/44 from 3 in that game. 15%. Is that on the Refs too?

Lol. Rest my case.

i watched the game live, i remember all the non - calls for houston especially in the 3rd Q as the 10+ pt lead evaporated ...warriors got hot and rockets were missing 3's so they went to the hoop and got zero calls in the 3rd Q leading to misses, and more fast break transition opportunities ... lead to warriors building their run up towards a 10 pt lead and the game was over

refs influenced the run, wasn't that hard to help prime a super team to make a run but they didn't a bit of push to get past a team that was at home and played great in the first half

no need to debate anymore. no one here is changing their opinion. i don't like houston never liked Harden so don't care but i still know what i saw in that 3rd Q.

[nickfolker23]

Clippers win game 6, 120-115

Mitchell stats: 12 for 31, 29 points, 8 turnovers

[Goat Milk]

i watched the game live, i remember all the non - calls for houston especially in the 3rd Q as the 10+ pt lead evaporated ...warriors got hot and rockets were missing 3's so they went to the hoop and got zero calls in the 3rd Q leading to misses, and more fast break transition opportunities ... lead to warriors building their run up towards a 10 pt lead and the game was over

refs influenced the run, wasn't that hard to help prime a super team to make a run but they didn't a bit of push to get past a team that was at home and played great in the first half

no need to debate anymore. no one here is changing their opinion. i don't like houston never liked Harden so don't care but i still know what i saw in that 3rd Q.

Ok well no one on Houston besides Harden is an all star. They shouldn't get any whistles when going to the hoop. If Curry is gonna shoot 0 free throws, then eric fukking gordon, who cries on every play, shouldn't shoot any either. Simple as that. A team with 4 hall of famers got 14 attempts, a team with 1 hall of famer got 22 attempts. Enough of this conspiracy shit. These are the facts. Good day!

[beantown34]

from ESPN

Lue said before Game 5 that there was no timetable for Leonard's return as the team awaits further test results on the knee.
For the Jazz, Donovan Mitchell (right ankle soreness) and Mike Conley Jr. (right hamstring strain) are both questionable for Game 6. Mitchell's ankle has become increasingly sore throughout the series, and Conley has missed every game.

[scorpion896]

from ESPN

Lue said before Game 5 that there was no timetable for Leonard's return as the team awaits further test results on the knee.
For the Jazz, Donovan Mitchell (right ankle soreness) and Mike Conley Jr. (right hamstring strain) are both questionable for Game 6. Mitchell's ankle has become increasingly sore throughout the series, and Conley has missed every game.

And yet, they are still road favorites in LA after being clowned at home. Don't be fooled, the Jazz will be in the Finals.

[Goat Milk]

And yet, they are still road favorites in LA after being clowned at home. Don't be fooled, the Jazz will be in the Finals.

Clips tonight.

[scorpion896]

Clips tonight.

We disagree again. Jazz take this one easy.
Signed, huge Clippers fan.

[KVB]

Gonna be a battle. I have Clips winning by one but it's the playoffs.

I don't think there's a blowout tonight. I will be looking to get both teams as dogs LIVE tonight.

Utah could be dangerous if those two players (Mitch and COnley) are on the floor tonight and somewhat ready to play.

[beantown34]

i swear mitchell was limping at the end of game 5. nothing the announcers talked about but i saw him limp

[stevenash]

i swear mitchell was limping at the end of game 5. nothing the announcers talked about but i saw him limp

Everyone is gimpy.

Trae Young is gimpy
Joel Embid is gimpy
Kawai Leonard is gimpy
Donovan Mitchell is gimpy

James Harden is just fat.

[beantown34]

yes steve harden is a joke. guy is a turnover machine and a cone on defense

its kinda funny

[lakerboy]

WOW

[MrSink]

no character , clippers put their balls right down their throats . gobert , multiple defensive player of the year , no contribution ; conley not prepared ; ingles fade out , besides mitchel noone to get to the hoop and score easy two when needed ; their 0-17 run in 3rd absolute pathetic . never seen 25pt lead detoriate so quickly . big respect for clippers for pulling this off against all odds after khawhi injury . tougher basketball wins