Horse betting question

**littlekona** · 08-24-20, 04:09 PM

The CS Agent is an Idiot as most 1st line CS reps are. On win bets you know pretty close to what your getting back based on the odds. You do also ALWAYS on WIN PLACE SHOW bets get back at a min what you paid for the individual win bet as $2.10 is the min return on any bet $2 Wager. The Issue is your betting 2-3 horses win per race and it seems you caught the low priced favorite every time. So if you bet 3 horse $2 each for $6 total and catch the $4 winning favorite in every race you losing. My advise is if you are betting 2-3 horses a race make sure they are at least 2-1 odds + so you break even if that one wins.

Go Check out the horse posts as there are few really good horse players that post picks at SBR. ALSO one last word of advise STAY FAR WAY FROM MYBOOKIE they are trash book. Use BOL Heritage or Bookmaker they are all 100 times better

**makera** · 08-24-20, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by littlekona

The CS Agent is an Idiot as most 1st line CS reps are. On win bets you know pretty close to what your getting back based on the odds. You do also ALWAYS on WIN PLACE SHOW bets get back at a min what you paid for the individual win bet as $2.10 is the min return on any bet $2 Wager. The Issue is your betting 2-3 horses win per race and it seems you caught the low priced favorite every time. So if you bet 3 horse $2 each for $6 total and catch the $4 winning favorite in every race you losing. My advise is if you are betting 2-3 horses a race make sure they are at least 2-1 odds + so you break even if that one wins.
Go Check out the horse posts as there are few really good horse players that post picks at SBR. ALSO one last word of advise STAY FAR WAY FROM MYBOOKIE they are trash book. Use BOL Heritage or Bookmaker they are all 100 times better

Thank you for your reply and advice, littlekona. It's much appreciated.

The truth is that I should have won something on each race in my opinion. Again, maybe I don't understand something still. Please, let me explain. I bet on 4 races in Los Alamitos on August 23:

Race #1:

1 unit - Ministers Girl - winner
1 unit - Derby Lady

Race #2:

1 unit - Wicked Ultimatum - winner
1 unit - Mountain View

Race #3:

1 unit - Paige Runner
0.5 unit - Spectacular Storm - winner (great odds)

Race #6:

1 unit - Life Call - winner
1 unit - Orale Jesszenidog (my bet on this horse was actually canceled, have no idea why, I didn't watch the race)
1 unit - Buccaneer Baby

Only 2 horses were at a bit less than 2/1 at the time I placed the bets. And I only had one race where I bet on 3 horses (Race #6), which turned out to be 2 horses at the end anyway. All other horses had better odds than 2/1. How could I lose more than 1 unit overall with those results?

In my account history with MyBookie.ag I see my winning tickets, they were added to my balance, no problem. But at the same time I see the same tickets (with the same ticket #'s) counted as losses, so my initial stakes were subtracted from my balance.

Meaning, as an example, I bet on 2 horses in one race, one unit each. One of them won. The final math at MyBookie is as follows:

1 winning bet - 1 losing bet - initial stake of my winning bet = the end result.

As I'm new to horse racing, I Googled this thing. I didn't find any articles or anyone talking about it. The only thing I found is the opposite. It's obvious that the amount you risk is paid back if you win the bet.

Or am I wrong? If yes, it doesn't make any sense. Because if I bet on a horse at +100 and win, I will win $0.00 in case my stake is not paid back to me.

**gauchojake** · 08-24-20, 07:50 PM

What you are betting at the book is not fixed odds, the book pays at the parimutuel odds that the track posts after the race is settled. They show the morning line odds though so it's a bit deceiving if you are new to the game.

So for instance horse Life Call paid 3.40 for every 2.00 wagered. Spectacular storm paid like 5.80 for every two dollars wagered. I didn't check the ML but 5.80 is not great odds so I'm guessing these moved on you

Morning line odds move with the betting public.

Also the 1 horse jesszenidog was a late scratch... The horse reared up in the gate and tossed the jockey.

Good luck pal

**makera** · 08-24-20, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by gauchojake

What you are betting at the book is not fixed odds, the book pays at the parimutuel odds that the track posts after the race is settled. They show the morning line odds though so it's a bit deceiving if you are new to the game.
So for instance horse Life Call paid 3.40 for every 2.00 wagered. Spectacular storm paid like 5.80 for every two dollars wagered. I didn't check the ML but 5.80 is not great odds so I'm guessing these moved on you
Morning line odds move with the betting public.
Also the 1 horse jesszenidog was a late scratch... The horse reared up in the gate and tossed the jockey.
Good luck pal

Thank you for your reply. Now everything is clear. I somehow missed the part about the odds not being fixed. Thanks again!

BTW, does any book offer fixed odds for horse racing?

**gauchojake** · 08-24-20, 08:18 PM

I think some Euro and Aussie books offer as well as some legit USA books

Nobody offshore that I know of. If you find a decent one let me know.

**KrisBryant17** · 08-24-20, 08:21 PM

Raiders you ever see the piece of crap cars guys drive at the track?? You can’t win

**SBR Tony** · 08-24-20, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by makera

Thank you for your reply and advice, littlekona. It's much appreciated.

The truth is that I should have won something on each race in my opinion. Again, maybe I don't understand something still. Please, let me explain. I bet on 4 races in Los Alamitos on August 23:

Race #1:

1 unit - Ministers Girl - winner
1 unit - Derby Lady

Race #2:

1 unit - Wicked Ultimatum - winner
1 unit - Mountain View

Race #3:

1 unit - Paige Runner
0.5 unit - Spectacular Storm - winner (great odds)

Race #6:

1 unit - Life Call - winner
1 unit - Orale Jesszenidog (my bet on this horse was actually canceled, have no idea why, I didn't watch the race)
1 unit - Buccaneer Baby

Only 2 horses were at a bit less than 2/1 at the time I placed the bets. And I only had one race where I bet on 3 horses (Race #6), which turned out to be 2 horses at the end anyway. All other horses had better odds than 2/1. How could I lose more than 1 unit overall with those results?

In my account history with MyBookie.ag I see my winning tickets, they were added to my balance, no problem. But at the same time I see the same tickets (with the same ticket #'s) counted as losses, so my initial stakes were subtracted from my balance.

Meaning, as an example, I bet on 2 horses in one race, one unit each. One of them won. The final math at MyBookie is as follows:

1 winning bet - 1 losing bet - initial stake of my winning bet = the end result.

As I'm new to horse racing, I Googled this thing. I didn't find any articles or anyone talking about it. The only thing I found is the opposite. It's obvious that the amount you risk is paid back if you win the bet.

Or am I wrong? If yes, it doesn't make any sense. Because if I bet on a horse at +100 and win, I will win $0.00 in case my stake is not paid back to me.

First of all like gauchojake said, you need to stop betting 2-3 horses per race.

When placing a Horse wager your horse could be 3-1, but as it gets closer to post time that horse could be bet down or up
The gate opens and the Final odds are set.

The highest priced horse you hit paid $5.80
That 1st race paid $2.80, you bet two horses to win, you lost money
The 2nd race winner paid $3.40, you played two horses, you Lost.
the 3rd race winner paid $5.80, you played two horses, you made $1.80
in the 6th race the winner paid $3.40, you played three horse, but one was Scratched ( did not start/race ) you still lost 60 cents
*** the above based on $2.00 wagers

You can find the results here, https://www.equibase.com/static/char...20USA-EQB.html

bottom line is horse odds move, you can place a wager on a horse that is 10-1 morning line, and he can go off at 2-1

You can also use the above site to get information on each horse, but I think you need more time

Good luck

**makera** · 08-24-20, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by SBR Tony

First of all like gauchojake said, you need to stop betting 2-3 horses per race.

When placing a Horse wager your horse could be 3-1, but as it gets closer to post time that horse could be bet down or up
The gate opens and the Final odds are set.

The highest priced horse you hit paid $5.80
That 1st race paid $2.80, you bet two horses to win, you lost money
The 2nd race winner paid $3.40, you played two horses, you Lost.
the 3rd race winner paid $5.80, you played two horses, you made $1.80
in the 6th race the winner paid $3.40, you played three horse, but one was Scratched ( did not start/race ) you still lost 60 cents
*** the above based on $2.00 wagers

You can find the results here, https://www.equibase.com/static/char...20USA-EQB.html

bottom line is horse odds move, you can place a wager on a horse that is 10-1 morning line, and he can go off at 2-1

You can also use the above site to get information on each horse, but I think you need more time

Good luck

Thanks, Tony. Now I know more. And yes, I'll take it slow.

**KrisBryant17** · 08-24-20, 09:34 PM

This isn’t the real SBR. Your telling me no one remembers JJ golds horse racing video where he starts by saying raiiiiidahs. You can’t win at horse racing. All the guys with the sleeper cars so it don’t look like they got money.

**gauchojake** · 08-24-20, 11:33 PM

I missed that one. Jj made a lot of videos at the track

**grekos** · 08-25-20, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by makera

Hi all! I bet on horses for the first time yesterday. I bet straight "WIN" bets, 2-3 horses in each race. One of my bets won in every race. So I thought, great, today is a profitable day!

I used MyBookie.ag. But when I checked my balance there, I saw that I lost slightly more than 1 unit. Obviously, I was surprised. So, I talked to their support and it turns out that if you win a bet, you don't get your stake back. Just the net difference. Their support's exact quote was:

"Horse betting is different, it is like the lottery, you buy a ticket to win a certain amount, but you do not get back what you paid for the ticket."

It seems very strange to me. Is it the way it really works? If yes, what's the point risking betting on horses with such small returns? Or I don't understand something. I'm new to horse betting. Your help will be much appreciated!

Support is correct,if you were at the track you would get you're stake back but compared to a book you didn't hand it to them you're available balance is at stake and is removed if you lose or put back if you win.

**biggie12** · 08-25-20, 09:38 AM

makers I own several horses at woodbine racetrack. I can tell you right now even with knowing the trainers..hot walkers... other owners. vets etc etc.... You will NEVER and I mean NEVER beat the Takeout in horse racing. Sure 0.5% will win from getting lucky and they will call themselves professionals. These guys are not giving out free information to drive down their odds.

just a few Canadian track examples upwards to 22% takeout. Search Google for Racetrack takeout %.

**gauchojake** · 08-25-20, 01:53 PM

20% takeout is too much. You need to play promos and specials. Get your wife's SSN and bonus whore all the USA sites. Open accounts in your kid's names etc etc etc to beat the odds.

**SBR Tony** · 08-25-20, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by gauchojake

20% takeout is too much. You need to play promos and specials. Get your wife's SSN and bonus whore all the USA sites. Open accounts in your kid's names etc etc etc to beat the odds.

**pologq** · 08-25-20, 02:05 PM

horse racing is very tough. talk to my father doing it since he was 15 and now 50 years later still waiting for the continuous money to fall in. he will never change. love the guy but so much lost on horses during his life.

**asiagambler** · 08-25-20, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by makera

Thank you for your reply. Now everything is clear. I somehow missed the part about the odds not being fixed. Thanks again!

BTW, does any book offer fixed odds for horse racing?

bet365. however they will limit you quickly to peanuts

many italian books (snai, betflag, eurobet, etc.) also offer fixed odds but not until like 15 minutes to post

**SBR Tony** · 08-25-20, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by pologq

horse racing is very tough. talk to my father doing it since he was 15 and now 50 years later still waiting for the continuous money to fall in. he will never change. love the guy but so much lost on horses during his life.

betting horses is a grind
the problem with most horse gamblers is you can't bet every race.
I had a friend that was an action junkie and loved the fact that he could bet every 20 minutes or so.
but just like any gambling, the more games you play, the longer you are at the table, etc. the better chance you will lose.

**gauchojake** · 08-25-20, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by SBR Tony

My wife gets TVG checks in her name and is like WTF dude???????

I'm like baby don't worry about it we're married it's all the same money

**Bandit** · 08-25-20, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by biggie12

makers I own several horses at woodbine racetrack. I can tell you right now even with knowing the trainers..hot walkers... other owners. vets etc etc.... You will NEVER and I mean NEVER beat the Takeout in horse racing. Sure 0.5% will win from getting lucky and they will call themselves professionals. These guys are not giving out free information to drive down their odds
just a few Canadian track examples upwards to 22% takeout. Search Google for Racetrack takeout %.

Sounds like your very knowledgeable. I too have owned racehorses (no longer - retired), since early 70's. Noticed your reply regarding Horseplayers and insinuated Never beating the takeout. Your correct, sort of............

Takeout is tough on horseplayers - 17% - minimum, but my friend, I've never heard the trainers and owners complain about the enormous purses at your track.
Before you start rambling, remember without those people in the stands your NOT racing for those juicy purses.
Since you know, few if any players win at the track, then I respectfully disagree with your assumption 0.5% win.
FYI according to the IRS and the state of New York, registered players account for approx 9% with taxable income over 550,000, from, you guessed it Racing.
Finally, I am sure you must be aware of 2 large computer groups (might be more) wagering mega bucks at Woodbine. If not now you do.

**BOA12** · 08-26-20, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by pologq

horse racing is very tough. talk to my father doing it since he was 15 and now 50 years later still waiting for the continuous money to fall in. he will never change. love the guy but so much lost on horses during his life.

Action Man your Dad. Mine was 2. Less is more in this game, why after 44 years of playing, limiting myself to dirt, WP mostly. Gimmicks, betting more than one track, etc... destroy all The Great Ones( Horse Players Are The Greatest people, ask your Dad). Bol poloqq.

**floridagolfer** · 08-26-20, 09:06 AM

Making money on a regular basis at the racetrack is the hardest game there is. It takes a lot of time and a lot of work, which is something people don't want to do.

**BOA12** · 08-26-20, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by floridagolfer

Making money on a regular basis at the racetrack is the hardest game there is. It takes a lot of time and a lot of work, which is something people don't want to do.

I've read 5 or 6 books. Toughest game ever. My passion. Money management, or lack there of, destroys even experts. Drinking, while a great enhancer

, not recommended, unless pre cappin'.

Bol 2All

**littlekona** · 08-26-20, 05:58 PM

just like many sports bettors here many horse race players leave much on the table via not wagering at sites with outstanding rebates and or exchanges for win bets that have much better odds. many smart losing players are actually winners the next day when the rebates get credited.

The best part of horse racing is that there are many players like the OP here(nothing against sir) that have no clue bet blind and pray. That is another reason it is beatable by some. Its kinda like poker your lots of horrible players adding to the pot

**gauchojake** · 08-26-20, 08:27 PM

Unavailable

https://www.google.com/mymaps/viewer?mid=1s6U2mTmAX67eGID_F3xYuSvF0NE&hl=en

this is kinda cool

map of horse tracks with takeout info

**ByeShea** · 08-27-20, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Bandit

FYI according to the IRS and the state of New York, registered players account for approx 9% with taxable income over 550,000, from, you guessed it Racing.

I’m confused here, 9% of who/what?

**trytrytry** · 08-27-20, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by gauchojake

https://www.google.com/mymaps/viewer...YuSvF0NE&hl=en

this is kinda cool

map of horse tracks with takeout info

super nice thanks for that. India has racing also parimutual some ADWs here cover (they are down now ) that one not listed but wow so many others listed. very cool.

**Pigpen** · 08-27-20, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by gauchojake

https://www.google.com/mymaps/viewer...YuSvF0NE&hl=en

this is kinda cool

map of horse tracks with takeout info

Excellent link.

**trytrytry** · 08-27-20, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by gauchojake

https://www.google.com/mymaps/viewer...YuSvF0NE&hl=en

this is kinda cool

map of horse tracks with takeout info

on the map is this track incredible they have racing industry there. dont think we can wager on it, ive not seen it listed.
youtube shows these races at times, or replays was wondering about what this was!

Champs de MarsnameChamps de MarsdescriptionTakeout unknownDetails from Google Maps9 Dauphine St, Port Louis, Mauritius+230 212 2212www.mauritiusturfclub.com4.2View in Google Maps

**biggie12** · 08-27-20, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Bandit

Sounds like your very knowledgeable. I too have owned racehorses (no longer - retired), since early 70's. Noticed your reply regarding Horseplayers and insinuated Never beating the takeout. Your correct, sort of............

Takeout is tough on horseplayers - 17% - minimum, but my friend, I've never heard the trainers and owners complain about the enormous purses at your track.
Before you start rambling, remember without those people in the stands your NOT racing for those juicy purses.
Since you know, few if any players win at the track, then I respectfully disagree with your assumption 0.5% win.
FYI according to the IRS and the state of New York, registered players account for approx 9% with taxable income over 550,000, from, you guessed it Racing.
Finally, I am sure you must be aware of 2 large computer groups (might be more) wagering mega bucks at Woodbine. If not now you do.

quiet with your non sense. Who are these computer groups u talk of. I know guys hitting multiple pick 4's and 5 making six digit scores and they are still down in the end.

You retired in the 70's are you over 100 now? This is a different sport now old man. And FYI woodbine losing money on the track for years. casino keeps them in business.

did your reading and writing comprehension diminish with age?

**icon** · 08-27-20, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by biggie12

quiet with your non sense. Who are these computer groups u talk of. I know guys hitting multiple pick 4's and 5 making six digit scores and they are still down in the end.

You retired in the 70's are you over 100 now? This is a different sport now old man. And FYI woodbine losing money on the track for years. casino keeps them in business.

did your reading and writing comprehension diminish with age?

Biggie who is your trainer at Woodbine?

**gauchojake** · 08-27-20, 02:27 PM

Biggie cleans the stalls to save money

**littlekona** · 08-27-20, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by biggie12

quiet with your non sense. Who are these computer groups u talk of. I know guys hitting multiple pick 4's and 5 making six digit scores and they are still down in the end.

You retired in the 70's are you over 100 now? This is a different sport now old man. And FYI woodbine losing money on the track for years. casino keeps them in business.

did your reading and writing comprehension diminish with age?

the computer syndicate players are getting huge rebates some tracks and pools near 15 % + they also contribute to huge portions of the pools in carryover exotics like pick 5 and 6. I have seen where they have more then 50% of the total amount wagered into certain pools. They are also very sneaky smart and will bet more then the min or multi tickets in jackpot exotics to keep them going and build massive pools which they know they can profit from

**biggie12** · 08-27-20, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by littlekona

the computer syndicate players are getting huge rebates some tracks and pools near 15 % + they also contribute to huge portions of the pools in carryover exotics like pick 5 and 6. I have seen where they have more then 50% of the total amount wagered into certain pools. They are also very sneaky smart and will bet more then the min or multi tickets in jackpot exotics to keep them going and build massive pools which they know they can profit from

Doubtful. even if getting 15% rebate. takeouts on pick 5 average is 25%.

**biggie12** · 08-27-20, 05:19 PM

littlekona to add to this most of the online books offering horse racing wagers cap winnings at like 25k.