Are all of our Congress men and women idiots???

[Dbldown11]

They almost unanimously vote to condemn the way the Iranian government is treating the protestors....The only dissenting vote was Ron Paul.

Really? That's what they spent their time doing? When one it means nothing...and two it's the completely wrong solution.

They want to President to speak out about this? They want the President to be seen as meddling in Iranian political affairs (which we have no say over...and review what happend in Iraq, North Korea, and Vietnam for what happens when you do that).

If the president did that the government would still crackdown on the people...probably kill thousands of future protestors, and claim that the reform candidate is an American Puppet and essentially squash any chance of an actual resolution. Lets be clear. The Iranian government is FULLY aware that we do not currently have the military capabilities to back up anything we say right now. So they will still squash the revolution and our relations will worsen.

Even if we werent spread horribly thin militarily it would be a bad idea because any military action would also make the problem way worse. Revolutions have to come from within. if we are aggressors they will eventually unite against us because we will never leave (just like Iraq, even though they loved us at first). If they start an actual revolution and request our assistance that's one thing.

Not to mention if we had protests this size and for this long anywhere in this country there would be many more shootings I'd wager than there have been in Iran. Let's not kid ourselves our country has a horrible record with dealing with protests that even become remotely aggressive....as soon as the permit expires arrests are made.

SO **** CONGRESS

[Dbldown11]

Alright I know it's a gambling forum....but doesn anyone have an opinion...agree? disagree. I could use a good healthy debate

[Emily_Haines]

I agree the US needs to STFU when it comes to international affairs.

[Dbldown11]

Check the news tomorrow at 10:00am EST. Iran very well may be on fire in all out protests and violence against them.

If the Iranian government doesn't choose to attack the protestors the President played his cards absolutely perfectly. If they do attack it may just cause a completely rovolution....Exciting times

[Dbldown11]

I get the feeling the citizens are starting to realize they have zero say in what their government does over there. They held on to a slite belief they had some say when they got to elect their "president" also known as a puppet for the Ayotollah. But know they see they don't even get to pick their own puppets and very well may be showing no confidence in their government

[TheIntegrityKid]

well said dd11....

we need to keep quiet our disputes with international elections and instead work in the shadows to try and bring change

[Dbldown11]

The thing that annoys me the most is that all these old white politicians clamoring that the president needs to speak out against these attrocities are all wrong. It's actions like that they the middle east is a hotbed for american hatred (aside from the countries we give billions to and keep afloat). Us sticking are nose into their business will make things work.

The president isn't being weak he's being smart. He's not trying to show the world how big his balls are...he's using his ****ing head. And that is what we need in times like these. For people that say he is weak and is going to let Iran and North Korea get nukes and kill us......all I can say is you have no brain. Just because he doesnt flex his muscles constantly doesnt mean he's weak. It means instead of being a dumb jock that thinks to show his strength with constant physical force...he is using his brain as initial actions and will use military force when necessary IE: AFGHANISTAN...

ok sorry enough of this. I just smoked a bowl and thinking about this all way too much ahahaha

[TheIntegrityKid]

well one good thing came out of this...

we know dd11 likes to toke up and let loose with the words lol

[wtf]

this is what EXACTLY the cia is SUPPOSED TO BE FOR

who knows what they do now

[Dbldown11]

the CIA overthrowing a government in Iran is exactly what started their hatred for the US....

[wtf]

well the cia is supposed to operate covertly , meaning nobody knows

as in supporting this amazing movement in iran, just an amazing opportunity for democracy

[DrStale]

Its a good resume builder for their reelection campaigns. I would never go so far as to say that the US should stay out of international affairs, in fact as one of the strongest countries in the world its their duty to have a role in the international process, but an ACTUAL role, not meaningless legislation that pisses off anyone with a brain and only only looks good to those who have absolutely no idea what the actual state of the world is and who's extent of knowledge of politics is "Go America"

[DwightShrute]

Obama should express how he feels rather than saying nothing IMO

Remember when Reagan said "tear down the wall" ?

no guts no glory

[Dbldown11]

WTF: I agree, and in the past it could work...but our CIA is pretty useless know and doesnt function well. They wouldn't pull it off in secret as. Initially CIA was effective, until other countries started having intelligence agencies as effective as ours. Kind of like why the KJB...

I also agree Dr.Stale. But with out current military situations and responsibilities elswhere the Iran government knows theres know Iron fist behind any words we say so it's not going to quite as intimidating as. "Gorbachav (horrible spelling) tear down that wall"

[Dbldown11]

DwightShrute: the president is saying how he feels. He said that the world was watching, and he believes citizens of all countries should be able to protest peacefully. He's just not going as far as to say the leaders rigged an election and have let the revolutionary leader lead. (plus the president understands that regardless of who the president of Iran is, the real person in power currently is the Ayotollah, so for anything to actually change there has to be a complete rovolution, which we can't really assist right now)

[DwightShrute]

Is he really saying how he feels? or is he saying the "politically correct" thing?

[Dbldown11]

well DwightShrute I'll let you determine what is the "politically correct" thing. The vote in congress was like 402-1 in favor of this "condemnation"

[reno cool]

Somebody's stirring up tension over there. What's the disagreement about? CIA involved? And how do these idiots vote 402-1 on something?

[DwightShrute]

I would just have Obama state publicly that this election was Bullshit and the people deserve a fee election. Rather than pussy footing around.

[Dbldown11]

Dwight that's the whole point....

saying that will look like U.S. involvement and will make it look like we are in control of the movement and it will lose steam. Right now the movement is real, and the citizens are making their voices heard. If Obama says anything remotely close to that it will drown out those voices

[Dbldown11]

Not to mention that we don't have the military power right now to back any kind of words like that up...so they know its an empty statement with no backbone

[pavyracer]

Noone cares about Persians. Alexander should have killed them all when he had a chance instead of trying to civilize them. They are animals.

[Dbldown11]

....i guess that's one opinion pavy

[DwightShrute]

What I am saying is not only Obama should voice their true feeling, but all leaders from all different countries should. Support the Iranian people IMO

Demand free elections

[Dbldown11]

if it was a worldwide effort you could be right...but in general I think revolutions that actually stick are ones that the people start themselves. And once they start the revolution then other countries can come in and assist. I think the success rate would be higher than if we said things to instigate the revolution. I think it sizzles when outsiders get too involved

[pavyracer]

[DwightShrute]

The supreme leader is already calling for the death to America today (again)

we should publicly support and state that we support freedom, democracy, free elections and demand that Iran supports the will of its people rather than pussy foot. Call his buddies from other countries and ask them to support the Iranian people for their quest for choosing their own government rather than adhere to radical Islam ruler and dictators.

Have some balls and stand together as one.


IMO

[Dbldown11]

It's in the initial stages. At this point it's still too early, you have to let their "process" (however fake and rigged it may be) take place before getting involved or it seems as though we are trying to force their hand. If they citizens keep up these protests and the Iranian government uses violence then the president should speak out.

The reason it's a big deal for the president (and other countries) to not get involved is because the Supreme leader gave his speach today saying any further protestors will be met with violence basically, and he told them these protests must stop.

So if tomorrow the citizens come out and protest they are showing they are for real because they are going against direct orders from their supreme leader. Then it would be a better time for us to support.

[DwightShrute]

we basically agree then. I believe that 7 people have been killed already. The world should unite as one loud voice that the Iranians should hear loud and clear. Let all those who protest in the streets understand their voices are being heard. It's the leaders of the USA, Canada, and European leaders who need to publicly voice their support on behalf of all of us who are lucky enough to live in a democracy. Be proactive rather than reactive. Stand up for what it right no matter the perceived consequences. Principals are everything. This could be a huge tipping point and I don't want us to blow it.

[Dbldown11]

That's where we disagree Dwight....Us getting involved and "speaking our feelings" is exactly what will make us blow it in out mind.

The US in not liked in Iran, and hasn't been for a while. It appears that may be changing slightly at a grass roots level. If we get involved that's what's going to **** everything. The whole reason Iranians have hated us for so long (and why they chanted "Death to America" today) is because of all the times we have meddled in their politics before.

The Iranians know their voices are being heard....Why do you think Twitter and the internet is playing such a big role. Technology is playing a huge part in this. In the past the President may have had to say something so it makes the news and the people of Iran hear support. But they are hearing support and know they have support through twitter and other technologies.

And finally I pointed out anything we say is without any backbone as the Iranian leaders know we can use zero force to back up what we say. (our military is not in the best of conditions currently) And whether we say it ourselves or Canada and European Countries say it with us, who is going to have to provide the force if it comes down to it? We will because the other countries support us in speach, but when it comes to using their own forces they will back away faster than the Italian president will bang his friends 18 year old daughter.

[DwightShrute]

Contrary to popular belief, Iranians don't hate the US but rather that same old Islam radial government that has been in place forever does. I hear that something like 60% of the Iranian population is under 30 years old and have fought to have their voices heard through the internet like you correctly stated. Obama campaigned on CHANGE and now when the Iranians are taking a brave stance against their dictatorship with a week long protest with no signs of giving up, A CHANGE for their squashed rights and freedom of speech over the decades, they could use our support more than any time in history. If not now, then when? The Iranian people voted for change and show that they believe in democracy as we do. Let's stand with them when they can use all the support now more than any other time in history.

For all those that smuggle out pictures to the rest of the world, for those that protest for the last week and for those who only want the freedom to choose their elected government. Let's say enough is enough with these dictators and lets support the people and the voice.

Doing the right thing is just that! Stand up and for them with our unconditional support no matter what the consequences may be.

Right is right.

IMO

[reno cool]

as for Iran, mind your own business. How the **** are we supposed to know what side what people are on? The US is no friend to "the people" anyway. Until we change that here we can shut the **** up about other places.

[Dbldown11]

I agree with the philosophy Dwight, however in reality the "change" that they voted for is still fairly extreme by out standards. It's not like the Iranians tried to elect Ghandi and this revolution is what has followed.

And again I state that if we do get involved and some sort of revolution is attempted where are we going to get the military force to assist in the revolution?

If you recall when the first Bush tried "speaking his feelings" and telling the Iraqi's to rise against Sadaam Hussein, and then did not assist with actual force. This resulted in MASS KILLINGS of 10's of thousands. Talk is good, but only if you can back it up. And since we currently cannot back it up it will only do harm

[DwightShrute]

as for Iran, mind your own business. How the **** are we supposed to know what side what people are on? The US is no friend to "the people" anyway. Until we change that here we can shut the **** up about other places.

wow!

we agree to disagree

[DwightShrute]

I agree with the philosophy Dwight, however in reality the "change" that they voted for is still fairly extreme by out standards. It's not like the Iranians tried to elect Ghandi and this revolution is what has followed.

And again I state that if we do get involved and some sort of revolution is attempted where are we going to get the military force to assist in the revolution?

If you recall when the first Bush tried "speaking his feelings" and telling the Iraqi's to rise against Sadaam Hussein, and then did not assist with actual force. This resulted in MASS KILLINGS of 10's of thousands. Talk is good, but only if you can back it up. And since we currently cannot back it up it will only do harm

again, we basically agree. I feel there is nothing wrong with publicly voicing our support for free elections and thus for the people of Iran is all.

Cheers and good debate