Good pitching will usually shut down good hitting.

Orbison · 09-29-20, 07:20 PM

i was surprised they took Snell out after only 82 pitches

ThaTopMoron · 09-29-20, 07:22 PM

when i saw indians had to face yanks i knew the guaranteed winner of that short series even though i don't bet baseball

indians are a playoff joke

CMNoney · 09-29-20, 07:23 PM

Bieber finding out what it's like to pitch against a real lineup. Can't beat up on the Royals and Tigers in the playoffs pal.

d2bets · 09-29-20, 07:24 PM

But good pitching is in retrospect. Sometimes good pitching sucks and then you just claim post hoc that they sucked.

If Bieber had dominated, you would have said good pitching wins. It's a self-proving thing.

stevenash · 09-29-20, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by d2bets

But good pitching is in retrospect. Sometimes good pitching sucks and then you just claim post hoc that they sucked.

If Bieber had dominated, you would have said good pitching wins. It's a self-proving thing.

I said usually wins.

I'm in the middle of writing a baseball book (for real)
Without going into great amount of details it's about the past quarter century (25 years of MLB)

You'd be surprised how many World Champions teams have won with much better pitching.

Oh sure some teams clubbed their way to the title but they are the exception not the rule.

Yanks didn't win it all with Jetrer and Tino, and O'Neil etc. as they did with Mo, and Pettitte, and Clemens and such.......
That's just one example.

ThaTopMoron · 09-29-20, 07:51 PM

7-2 yankees

yanks another lock tomorrow

jjgold · 09-29-20, 07:57 PM

This was rare tonight

Although when all the Yankees are playing they’re pretty tough

KRIT · 09-29-20, 07:57 PM

Will that be the case tomorrow? The game that sticks out is Kim going up against Pads bats.

TheLock · 09-29-20, 08:07 PM

It’s why the Marlins and Reds are, in my opinion, very dangerous under the radar teams.

stevenash · 09-29-20, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by TheLock

It’s why the Marlins and Reds are, in my opinion, very dangerous under the radar teams.

Bauer and Castillo were the best 1-2 combination in the majors this year.

champlain · 09-29-20, 08:23 PM

Tell that to Clayton kershaw or Verlander last year. And, the athletics hitters are atrocious. Sometimes, a bad offense makes a pitcher look good. Is the Astros pitchers good today or the twins hitters suck?

rake922 · 09-29-20, 08:40 PM

Good pitching leads to winning in postseason...

jrgum3 · 09-29-20, 08:43 PM

The Yankees offense is scary. When they're healthy they're downright scary and guess what they're fully healthy and loaded for bare. If they can get decent pitching they'll be tough to beat because they're never out of a game with their ability to generate runs.

stevenash · 09-29-20, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by champlain

Tell that to Clayton kershaw or Verlander last year. And, the athletics hitters are atrocious. Sometimes, a bad offense makes a pitcher look good. Is the Astros pitchers good today or the twins hitters suck?

Good defense makes ordinary pitchers good.
And you have to look at entire staffs, not just staff aces only.

stevenash · 09-29-20, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by jrgum3

The Yankees offense is scary. When they're healthy they're downright scary and guess what they're fully healthy and loaded for bare. If they can get decent pitching they'll be tough to beat because they're never out of a game with their ability to generate runs.

Once again the Yankees offense is the exception not the rule.
Plus their bullpen is rock solid.

stevenash · 09-29-20, 08:48 PM

Cole just became the second pitcher ever to have 13 k’s and no walks in a post season game.

ThaTopMoron · 09-29-20, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by stevenash

Cole just became the second pitcher ever to have 13 k’s and no walks in a post season game.

indians hitters

pologq · 09-30-20, 07:18 AM

good successful playoff pitching is the key. regular season means shit. bieber can win the quadruple crown but he sucked big butt last night.

Roscoe_Word · 09-30-20, 07:20 AM

Gotta quote the great Yogi here, Nasher.

"Godd pitchin beats good hittin and vice versa"

champlain · 09-30-20, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by d2bets

But good pitching is in retrospect. Sometimes good pitching sucks and then you just claim post hoc that they sucked.

If Bieber had dominated, you would have said good pitching wins. It's a self-proving thing.

When the royals won the World Series, what did we say? You needed a great bullpen. So, it’s basically we will construct the narrative based on the result. The reality is when you win the World Series, you have a pretty good team with good pitchers and good hitters and they performed at the right time. Let’s not make ourselves genius for this.

Zlaniner · 09-30-20, 10:35 AM

What was Bieber excuse ?

stevenash · 09-30-20, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Zlaniner

What was Bieber excuse ?

He wasn't facing the Tigers, Royals, or Pirates and ran up against a starting pitcher with a better pedigree.
This is what I am hearing.

stevenash · 09-30-20, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by champlain

When the royals won the World Series, what did we say? You needed a great bullpen. So, it’s basically we will construct the narrative based on the result. The reality is when you win the World Series, you have a pretty good team with good pitchers and good hitters and they performed at the right time. Let’s not make ourselves genius for this.

Royals won with the greatest bullpen since Jeff Nelson set up Mariano Rivera who set up closer Jeff Wetteland in 1996.
I'm the biggest KC Royal fan on these here boards, I saw at least 140 games in 2015.

But there were other contributing factors.
KC won with stellar up the middle defense too.
It's up the middle defense that makes good pitching great and mediocre pitching good.
And team speed as well.

What most casual fans don't remember about that 2015 Royals team is that they played station to station, keep the line moving, pressure offense.

They had no team power, the team was pretty much dead last in homers.
That team was an anomaly and today's teams refuse to learn from the Royals and stubbornly try to hit home runs.

Royals offense struck out the least in the league that year. (well second to the least to be precise)
They also walked the least in the league that season, and they were pretty much dead last in power.

Well?
How did they win it all?

By making contact, getting on base by putting the ball in play and by doing so pressuring the oppositions defense into making mistakes.
Once on base utilizing that team speed...

However the main reason was the bullpen and the acquisition of Johnny Cueto (a pitcher) for the post season.

ThaTopMoron · 09-30-20, 08:59 PM

tribe built a 4 zip lead in the first and have already blown it top of 4th zero outs...

stevenash · 09-30-20, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by ThaTopMoron

tribe built a 4 zip lead in the first and have already blown it top of 4th zero outs...

Whoever said Carrasco was a good pitcher?

ThaTopMoron · 09-30-20, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by stevenash

Whoever said Carrasco was a good pitcher?

doesn't matter who they trot out there.... yanks feast lol can't believe indians are actually putting up a fight late

JIBBBY · 09-30-20, 11:14 PM

Good pitching wins in baseball.. Stevie has a clue!!

jrgum3 · 10-01-20, 04:50 AM

You definitely need pitching to win in baseball but as the Reds proved yesterday you also need clutch hitting. I'm backing them to even the score today against the Braves but if they can't get a clutch hit then it doesn't matter how well Castillo and whoever they send out there out of the bullpen pitches because they won't win.

stevenash · 10-01-20, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by jrgum3

You definitely need pitching to win in baseball but as the Reds proved yesterday you also need clutch hitting. I'm backing them to even the score today against the Braves but if they can't get a clutch hit then it doesn't matter how well Castillo and whoever they send out there out of the bullpen pitches because they won't win.

Two things.

Trevor Bauer a Cy Young candidate squared off against Max Fried.
Now Trevor Bauer is the name household name here in this match up and rightfully so, however his opponent was undefeated at 7-0 in 11 starts with a 1.09 WH/IP and a 2.25 ERA.
In this day and age of arena baseball those numbers are eye popping and one can make a case he was this years elite left handed starter.

This is one of those rare cases where two not good but excellent starters square off against each other.
(The obvious play is under 7.5 runs scored)
Now when it comes down to two excellent pitchers than you go to offense as to what side (if any) do you want to wager.
I passed because to me it was a classic pick 'em game and the closer was -115 (Braves) making it a pretty much man to man pick 'em game.

Now here's the Reds problem on offense, and I hate to keep coming back to the 2015 KC Royals who played station to station, keep the line moving, pressure offense.

The Reds depended heavily on the long ball all season and as a result struck out entirely too much and as a result left way too many on base.

Oh sure, the Reds were a top five power hitting team, but.......
Reds were dead last in team average .212 (30th out of 30)
Top five in strike out rate, etc. etc.
Not to mention they had ordinary team speed.

So when facing a lights out LHP like Fried, the log ball will not work, especially when you are striking out too much making my point that good pitching will *usually* beat good hitting especially power hitting.

Bauer was the sole reason that game went scoreless as long as it did, without Bauer Reds are done by the fifth inning down at least 4-0 (or worse)