The Best Pitcher Ever

[jellobiafra]

Koufax had
1.88
1.74
2.04
1.73

over about 6 years worth of innings 1192 innings with 1228 SO's and a 97-27 record with 3 no hitters and 1 perfect game

maddux's best 4 years would be
1.56
1.63
2.72
2.20

over 888 innings for a 69-23 record with 686 so's

No doubt in my mind that Koufax was a better, more dominant pitcher than Maddux when he pitched. But there's still something to be said for 17 straight 15 win seasons, 4 consecutive Cy Youngs, and 351 career victories. And all for a guy who never broke 92 on a radar gun.

[jellobiafra]

Goddamn. Koufax was ridiculous. Maddux.....2nd best pitcher of all time. Good call Archie.


(Still, the mound was higher and anybody who knows pitching knows that was a huge advantage.)

[tacomax]

Goddamn. Koufax was ridiculous. Maddux.....2nd best pitcher of all time. Good call Archie.

Hang on. Had you heard of Sandy Koufax before tonight?

[BadNina]

There have been some great ones and Maddux rightly deserves to be called one of them. He could paint those corners so well. He was so much fun to watch.

[jellobiafra]

Hang on. Had you heard of Sandy Koufax before tonight?

Stop it. This is the first time I've seen you involved in an actual sports conversation. I'm very proud of you.



Good pull with the Cy Young by the way. Never heard of him either.

[tacomax]

There have been some great ones and Maddux rightly deserves to be called one of them. He could paint those corners so well. He was so much fun to watch.

It's almost as if I'm watching your inheritance being flushed down the drain.

[BadNina]

It's almost as if I'm watching your inheritance being flushed down the drain.

It's safe. Grandma loves me.

[Willie Bee]

We may have taken him for granted, but I want to acknowledge him here. Best there ever was and the best there will ever be. Greg Freakin Maddux.

The numbers you quoted from 1994 and 1995 were from abbreviated seasons. Still, I think you can make an argument for him to be the greatest of his era. Clemens and Martinez supporters can do the same.

But best there ever was? I can't do that, just don't think it's fair to compare players from across all of the eras.

[jjgold]

Best ever mean longevity? If it does then Maddux wins the award

He was not a dominant pitcher though like Clemens, Pedro, Johnson, Carleton, ect

[CashMoney]

Maddux was great but not the all time greatest. I don't think we'll see anyone in the future that will be as consistant as he was. A 3.16 lifetime ERA is nuts.

[pavyracer]

Greg Maddux - Best
Randy Johnson - 2nd Best

The pitchers who pitched in the 60's and 70's like Koufax and Ryan wouldn't make a roster if they pitched today.

[Bogart45]

I think the best in the last 20 or so years in Randy Johnson.

[CashMoney]

I think the best in the last 20 or so years in Randy Johnson.

100% Agree

[GreatDanes52]

I gotta go with Tom Seaver here

[DwightShrute]

Roger Clemens

no one has proven he took steroids

[raydog]

maddux was the only guy ive ever seen who could strike out batter after batter without ever coming close to the strike zone. guys wouldnt chase the balls way outside the zone, yet maddux kept getting the calls. a lot of guys made their living that way. you wont see numbers like koufax or maddux again and you wouldnt have seen them out of maddux with todays zone.

[CashMoney]

I think the best in the last 20 or so years in Randy Johnson.

Roger Clemens

no one has proven he took steroids

Clemens didn't take steroids. If you beleive that I'm hanging out with Santa and the Easter Bunny tonight.

[DwightShrute]

Clemens didn't take steroids. If you beleive that I'm hanging out with Santa and the Easter Bunny tonight.

Because some bitter ex trainer says he did? Maybe you're right I dunno for sure, just like you don't.

[cocknocker]

Old Skool

Walter Johnson (The Big Train)
Warren Spahn

New School

Roger Clemens
Dennis Eckersley

[Willie Bee]

The pitchers who pitched in the 60's and 70's like Koufax and Ryan wouldn't make a roster if they pitched today.

Well now we know why you never made it as a baseball scout.

[lakerboy]

Mariano Rivera is the greatest and most dominant pitcher that baseball has ever seen or will see. His lifetime era of under 1 in the post season is incredible. I dont care that he is a closer. Maddux was useless in most post season games he pitched. Rivera could pitch in any era and I dont think you can say that about everyone. Anybody who thinks Rivera isnt the greatest closed their eyes for the last 14 years.

[obamaismyuncle]

When Pedro was good, he was real real good

[hoopster42]

bob gibson for me.....................

[obamaismyuncle]

I think Koufax and Cy Young were the best ever. Koufax in his prime may have been the most talented, but he only had a 5-6 year stretch. Cy Young, he compiled 511 wins. He had 5 years of over 30 victories in a season. He also had 3 no hitters and pitched the very 1st perfect game.

[hoopster42]

Mariano Rivera is the greatest and most dominant pitcher that baseball has ever seen or will see. His lifetime era of under 1 in the post season is incredible. I dont care that he is a closer. Maddux was useless in most post season games he pitched. Rivera could pitch in any era and I dont think you can say that about everyone. Anybody who thinks Rivera isnt the greatest closed their eyes for the last 14 years.

rivera is not necessarily the best closer in baseball history let alone the best ever pitcher

gibson, koufax, cy young, nolan ryan...............all ahead of rivera for best ever pitcher

eckersley, fingers, and others, right there in the convo w/rivera abt best ever closer

[obamaismyuncle]

Mariano Rivera is the greatest and most dominant pitcher that baseball has ever seen or will see. His lifetime era of under 1 in the post season is incredible. I dont care that he is a closer. Maddux was useless in most post season games he pitched. Rivera could pitch in any era and I dont think you can say that about everyone. Anybody who thinks Rivera isnt the greatest closed their eyes for the last 14 years.

What if rivera had spent his career with the Royals or Pirates? Clearly you just don't get it. Trevor hoffman is better than Rivera, but has spent his career on mostly shitty teams.

[lakerboy]

rivera is not necessarily the best closer in baseball history let alone the best ever pitcher

gibson, koufax, cy young, nolan ryan...............all ahead of rivera for best ever pitcher

eckersley, fingers, and others, right there in the convo w/rivera abt best ever closer

hoopster guy i cant understand you. have you ever seen rivera pitch. the guy has been so dominating over 14 years not 5-6 years its unreal. and dont even compare eckersley or fingers to him. eckersley had a good run. rivera has been doing it since day one. nolan ryan was known for throwing no-hitters and strikeouts. he had pretty average win-loss numbers. gibson was good for a select few years.

Rivera is the most dominant pitcher for the entire life of his career that the game has ever seen bar none.

[Chi_archie]

speaking of short periods of dominance..... Doc Gooden was just about as good as any other modern pitcher for a period of about 3-5 years, he was pretty much untouchable..


but if its game 7 of the WS and I can give the ball to any pitcher of all time in his prime.... its gotta be Koufax

[lakerboy]

What if rivera had spent his career with the Royals or Pirates? Clearly you just don't get it. Trevor hoffman is better than Rivera, but has spent his career on mostly shitty teams.

first of obamuncle clown stop typing in bold and busting cks style you dumbass.

rivera was used less than optimum by the yankees cause when they dominated they had many blowouts so he didnt even get into save situations unlike hoffman who pitches in all save situations for shitty teams who win 80 games so he actually got more opportunities. And do you think Rivera would have had less dominating stuff pitching on shittier teams. Also Rivera has been at his most dominating in the pressure packed post season when he has been virtually unhittable unlike Hoffman who blew the most important game of his career by allowing a 3run homer to scott brosius when your mama was still changing your diapers clown

[Commander McBrag]

Lefty Grove

[Chi_archie]

Rivera is the greatest closer, but I can't compare closers to starters... a closer only has to face 3-5 batters... NEVER has to go through a lineup a 2nd or third time. that is huge. the 2nd time a hitter sees a pitcher his % of getting a hit goes up about .50 points and another .50-.75 the 3rd and 4th time he sees the same pitcher. the old pitchers almost always pitched 9 innings, and thus had to come up with new ways to fool great hitters 3-4 times a game. thinking ahead and setting them up in the first inning for pitches they will throw in the 7th, 8th and 9th in crucial spots. specialization has done away with this to a great extent

closer's can just let it all hang out, balls to the wall on adrenaline.... different animals and breeds these days...

[obamaismyuncle]

Mariano Rivera is the greatest and most dominant pitcher that baseball has ever seen or will see. His lifetime era of under 1 in the post season is incredible. I dont care that he is a closer. Maddux was useless in most post season games he pitched. Rivera could pitch in any era and I dont think you can say that about everyone. Anybody who thinks Rivera isnt the greatest closed their eyes for the last 14 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obamaismyuncle



What if rivera had spent his career with the Royals or Pirates? Clearly you just don't get it. Trevor hoffman is better than Rivera, but has spent his career on mostly shitty teams.


first of obamuncle clown stop typing in bold and busting cks style you dumbass.

rivera was used less than optimum by the yankees cause when they dominated they had many blowouts so he didnt even get into save situations unlike hoffman who pitches in all save situations for shitty teams who win 80 games so he actually got more opportunities. And do you think Rivera would have had less dominating stuff pitching on shittier teams. Also Rivera has been at his most dominating in the pressure packed post season when he has been virtually unhittable unlike Hoffman who blew the most important game of his career by allowing a 3run homer to scott brosius when your mama was still changing your diapers clown

Clearly you just don't get it. Your calling me a dumbass after you said Rivera is the best pitcher ever?

Theirs no way I can have an intelligent conversation with someone who is as mentally unarmed as you.. You know the old saying, "if brains were dynamite..........." Got it Lakergirl?

[hoopster42]

Mariano Rivera is the greatest and most dominant pitcher that baseball has ever seen or will see. His lifetime era of under 1 in the post season is incredible. I dont care that he is a closer. Maddux was useless in most post season games he pitched. Rivera could pitch in any era and I dont think you can say that about everyone. Anybody who thinks Rivera isnt the greatest closed their eyes for the last 14 years.

hoopster guy i cant understand you. have you ever seen rivera pitch. the guy has been so dominating over 14 years not 5-6 years its unreal. and dont even compare eckersley or fingers to him. eckersley had a good run. rivera has been doing it since day one. nolan ryan was known for throwing no-hitters and strikeouts. he had pretty average win-loss numbers. gibson was good for a select few years.

Rivera is the most dominant pitcher for the entire life of his career that the game has ever seen bar none.

lakerboy of course i have seen rivera pitch, have seen him pitch since his rookie yr, ive also been following baseball since i was 7 yrs old, that was 26 yrs ago bro, 1983, when wade boggs, tony gwynn, rickey henderson, dale murphy and the like were ruling baseball

i talk baseball w/many friends who love the sport and follow it religiously, and rivera's name has NEVER come up when we discuss greatest pitchers of all time

cy young, gibson, koufax, ryan, these names come up.............clemens pre-steroids/HGH scandal was pretty much the best in most of our eyes, now i give the nod to mr. gibson, the st louis cardinal flamethrower of yesteryear

[gummo]

Walter Johnson went 7 straight years where is ERA was never above 1.90. Career ERA of 2.17.

[ABEHONEST]

Hi guys !I sneaked back in .
Now let ME tell you how you pick the all-time best pitcher !
You pick "the one" you will start in the World Series for your team ,your favorite team ,or ,the team you have money on .That's how !
Now ,here are the two I pick above all the rest to start my first game of the World Series....[can't pick one ] ...it's Koufax or Gibson !In their prime ,if you have to win the "one" most important game of the season ,choose one of the two and you have a guaranteed winner ! !
They were the "money" pitchers !