[cincy]

Do Pay per Head websites give a shit if their agents stiff the players? I realize the Pay per Head websites are not involved in paying the customers and that they just provide a betting website service and that the local bookies pay the pay per head website a weekly fee for each active player. So the pay per head websites want to keep the agents that pay them happy rather than the players.

My local bookie has been stiffing me for $5000 for two months and I do not how to reach him. I complained about this to the GM at the pay per head website and he called the master agent for my account and the master agent said my account was part of a package where a sub-agent does the pay and collects. The master agent apparently claimed the sub-agent was the one stiffing me. I told the GM I don't care about this since the master agent took on the sub-agent and is ultimately responsible for the accounts. The GM said the master agent promised to call me about the money I was owed. But the master agent never called me. So I called the GM back and complained some more and he promised to call the master agent again. The master agent never got back to me so I told the GM he should shut down all the master agents accounts until he paid me. I did login to my account at the pay per head website and it showed my balance but said it was shut down for wagering. I called the pay per head website and they said they shutdown all the master agent accounts until he pays me. I was happy because I expected the master agent would immediately call me rather than having all his customer accounts shut down where they can't wager. But I still did not get a call from the master agent. So I think the pay per head website is just telling me a story that they shutdown the master agent accounts when they likely did nothing. I suspect this because the pay per head website said that master agent had been with them for 10 years and had many customers.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what other actions I can take to try to get paid? Is there any actions I can threaten the pay per head website with that would encourage them to do more? For example, what if I threaten to contact the attorney general or other government agencies and tell these agencies that the pay per head website is being used to commit fraud against consumers so they should shutdown the pay per head website. Or can I threaten to make posts all over the internet that say how the pay per head website is being used to stiff players so other players may not want to play there? I realize these may be stupid ideas so if anyone has any other ideas please let me know. Thanks.

[hels]

Edit your original post and give the website as well as the agents phone numbers.

jjgold will solve all of your problems with this information.

[frescaso]

post the pay per head site and the agent, even though it's not the sites fault it is the agent but you know what **** them both this happens way too often

[Bcatswin]

Damn dude that sucks.

[brendon]

Sorry to hear that, cincy. but at this point, there isn't really much you can do about it. I deal a lot with locals and in this case...the pph and the master agent probably can't help you either, and likely they have nothing to do with the sub-agent that dealt with you.

for example, if i want to be a bookie, i don't have time to run around to recruit players or know enough people that gambles. I hire you as my sub-agent. you bring in all your friends and family members under you. i pay you 25% weekly on net loss on all your players combined. i don't care or know any of your players, so if any of your players do not pay, it's on you. so, as you can see from the senario, your only option is to track down your sub-agent.

the master agent can just go to another pph company and set up the whole operation in one day. there is a way to find your agent. i'm sure you contacted him through his cell phone before he disappeared. you can use that old number and find out his information, even if the number has been disconnected. but, that would cost a few hundreds. good luck to you.

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

good luck man

[TEXAS MICKEY]

Sorry to hear that, cincy. but at this point, there isn't really much you can do about it. I deal a lot with locals and in this case...the pph and the master agent probably can't help you either, and likely they have nothing to do with the sub-agent that dealt with you.

for example, if i want to be a bookie, i don't have time to run around to recruit players or know enough people that gambles. I hire you as my sub-agent. you bring in all your friends and family members under you. i pay you 25% weekly on net loss on all your players combined. i don't care or know any of your players, so if any of your players do not pay, it's on you. so, as you can see from the senario, your only option is to track down your sub-agent.

the master agent can just go to another pph company and set up the whole operation in one day. there is a way to find your agent. i'm sure you contacted him through his cell phone before he disappeared. you can use that old number and find out his information, even if the number has been disconnected. but, that would cost a few hundreds. good luck to you.

I agree with most of what you said here, but you only talked about the losers, the Master Agent has to know that the guy won 5000, because his Master Account is now a plus or minus 5000 (however you want to look at it) . And he knows what account it goes too. Therfore the Master Agent needs to make good on this, and take it up with the sub-agent about getting his affairs in order. And if the sub doesn't, then the Master Agent just takes all the subs accounts under his wing and you have ""business as usual""

It's kinda like a pyramid scheme...........""AMWAY for the GAMBLERS"".........if you know what I mean.

The OP needs to stay up in this dudes ass until he gets paid. The PPH site can't do a thing for him, but he needs to keep the pressure on the Agents, as long as everything thing he has told here is above board.
Now, if the OP slow payed or stiffed them for awhile on some previous losses then he may be getting treated the same way. We don't know.

[brendon]

of course, the master agent knows cincy won $5000. he has the agent login and sees everything. but he probably doesn't even know cincy's name, all he goes by is cincy account number. he deals with the sub-agent not cincy. this is not his issue because here's the likely situations:

1. the master agent did pay the sub-agent to give the winning players. and the sub-agent ran with the money. that's why he didn't even bother to explain to cincy "hey, the bookie didn't give me the money, give me some time or lets work something out." the sub-agent flat out disappeared and cincy can't find him.

2. even though cincy won 5k, it's likely that the other players of the sub-agent lost way more than 5k, and the players ran out on the sub-agent. and now he's holding the bag. ex. another player lost 20k and he didn't pay the sub-agent. so, in this senario, he owes the bookie $11,250 (15,000-25% agent comission) and he owes cincy 5k.

my guess is the master-agent got stiffed by the sub-agent too. so if i'm the bookie and you ask me give you 5k after my guy ran away with the money i already paid you, i'll tell you to go pound sand.

[cincy]

Thanks for the replies. I recall the sub-agent initially told me that he got 25% of player losses and his business partner (the master agent) got the other 75%. So I think the master agent should be on the hook for at least 75% of this and should really be responsible for the full amount since he hired the sub-agent. The PPH site told me they agreed the master agent is responsible when they told me they shut down his accounts. But the PPH site had also previously told me that this master agent had been with them for a long time and had many customers. So I highly doubt the PPH site really shut down one of their long time master agents who has been paying them a lot of money.

I did always pay the sub-agent immediately whenever I was down and that is one argument that I used when talking to the PPH general manager. I told him to look at my account history and he would see I always paid on-time. So they are just cheating me because I won money.

The sub-agent could still be in town for all I know. His phone number is still active but he never answers my calls.

If anyone has any suggestion on what approach works when trying to get a PPH site to pressure their agents to pay then please let me know.

If anyone here has any connections with PPH website management and can help pressure the PPH website to force this master agent to pay up on his debt then I would certainly be willing to share a portion of the money collected with whoever can help me collect.

[brendon]

i dont think you know how the whole local bookie operation works. i really hope you get your money. i always root for fellow players to get paid, but i can almost guarantee you that you won't get from the master agent. they are not really partners, the sub-agent is working for the bookie. he gets a commision of 25%. like i said, i can almost sure that the bookie already paid your agent for your money.

if you think the bookie didn't give your sub-agent the money, wouldn't you think logic would say that the sub-agent would pass the blame on to the bookie? and at least give you an explanation or excuse? who wants to disappear and carry the burden that he stiffed you if he's not in the wrong.

i've been dealing with locals for years, my best advice is track the sub-agent. it's likely that this is his 2nd income. show up to his work place or house with a few friends and politely ask to talk to him.

[cincy]

Thanks but how do I track the sub-agent? I only know a first name that is likely fake. I do have his cell phone number that is still active and has not changed in the 6 months I have been with him. But isn't it likely he associated a fake name and/or address with the cell phone he uses for his bookmaking.

[noyb]

cincy, sorry to hear about this, but i do disagree with this "the master agent should really be responsible for the full amount since he hired the sub-agent". even more important, you decided to play with this sub-agent, that makes you responsible most of all. it does sound a bit on the reckless side to start betting with someone you apparently do not know more from then his mobile and a made up first name. i'm sorry you're in this mess, but it does seem a bit self-inflicted.

[brendon]

try reverse phone lookup with intelius. it's $10-20 to track a name behind a phone number. if that doesn't work, you might have to spend a little more to get someone to dig a little more, a few hundreds. and if your sub-agent uses a prepaid cell phone, nothing else to do.

good luck

[Frogger]

Sounds to me like you got a real positive response from the PPH shop. The vast majority of PPH shops wouldn't call any master agent and wouldn't help at all. Every place I've dealt with say, "Its between the agent and you, and we have nothing to do with the balance of who gets paid or not".

[cincy]

I paid a small amount for a reverse phone lookup on the sub-agent but the information is not useful. It has an address listed but the address is not valid and the name does not seem correct. I also called the PPH website and the GM is now ducking my calls and I talked to a different customer service person and asked why it said my account was inactive. She said the agent made my account inactive. I asked if any of the other accounts for this agent were inactive and she said no. The PPH customer service person said is one of our biggest agents and he has many accounts and they are all active. So I is obvious that the PPH website lied to me last week when they said they closed all the agents accounts down until he paid me. I believe the sub-agent is still is town and did not run away with the master agents money but is just screwing me since he knows I have no information about him. I'm guessing the master agent and sub-agent both know about this and just decided to cheat me out of the money to save them both some cash. Not sure what to do next?

[jjgold]

Most bookies will not pay you when you hit big

The best thing to do is tape everything and turn them into the FBI

[cincy]

I usually bet 2 dimes a game and won about $10k overall. I really didn't think $5k was a large amount for my sub-agent. I think the sub-agent has a big list of clients because he once showed me his agent report with a list of over 100 clients that he had to collect from and said many were slow paying him and that is why he clamied he was late when he paid me last time. I think my sub-agent does this full time because I was able to call him and meet up with him for pay/collects during work hours. I do have some recorded phone messages that he left on my cell two months ago. How do I go about turning the dude over to the FBI?

[Easy-Rider 66]

^ Would not recommend getting law enforcement involved. You might not know who you are dealing with.

[increasedodds]

It's all about trust - once you get a good one or two or three treat them like gold.

-105 lines, Pinny limits, etc.. It's all available if you find the right guys and treat them well

[cincy]

I always pay immediately whenever I am down. I inform books when they post a bad error line. I pick my own games and do not try to play steam games. But none of this seems to matter much. If I win too much they try to cheat me.

[Frogger]

Most bookies will not pay you when you hit big

The best thing to do is tape everything and turn them into the FBI

LOL ... made me laugh.

[offshoreguy]

I complained about this to the GM at the pay per head website and he called the master agent for my account and the master agent said my account was part of a package where a sub-agent does the pay and collects.

Sounds to me like the Master Agent was just renting out the pph software to the sub agent aka he had no stake in the wins/losses of the group. This is actually quite common as more and more people are getting an earn off pph agent headcounts as opposed to profit sharing.

[frogsrangers]

Why the hell was this thread resurrected?

[InsiderHer]

This might be the dumbest post I've seen in awhile. Of course most pay per head sites don't screw players. They write bookies business not book players. Thousands and thousands of bookies would never allow a sub agent to get away with stiffing. The pay per head company has no responsibility nor obligations to the players. Saying that, most legitimate pay per head shops will send the agent packing for stiffing a player. I feel bad for you. Now you know what its like to be a bookie.

[Minnesota Niice]

This might be the dumbest post I've seen in awhile. Of course most pay per head sites don't screw players. They write bookies business not book players. Thousands and thousands of bookies would never allow a sub agent to get away with stiffing. The pay per head company has no responsibility nor obligations to the players. Saying that, most legitimate pay per head shops will send the agent packing for stiffing a player. I feel bad for you. Now you know what its like to be a bookie.

This might be the dumbest post I've seen in awhile... Thread started 6-10-12

[touchback]

NO... PPH do not screw players... locals screw players. Get it right... locals use PPHs but in the end the local handles the money. Some PPHs will turn off an agent or throw them out for stiffing but that is the exception not the norm or rule...