Best pitcher of all time Roger Clemens or Clayton Kershaw?

**daneblazer** · 08-26-19, 02:29 PM

Old Hoss Radbourn

**allabout the $$$** · 08-26-19, 02:29 PM

Pedro all day

**MinnesotaFats** · 08-26-19, 02:31 PM

Sandy Kaufax
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Bob Gibson
...don't laugh, but Johan Santana was unhittable for 5 years, thou Maddox probably gets the nod in my #5 spot

**DiggityDaggityDo** · 08-26-19, 02:38 PM

Christy Mathewson (1900-1916)

Associated Press
Career Stats: 373-188, 4780.2 IP, 2.13 ERA, 4.71 K/9, 2.96 K/BB, 90.0 WAR
Five-Year Peak: 1907-11

Christy Mathewson's career was a few years shorter than each of the other players in our top four, which is why his cumulative WAR isn't quite as high as the likes of Young, Randy Johnson and Walter Johnson. It's amazing what he was able to accomplish in his 14 full and three partial years, though.

Mathewson's best individual season actually came two years before the start of his multiyear peak. In 1905, he won 31 games with a 1.28 ERA, leading the National League in strikeouts for the third consecutive season. And as we'll get into shortly, he had one heck of a showing in that World Series.

From 1907 through 1911, though, he won 139 games (27.8 per year) with a 1.69 ERA and 0.96 WHIP.

He averaged 6.8 shutouts per season and even picked up 12 of his 30 career saves during this time.

And while his K/9 rate doesn't compare to the more recent pitchers, Mathewson's K/BB ratio (3.98) was rock solid and significantly better than those of other legends of this era, like Johnson, Young and Grover "Pete" Alexander.

Postseason Success
Mathewson's numbers were strong across the board, but the postseason factor made him the No. 1 pitcher no matter how many ways the formulas were tweaked. It's all but impossible for anyone to ever be more dominant than he was in 1905, pitching complete-game shutouts in Games 1, 3 and 5 of the World Series to pace the New York Giants to a championship.

He was no one-hit wonder, either. Mathewson made eight more starts in the 1911-13 World Series. He only gave up more than two earned runs in one of those games, despite pitching more than nine innings in four of them.

In all, he pitched 101.2 innings with a 0.97 ERA and four shutouts. He only managed a 5-5 record, though, as the Giants gave him virtually no run support in the process of losing three straight World Series.

**cincinnatikid513** · 08-26-19, 02:40 PM

walter johnson

**slayer14** · 08-26-19, 02:42 PM

Randy Johnson for me the man was fearless in big games

**franklee168** · 08-26-19, 02:45 PM

If it's playoff/world series time, It's MadBum for sure.

**209 Life** · 08-26-19, 02:46 PM

MadBum has rings, Kershaw doesn't

**Bostongambler** · 08-26-19, 02:47 PM

Cuz Young, even though he never won the Cy Young award.

**MinnesotaFats** · 08-26-19, 04:03 PM

Can't give it to anyone who didn't face black hitters.

10 years after Jackie came into the league we had Aaron, Mays, Clemente, Banks, William's, Stargel, Bonds, etc

There was always black hitters that should have been MLB players

....still no good black QBs thou

**lakerboy** · 08-26-19, 04:04 PM

Bob Gibson.

**Big Bear** · 08-26-19, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by MinnesotaFats

Can't give it to anyone who didn't face black hitters.

10 years after Jackie came into the league we had Aaron, Mays, Clemente, Banks, William's, Stargel, Bonds, etc

There was always black hitters that should have been MLB players

....still no good black QBs thou

there was always this running joke back when I played that black guys can’t hit a curve ball

**mike tyson35** · 08-26-19, 04:15 PM

They are 2 completely different pitchers.

**pilebuck13** · 08-26-19, 04:15 PM

Can’t go by career numbers if they don’t pitch well in postseason they off the list.

**Bostongambler** · 08-26-19, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by MinnesotaFats

Can't give it to anyone who didn't face black hitters.

10 years after Jackie came into the league we had Aaron, Mays, Clemente, Banks, William's, Stargel, Bonds, etc

There was always black hitters that should have been MLB players

....still no good black QBs thou

Clemente , black???

**cincinnatikid513** · 08-26-19, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by MinnesotaFats

Can't give it to anyone who didn't face black hitters.

10 years after Jackie came into the league we had Aaron, Mays, Clemente, Banks, William's, Stargel, Bonds, etc

There was always black hitters that should have been MLB players

....still no good black QBs thou

patrick mahomes russel wilson watson

**2daBank** · 08-26-19, 05:11 PM

Neither one is the best pitcher of all time.

**2daBank** · 08-26-19, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by cincinnatikid513

patrick mahomes russel wilson watson

He thinks Kirk cousins is better than them, lmfao

**MinnesotaFats** · 08-26-19, 05:47 PM

Mahomes 1 good year
Watson no
Russel Wilson same stats as Cam Newton...but I do like Cam and Wilson, always feel they are gamers....but young careers

Kirk better career than all them so far, no question about it

**cincinnatikid513** · 08-26-19, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by MinnesotaFats

Mahomes 1 good year
Watson no
Russel Wilson same stats as Cam Newton...but I do like Cam and Wilson, always feel they are gamers....but young careers

Kirk better career than all them so far, no question about it

kirk cousins hasn't done poop except rob the vikings owner

**kidcudi92** · 08-26-19, 05:51 PM

Days like today are why everyone thinks you are the ultimate dumb fukk

**allabout the $$$** · 08-26-19, 07:07 PM

look at pedros #'s in the juiced ball era. they are ridiculous for a guy his size to do what he did is ridiculous. clemens leave him out because before he started on the juice his #'s were terrible the previous years.

**MinnesotaFats** · 08-26-19, 07:31 PM

Yeah Pedro had that run there....you think Pedro was on something or not???

Always wondered how a skinny dude got so much action on his ball and his arm never got hurt....

**hawkwind** · 08-26-19, 07:36 PM

Neither both very good pitchers but neither is the best of all time.

**Hman** · 08-26-19, 07:40 PM

To answer the question, Clemens

**Mike Huntertz** · 08-26-19, 07:45 PM

Clemons was juicing....cheater!

**lakerboy** · 08-26-19, 07:49 PM

Bob Gibson completed 255 of the 482 games he started. Guy was easily the best pitcher of the modern era. His playoff work was even better. They changed the mound because of him.

**allabout the $$$** · 08-26-19, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by MinnesotaFats

Yeah Pedro had that run there....you think Pedro was on something or not???

Always wondered how a skinny dude got so much action on his ball and his arm never got hurt....

no way he was on something he was like 165 soaking wet

**Hman** · 08-26-19, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by Mike Huntertz

Clemons was juicing....cheater!

Yeah but plenty were and just didn't get caught

**Luv2Play2** · 08-26-19, 08:18 PM

Yeppers,,, GIBSON

**jtoler** · 08-26-19, 08:19 PM

im tentatively gonna fade kershaw every game from the first game in the playoffs

**Mike Huntertz** · 08-26-19, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Big Bear

I get it one is lefty one is righty

but who would you pick if both were in their prime?

Juice Boy Clemens isn't in the HOF.....how can he be the greatest???

**swordsandtequila** · 08-26-19, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by lakerboy

Bob Gibson completed 255 of the 482 games he started. Guy was easily the best pitcher of the modern era. His playoff work was even better. They changed the mound because of him.

**allabout the $$$** · 08-26-19, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by Hman

Yeah but plenty were and just didn't get caught

not randy or pedro!