New books - whats their chance to survive?

**Senator7** · 10-25-05, 01:41 PM

You'd have to offer big bonuses, reduced juice, and great lines. You'd also probably have to have an incredibly large bankroll (millions) to get started and running properly. You'd also have to have an incredible marketing campaign and also be able to sustain a few years of tough times before striking it big.

Senator 7

AK · 10-25-05, 01:41 PM

Majority of "new books" have been around for decades.

Credit shops etc.

Trojan and betonstars are not going anywhere.

**SBR_John** · 10-25-05, 01:44 PM

New books - whats their chance to survive?

What is it in the real world? something like 7 out of 10 businesses fail in the first year? I'd say the odds are a little worse for a new book maybe 8 in 10 will fail.

As the two posters above me have mentioned between the Pinnacle factor and the huge amount of marketing dollars needed it seems like it will be tough for any new book to make money the first two years.

**jay88** · 10-25-05, 01:48 PM

Hi Quarm,

I can talk for Betonstars.com, don't know about Trojan.
If you consider the amount of gamblers that are there worldwide, the amount of newbies everyday, college students, asians and european players that don't even know about pinnacle, cris, hollywood and thegreek you'll see that there is market for everybody.
You are now a betting forum member and you know about therx, eog, TOW, SBR, MajorW and all the websites where every forum member bets, but you can be sure that only 15% of gamblers know those sites.
The biggest player in the industry are not the one that take bets from wise guys, the biggest players are the ones that get newbies everyday such as Sportsbook.com and Bodog.com. There is where we want to get.

**why** · 10-25-05, 01:54 PM

Depends on the book:

Financial backing
Business ethic
Employees
Niche
Performance
Strategy
Patience

3 most important factors, Head, Heart and always Money!

**jay88** · 10-25-05, 01:56 PM

I'm not interested in having JJ playing at betonstars.com and win $100,000 in one week. Just kidding!
I'm interested in having ALL the college boys that loose $200 per week, ALL the NFL fans that bet $50 on their favorite team, ALL the European soccer fans that bet 25 Euros on the sunday games. In my personal opinion there is where a sportsbook like Betonstars.com has to stand out.
It is a totally different concept than CRIS, Pinnacle and all the old shops that want people betting $5,000,000 on each side of the game.

**jay88** · 10-25-05, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by why

3 most important factors, Head, Heart and always Money!

Totally agree with you.
Plus.. Keep each and every customer happy, it doesn't matter if he bets $5000 per game or $10.

**Heysosamakeamove** · 10-25-05, 02:46 PM

Playing occasionally with them and from a few good players mouth the only newbie that’s going match the expectations is 777rock
Big bonus pinny stile on lines quick payments. And I heard they took over dimebetting. Now that they have over night lines they sound alright, with the limits at $5000 online. As long as they do transfers with some of the bigger books it seems like you can trust them.

**raiders72001** · 10-25-05, 05:50 PM

I'd say you only have a 3-5% chance to make it unless you are already and established credit operation.

You can't match the advertising that BOS and BoDOg do and you can't match the vig of Pinny.

In order to get the business that Jay is looking for you have to offer bigger bonuses than anyone else and that's risky.

**why** · 10-25-05, 06:18 PM

There is still room

BOS is just a crappy book and with more and more people going to forums, they in my mind have a fight on their hands, I will never play at that book again.

Bodog is just average and with no special niche, new books with something special or a creative niche can take market share from them and the rest of the so called solid shops, even Oly.

Pinny, Yes my favorite has some holes. Their CS is average at best and they don't respond to smaller players. Thats a big hole, most players start small, and with the fees that Pinny charges for withdrawals under $500, the astute small denomination gambler would be wise to play elsewhere.

I give these new books a better chance to succeed than proposed by many. One other cavaet which is hard to measure is the will of the new books, how bad do they want it, are their goals and expectations too high, can they stand a bad month, are they willing to fight for market share. All of which is good for players, albeit, if one goes south and you have money there you must pay the ultimate price.

One last note: The growth in this industry is mind boggling, yeah, there is room but you have to be willing to scratch and claw for every customer and that is the best news for those of us who are players and not bookmakers.

I wish all the "new" books the best of luck, may you be wise and clever, responsive and accomodating, articulate and cunning. Most of all, financially savy, and always save for a rainy day!

**jjgold** · 10-25-05, 06:21 PM

It sure seems most books are very stable and just watching themselves more carefully.

**JoshW** · 10-25-05, 06:30 PM

I play at more new books than most and get ridiculed (and more importantly stiffed by some of them). In general I don't see many of them surviving. The key is good new square customers and there is no easy solution to find them. With more books in the market the cost to get new customers is higher than ever. If you can find new players you can make a go of it, but you better have a couple damn good plans to get them.

Pinnacle isn't really new anymore and represents a different model of just being so smart that eventually they are the key to the market. Even tougher than finding new customers. ASAP tried it and almost went broke, then CRIS took them over and they eventually scaled back how much they let ASAP be different. It isn't easy.

**why** · 10-25-05, 06:43 PM

laker,

sorry those 1st 3 paragraphs were in response to the previous post.

**SBR_John** · 10-25-05, 06:47 PM

The only real book to make it in the last couple of years is Mansion. Yes BetJamaica has done well but they were an offshoot of Olympic.

I dont see it. It just takes too much money and too long of a time. Its more cost effective to buy an ongoing operation and invest in building it up.

**why** · 10-25-05, 06:50 PM

time & patience

John I hope you are wrong and I hope the new books understand what it takes.

**BuddyBear** · 10-25-05, 06:53 PM

A new book needs to do a lot of things in terms of bonuses, reduced juice, customer service, and lines...but another thing is that a new book must be prepared to take a loss in their first few years till they have an establised clientale and positive advertising.

**jay88** · 10-25-05, 07:32 PM

There are many things involved in a profitable operation. Running a sportsbook is much harder than most gamblers can imagine and there are many more things than any of you can guess unless you have been involved in one.
Of course to start a successfull operation you need tons of money to pump into the company for the first two years at least.

**JoshW** · 10-25-05, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

The only real book to make it in the last couple of years is Mansion.

With Mansion the only definition of "made it" that works is if it just means they paid and are still around. I could make it a decade and maby even become profitable (which Mansion won't) if you gave me 20 million to blow like they did.

**Heysosamakeamove** · 10-25-05, 08:01 PM

But like the big ones credibility is the most important thing next to a solid financial background. It’s hard to find good CS these days.
Starting up with a newbie is very risk but what we are looking for it’s something UNIQUE on their website. What did pinny have unique when they first open that OLYMPIC didn’t have already