Stock Market Discussion -- started 03/06/2018 -- updated daily !!!

**navyblue81** · 07-03-20, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

I'm on Idex partly because of this forum, wish I never stepped in here now lol. It's ok though. I will ride it out. 1.50 is too cheap for this stock. Should be about a $5-8 stock. Honestly don't see it going into the high DD though like some. But think it's undervalued right now considering who's behind it.

Well I bought it at 1.18 two weeks ago and rode it to 3.98. My mistake is I held onto it. I do believe it would be in the 3s and 4s if not for the Hindenburg crap. He destroyed that stock. I finally just took whatever profits I got out of it at just 2 which sadly didn’t turn out to be as much as it should have been. But I broke the golden rule of penny stocks which is not to hold onto it after you got one day of big profits.

**Slurry Pumper** · 07-03-20, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

are you telling me that someone might be upset when they owe $4000 at the end of the year?

Lets see, $1300 a week for 13 weeks so far + a 50+% gain in the stock market to the tune of almost 100K - 2 months of payroll participation on a $125K salary. All in just 6 months so far. If this continues, I suspect that I actually jump in tax brackets at least one level and probably have to write a check in excess of $20K next April. Ouch.

Even in a normal year I typically have to write a check for the stock market gains that approaches $3k - $5K so this year will just be shitload more.

**allabout the $$$** · 07-03-20, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

Sorry, just going by what I heard from someone else, not getting it myself. I think you can withhold some taxes as you get unemployment, but not sure.

you can withhold the taxes like unemployment

**milwaukee mike** · 07-03-20, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

Sorry, just going by what I heard from someone else, not getting it myself. I think you can withhold some taxes as you get unemployment, but not sure.

no worries... i think that is the problem though, to a lot of people it's "free money" and they will have a rude awakening when filing the 2020 taxes

**milwaukee mike** · 07-03-20, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Slurry Pumper

Lets see, $1300 a week for 13 weeks so far + a 50+% gain in the stock market to the tune of almost 100K - 2 months of payroll participation on a $125K salary. All in just 6 months so far. If this continues, I suspect that I actually jump in tax brackets at least one level and probably have to write a check in excess of $20K next April. Ouch.

Even in a normal year I typically have to write a check for the stock market gains that approaches $3k - $5K so this year will just be shitload more.

good stuff... i don't mind paying taxes on stock market gains, the alternative is worse!

heck of a year financially for me as well, even though my business is essentially destroyed

**Slurry Pumper** · 07-03-20, 11:26 AM

A shortened week in da markets this week and we saw a return to the upper limits of the trading range we have been in since a few Mondays ago. Lets go to the positions and see how I faired:

Closed Positions:

This week I closed 1 position in PFE when they announced they had some vaccines they would like to test. Actually the stock gapped up and took out my stop price and I got dog styled in all reality. Then as confirmation of a weak stock that deserves to be shorted, the stock didn't do shit. I was really about to set a trailing stop for this one and start exiting but I was able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and ended up losing $3400 on the deal.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR	END SHARES	END BUY/SELL PRICE	END GAIN/LOSS	END % GAIN/LOSS	TOTAL GAIN/LOSS	TOTAL % GAIN/LOSS
06/24/20	10.38.36	PFE	-1000	32.41		33.27					1000	34.50	-2,090.00	-6.45%	-2,090.00	-6.45%
06/26/20	13.51.52	PFE	-500	31.86		33.27					500	34.50	-1,320.00	-8.29%	-1,320.00	-8.29%

Open Long Positions Older Than a Week:

AU has been treading water and consolidating with a sideways move for a couple of weeks now. If it can break out and get above $31, I may add to the position. As it is so far I'm down 5 bucks.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
06/24/20	15.18.46	AU	100	28.17	2,817.00	26.76	-141.00	-5.01%	28.98	81.00
06/30/20	11.09.53	AU	200	29.41	5,882.00	26.76	-530.00	-9.01%	28.98	-86.00

AUY is another gold mining stock that I am waiting on, if this one gets above $5.67 I may also add to this position.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
06/24/20	15.16.25	AUY	500	5.11	2,555.00	4.85	-130.00	-5.09%	5.35	120.00

GDX is another gold miner that I am waiting on also. I'm adding to this one at $37.57 for another 100 shares.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
06/24/20	15.57.34	GDX	70	34.70	2,429.00	32.97	-121.10	-4.99%	36.17	102.90

GLD is the last of the gold stock that I have for at least a week. This one is just waiting for something to happen so we'll just wait and see.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
06/24/20	15.23.14	GLD	15	166.09	2,491.35	157.79	-124.50	-5.00%	166.98	13.35

New Opened Long Positions This Week:

KL is yet another gold stock that I started a position on this week and if it can make it to 44.47, I'll add another 100 shares. Can you tell that I'm liking the gold stocks for the future.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
07/02/20	11.14.12	KL	50	41.81	2,090.50	40.31	-75.00	-3.59%	41.68	-6.50

LLNW is a stock I got off the SBR stock market thread. I like it because the stochastic trend has a wide separation and is in an up trend for the long term. It did run up from around 5 bucks a few weeks ago, but it has been consolidating since which in my mind is just a stock that is ready to pop. If it can take out 8.25, I'll add another 100 shares. Actually I plan on adding another 100 shares every time it reaches a new high.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
07/02/20	07.45.52	LLNW	100	7.55	755.00	7.01	-54.00	-7.15%	7.78	23.00

Open Short Positions Older Than a Week:

AXP is starting to work for me so we will just wait until it gets to 91.85 and add another 100 shares to the short.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
06/24/20	10.55.15	AXP	-100	96.93	9,693.00	101.95	-502.00	-5.18%	94.30	263.00

KBE is a banking stock that I think had a little fed boost this week so it has been moving against me so far, but I think the banks are in more trouble than they are telling everyone, so I'll let this on go and if it moves in my direction and gets below 29.35, I'm hitting it for another 500 shares.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
06/26/20	11.11.58	KBE	-500	29.75	14,875.00	33.81	-2,030.00	-13.65%	30.27	-260.00

XLF is the financial ETF that is really weak even with the help of the Fed. When it gets below 22.37, I'm hitting it with another 1000 shares.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
06/24/20	14.15.51	XLF	-500	23.06	11,531.00	23.79	-364.00	-3.16%	22.98	41.00
06/26/20	11.10.22	XLF	-1000	22.79	22,790.00	23.79	-1,000.00	-4.39%	22.98	-190.00

T is a stock that has moved against me this week so we'll see if I get stopped out of this one or not. I will add to the short for another 500 shares if it gets down below 28.81.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
06/24/20	11.03.47	T	-500	29.43	14,715.00	30.87	-720.00	-4.89%	30.09	-330.00

MCD is just waffling around lately so we'll wait for this one as well to get below 177.03 to add for another 50 shares.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
06/24/20	10.44.59	MCD	-50	182.00	9,100.00	189.85	-392.50	-4.31%	183.52	-76.00

LMT had a pretty up and down week piggybacking off of Boeing's announcement on the way up then reality set in and it continued the march down. I'll add to this one below 350.23 for another 100 shares.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
06/24/20	14.14.54	LMT	-100	360.10	36,010.00	379.25	-1,915.00	-5.32%	361.84	-174.00

SLB is working for me and so this week is the week I expect it to move substantially but we never know. If it goes below 17.01, I'll hit it for another 500 shares.

DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR
06/24/20	11.00.59	SLB	-500	18.60	9,300.00	19.31	-355.00	-3.82%	17.98	310.00
06/26/20	14.00.39	SLB	-500	17.58	8,790.00	19.31	-865.00	-9.84%	17.98	-200.00

Here is the complete list along with the totals at the top tabulated since 6-24-20.

					155,823.85		-9,319.10			-368.25					-3,410.00
STOCKS
DATE	TIME	STOCK TICKER	SHARES	BEGIN BUY/SELL PRICE	TOTAL IN PLAY	SET STOP LOSS PRICE	ALLOWABLE LOSS TOTAL	ALLOW LOSS % TOTAL	TODAY'S CLOSE/END PRICE	GAIN/LOSS SO FAR	END SHARES	END BUY/SELL PRICE	END GAIN/LOSS	END % GAIN/LOSS	TOTAL GAIN/LOSS	TOTAL % GAIN/LOSS	PARTIAL 1 SHARES	PARTIAL 1 BUY/SELL PRICE	PARTIAL 1 GAIN/LOSS	PARTIAL 1 % GAIN/LOSS	PARTIAL 2 SHARES	PARTIAL 2 BUY/SELL PRICE	PARTIAL 2 GAIN/LOSS	PARTIAL 2 % GAIN/LOSS	PARTIAL 3 SHARES	PARTIAL 3 BUY/SELL PRICE	PARTIAL 3 GAIN/LOSS	PARTIAL 3 % GAIN/LOSS
06/24/20	10.38.36	PFE	-1000	32.41		33.27					1000	34.50	-2,090.00	-6.45%	-2,090.00	-6.45%
06/24/20	10.44.59	MCD	-50	182.00	9,100.00	189.85	-392.50	-4.31%	183.52	-76.00
06/24/20	10.55.15	AXP	-100	96.93	9,693.00	101.95	-502.00	-5.18%	94.30	263.00
06/24/20	11.00.59	SLB	-500	18.60	9,300.00	19.31	-355.00	-3.82%	17.98	310.00
06/24/20	11.03.47	T	-500	29.43	14,715.00	30.87	-720.00	-4.89%	30.09	-330.00
06/24/20	14.14.54	LMT	-100	360.10	36,010.00	379.25	-1,915.00	-5.32%	361.84	-174.00
06/24/20	14.15.51	XLF	-500	23.06	11,531.00	23.79	-364.00	-3.16%	22.98	41.00
06/24/20	15.16.25	AUY	500	5.11	2,555.00	4.85	-130.00	-5.09%	5.35	120.00
06/24/20	15.18.46	AU	100	28.17	2,817.00	26.76	-141.00	-5.01%	28.98	81.00
06/24/20	15.23.14	GLD	15	166.09	2,491.35	157.79	-124.50	-5.00%	166.98	13.35
06/24/20	15.57.34	GDX	70	34.70	2,429.00	32.97	-121.10	-4.99%	36.17	102.90
06/26/20	11.10.22	XLF	-1000	22.79	22,790.00	23.79	-1,000.00	-4.39%	22.98	-190.00
06/26/20	11.11.58	KBE	-500	29.75	14,875.00	33.81	-2,030.00	-13.65%	30.27	-260.00
06/26/20	13.51.52	PFE	-500	31.86		33.27					500	34.50	-1,320.00	-8.29%	-1,320.00	-8.29%
06/26/20	14.00.39	SLB	-500	17.58	8,790.00	19.31	-865.00	-9.84%	17.98	-200.00
06/30/20	11.09.53	AU	200	29.41	5,882.00	26.76	-530.00	-9.01%	28.98	-86.00
07/02/20	07.45.52	LLNW	100	7.55	755.00	7.01	-54.00	-7.15%	7.78	23.00
07/02/20	11.14.12	KL	50	41.81	2,090.50	40.31	-75.00	-3.59%	41.68	-6.50

**Slurry Pumper** · 07-03-20, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

no worries... i think that is the problem though, to a lot of people it's "free money" and they will have a rude awakening when filing the 2020 taxes

Yeah you can withhold taxes if you'd like, most don't. I probably should, but I know that the market gains are going to be a blowout year however, and I actually signed up for unemployment before the feds kicked in the extra $600, and at that time I thought the more hoarding of cash the better.

**Snowball** · 07-03-20, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by KVB

Good timing on our discussion Snowy.

Dow lost 200 points since then.

yeah, but I didn't sell the puts

so I'm still biting nails for Monday

**Madison** · 07-03-20, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

are you telling me that someone might be upset when they owe $4000 at the end of the year?

You understand.

**Madison** · 07-03-20, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Slurry Pumper

Lets see, $1300 a week for 13 weeks so far + a 50+% gain in the stock market to the tune of almost 100K - 2 months of payroll participation on a $125K salary. All in just 6 months so far. If this continues, I suspect that I actually jump in tax brackets at least one level and probably have to write a check in excess of $20K next April. Ouch.

Even in a normal year I typically have to write a check for the stock market gains that approaches $3k - $5K so this year will just be shitload more.

Yes, and beware of your 401K post earlier. I have majority of mine in tax free retirement iRA. Penalties with withdrawals before 59.5 and taxation thereafter. Do your research. I spend hours trying to figure out how to earn and avoid taxation.

**Madison** · 07-03-20, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

no worries... i think that is the problem though, to a lot of people it's "free money" and they will have a rude awakening when filing the 2020 taxes

Yes, as previously quoted.

**Madison** · 07-03-20, 01:29 PM

Does anyone understand this "Quantum Glass" battery hype?? I'm relatively weighted in Lithium and they are hyping against it as a replacement albeit a ways away.

**milwaukee mike** · 07-03-20, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Madison

Yes, and beware of your 401K post earlier. I have majority of mine in tax free retirement iRA. Penalties with withdrawals before 59.5 and taxation thereafter. Do your research. I spend hours trying to figure out how to earn and avoid taxation.

for 2020 only... there is a waiving of the 10% early withdrawal penalty

so anyone with no income/low income in 2020 might want to take out a chunk

**Slurry Pumper** · 07-03-20, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Madison

Yes, and beware of your 401K post earlier. I have majority of mine in tax free retirement iRA. Penalties with withdrawals before 59.5 and taxation thereafter. Do your research. I spend hours trying to figure out how to earn and avoid taxation.

I haven't as of yet spent any time looking for legal ways to avoid the tax man. In the 401K field, I only put in enough to match the employer match. I've done that for the last 20 years now and I would love to not be in a 401K but the free match money is why I do it. A 401K is the biggest scam out there because the churning fees will kill your return and they don't short. So for this year, everyone is just now getting back to where they were in the beginning of March why just about every trader is up a good 50%.

This may be the year for me to take the money out of the 401K. It is a very substantial amount and even with the tax hit, I think I can make more gains than the tax bracket it might put me in this year. Later before Christmas I'll have to run the numbers and see if I can swing it without going into a 30% tax bracket.

**clockwise1965** · 07-04-20, 01:50 AM

Never take money from your 401k. Huge tax liability

**milwaukee mike** · 07-04-20, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by clockwise1965

Never take money from your 401k. Huge tax liability

i wouldn't say never

if someone has no income in 2020, they can take at least $12,000 totally tax free and penalty free

**d2bets** · 07-04-20, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

for 2020 only... there is a waiving of the 10% early withdrawal penalty

so anyone with no income/low income in 2020 might want to take out a chunk

True if you are affected by covid, either by having the virus or by lost job/income. And then I believe you can even spread the tax over 3 years and/or pay it back tax/penalty free. It's a pretty damn good deal if you do need it.

**navyblue81** · 07-04-20, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by d2bets

True if you are affected by covid, either by having the virus or by lost job/income. And then I believe you can even spread the tax over 3 years and/or pay it back tax/penalty free. It's a pretty damn good deal if you do need it.

It depends the kind of 401k and if it's a growth one or not. Let's say you have $10k in your 401K, they take 20% out for taxes, so you get a check for $8k. It's a non-growth 401k. You invest that $8k into a company like TTD or MFST that grows some 100% in five years. Then you're up to $16k. I did something like that from my first job back when I was in my 20s before I got in the Navy. I had to take a 20% hit to take the money out but ended up gaining three times as much as was in there.

**trobin31** · 07-04-20, 10:45 PM

Last week

took long positions premarket Monday on NextEra, Fastly, NVDA
added positions to DocuSign, Facebook & Alibaba

took mid to long positions:
Kopin, Limelight, LQDT

swing plays
UVXY

sold off 2/3 of NKLA

last week I think you could have closed your eyes and picked a winner as long as wasn’t spac, banks or airlines.

Starting to look really closely at Value plays In retail and travel, doesn’t feel like even with covid cases increasing anyone is willing to risk statewide closures, so, look for value plays. Companies with decent balance sheets and undervalued who I think don’t go bankrupt-> Macy’s and Nordstrom’s

south american breweries AMBEV, I am buying at **pre-market Monday.

bought UVXY on thursday and expecting to turn profit on a down day by Wednesday or Thursday.

Happy 4th!!

**Goat Milk** · 07-05-20, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by trobin31

Last week

took long positions premarket Monday on NextEra, Fastly, NVDA
added positions to DocuSign, Facebook & Alibaba

took mid to long positions:
Kopin, Limelight, LQDT

swing plays
UVXY

sold off 2/3 of NKLA

last week I think you could have closed your eyes and picked a winner as long as wasn’t spac, banks or airlines.

Starting to look really closely at Value plays In retail and travel, doesn’t feel like even with covid cases increasing anyone is willing to risk statewide closures, so, look for value plays. Companies with decent balance sheets and undervalued who I think don’t go bankrupt-> Macy’s and Nordstrom’s

south american breweries AMBEV, I am buying at **pre-market Monday.

bought UVXY on thursday and expecting to turn profit on a down day by Wednesday or Thursday.

Happy 4th!!

Why not Baidu instead of alibaba? Think tech companies like that are more valuable. Billions being poured into research.

**trobin31** · 07-05-20, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

Why not Baidu instead of alibaba? Think tech companies like that are more valuable. Billions being poured into research.

Definetly not trying to be overextended in Chinese market, I own Alibaba because their core business is online commerce. I do believe China is about to have a very significant economic growth ahead. I also like emerging Asian markets

**Iona** · 07-05-20, 09:10 AM

**d2bets** · 07-05-20, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by navyblue81

It depends the kind of 401k and if it's a growth one or not. Let's say you have $10k in your 401K, they take 20% out for taxes, so you get a check for $8k. It's a non-growth 401k. You invest that $8k into a company like TTD or MFST that grows some 100% in five years. Then you're up to $16k. I did something like that from my first job back when I was in my 20s before I got in the Navy. I had to take a 20% hit to take the money out but ended up gaining three times as much as was in there.

I'm talking about people who need it, meaning they need it to make ends meet - they aren't going to invest it in growth stocks. These people might be able to withdraw in the 12% tax bracket. It's replacement income. And hopefully they'll get back on their feet in future years and can maybe then withhold in a 401k for a deduction against a 28% marginal rate. That's pretty good arbitrage.

**Slurry Pumper** · 07-05-20, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

i wouldn't say never

if someone has no income in 2020, they can take at least $12,000 totally tax free and penalty free

401(k) Early Withdrawal: Penalties & Rules For Cashing Out - NerdWallet

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/investing/cashing-out-401k-covid-19/

I wouldn't say never also. As it turns out you can only access 100K, and you can take 3 years to repay if you wish and get a tax rebate for doing so or you can amortize the tax hit over 3 years. Also there are no withholding requirements.

So in fact I can take 100K out of the 401K right now and only pay tax of 1/3 of it next April 15. For someone who is expecting to just squeeze into the 22% tax bracket with just under $171K for the year, the tax for the next 10 months on the $33,333 is $7,334, but you get to utilize 100K in capital. That means all I need to do is make 8% to break even over the next 3 years. Then I would have the option to repay the amount loaned and get a tax refund for my efforts.

It all comes down to the market forecast. I don't see the markets making the blockbuster gains that it has over the last decade. Well not in the next 3 years anyway, and if it does, can I make 8% more than the 401K results? I think so, the 401K return is subdued with fees and restrictions that make a withdraw very appealing to those who think they can out perform the funds.

Even in the event that I don't outperform the 401K by 8%, I can always repay the funds pretty much penalty free and only have myself to blame for not producing the return that the 401K did. It all comes down to the bet of me performing better than the 401K. If past performance is any indicator which in reality it isn't, I like my odds with betting on myself.

I think if you're a person who has done well in the market with your own stock choices, this would be an appealing opportunity to utilize funds you normally wouldn't be able to do until your 60.

I'm gonna really think about it for a few more weeks but it doesn't sound like a terrible scenario.

**Madison** · 07-05-20, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Slurry Pumper

I haven't as of yet spent any time looking for legal ways to avoid the tax man. In the 401K field, I only put in enough to match the employer match. I've done that for the last 20 years now and I would love to not be in a 401K but the free match money is why I do it. A 401K is the biggest scam out there because the churning fees will kill your return and they don't short. So for this year, everyone is just now getting back to where they were in the beginning of March why just about every trader is up a good 50%.

This may be the year for me to take the money out of the 401K. It is a very substantial amount and even with the tax hit, I think I can make more gains than the tax bracket it might put me in this year. Later before Christmas I'll have to run the numbers and see if I can swing it without going into a 30% tax bracket.

Most 401k's are very restricting as far as your ability to trade. One advantage of transferring to a self managed retirement IRA is you can trade at will on most anything. I can buy / sell / short just about anything. I'd be wealthy now if I could have done that in 2008 but the majority of my $$ was tied up in company 401K with maybe 20 options none of which allowed shorting real estate. I traded my liquid assets and didn't understand short term gains. I did very well, until I realized my short term gain tax was like 48%. That hurt.

**Madison** · 07-05-20, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by clockwise1965

Never take money from your 401k. Huge tax liability

Not necessarily. It's all about timing. My taxable income is low so I'm dripping mine out slowly under my minimum tax bracket.

**Madison** · 07-05-20, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

i wouldn't say never

if someone has no income in 2020, they can take at least $12,000 totally tax free and penalty free

Exactly

**homie1975** · 07-05-20, 07:04 PM

It's early in the pre but we are in green.

**Madison** · 07-05-20, 10:51 PM

Fk, I need pill or something to fall asleep. LOL

**navyblue81** · 07-06-20, 07:25 AM

Wow AYRO

Lovin it.

**Snowball** · 07-06-20, 08:06 AM

They can bust through 4x resistance in the pre-market by pushing up S&P minis
and the crowds will chase. Most likely this market just. goes. higher. because Trump
and his Fed want it higher. Data, Covid, Foreign relations, none of that matters, and even
if Biden wins, JP Morgan says Wall Street is 'too negative' about a Biden win, so you see
the alt energy e-cars and things pertaining to Democrat plans going up also.

there might be some light selling along the way but it's decided, like before Covid...
markets only go higher until the next black swan event which could be a number of years away.

I will have to adjust which is ok. It is what it is. Trust them to take us to new highs.

**trobin31** · 07-06-20, 08:48 AM

Yeah just close your eyes and pick a stock, they only go up. Seems legit.

**Snowball** · 07-06-20, 08:59 AM

RAIL: this is my stock now. see why

_flipper_ (@_flipper_) | Stocktwits

https://stocktwits.com/_flipper_/message/225523036

Buffett owned BNSF is a customer of $RAIL... $CSX $NSC generalist buys will get back into Railroads for infrastructure.

**navyblue81** · 07-06-20, 10:00 AM

Angry I didn't put more into AYRO. Only put just over $100 worth in last week. Already up to $300 now. That thing is running and could be the next WKHS. Waiting for a damn dip so I could put more in but the thing just doesn't dip. Reminds me of WKHS last week. Just didn't dip.

**trobin31** · 07-06-20, 10:01 AM

Okay guys.

woke up late and missed the pre-market.

i bought

BLNK@6.2 Blink Charging stations, yet another way to buy EV as I am already overextended in the car manufacturers

SFTBY @27.4 Softbank Holdings. A Japanese holding company with a very large pot in TiKTok and DoorDash. Neither of these are public companies but obviously making a killing. So, this is how you can invest in them.
Here is a full list of their investments. https://www.cbinsights.com/research-...stment-tracker