Funny how it seems what the book needs, the book gets.

[ELNATURAL]

Illegal hands to face.
Pass interference.

All calls which favour a team dramatically one way or another

Anytime a team has a reset of downs it gives them more of a chance

However these calls are legit most times , sometimes they are phantom calls but no one really cares but the bettor.

Did you guys witness the call on Denver Von miller which pretty much sealed the game for the bills yesterday ? Incredible

[StackinGreen]

Illegal hands to face.
Pass interference.

All calls which favour a team dramatically one way or another

Anytime a team has a reset of downs it gives them more of a chance

However these calls are legit most times , sometimes they are phantom calls but no one really cares but the bettor.

Did you guys witness the call on Denver Von miller which pretty much sealed the game for the bills yesterday ? Incredible

On the one hand, name any fix that you have evidence for. Like every other conspiracy theory, I expect to hear crickets and then a lot of protesting and personal insult. So standard.

On the other hand, it seems like all the complainers around here are always on the side that gets fukked Shouldn't it even out in the end? Why don't people post more saying something like "Man, I skanked that one, I should have never won." Because it proves the point.

What's more likely? 99% of the gamblers here complaining are big lifetime losers or that the game was fixed?

Only an idiot says the latter. Interesting how that works out.

[funnyb25]

[Ryermkd]

Great thread.

[Ryermkd]

On the one hand, name any fix that you have evidence for. Like every other conspiracy theory, I expect to hear crickets and then a lot of protesting and personal insult. So standard.

On the other hand, it seems like all the complainers around here are always on the side that gets fukked Shouldn't it even out in the end? Why don't people post more saying something like "Man, I skanked that one, I should have never won." Because it proves the point.

What's more likely? 99% of the gamblers here complaining are big lifetime losers or that the game was fixed?

Only an idiot says the latter. Interesting how that works out.

Bettors fault if you lose, irregardless if it's fixed or not. Don't act like it doesn't happen though...
Rams v 49ers seemed fishy to me, and look at poor Detroit... total job and a half....
I had no action on the latter as well, just an honest opinion.

[StackinGreen]

Detroit unfortunate, but it was the right application of more bad rules. A fix is intentionally disregarding the rules. Games ending strangely with bad rules is the ... GAME. NOT A FIX

[ELNATURAL]

On the one hand, name any fix that you have evidence for. Like every other conspiracy theory, I expect to hear crickets and then a lot of protesting and personal insult. So standard.

On the other hand, it seems like all the complainers around here are always on the side that gets fukked Shouldn't it even out in the end? Why don't people post more saying something like "Man, I skanked that one, I should have never won." Because it proves the point.

What's more likely? 99% of the gamblers here complaining are big lifetime losers or that the game was fixed?

Only an idiot says the latter. Interesting how that works out.

Ok so I'm complaining ? I really could care less about anyone else. Why you fantasize about other people and their bs is your own fault.

I'm not going to go into this any further like I posted before - it's really a waste of my time and yours to prove a game was fixed or not. It's up to you on what you believe in so I honestly don't need to convince you or prove anything to you.

I have no problem with gambling. Just be smart about it - that's all ... but you already know that.

[High3rEl3m3nt]

There's definitely been cases of points shaving---I remember that the Hawaii's college football team being investigated for point shaving not all that long ago.

[Git Lo]

Haven't read this post. There's a lot of former bookmakers and current bookmakers, as well as much sharper gamblers as a whole, that post elsewhere and there's been many an interesting conversation/debate, much like what use to occur during SBR's early days. Justin7, before he went to work the other side, had a series of videos that are worth viewing which help to set the record.

I know a tout with a large following that could move the whole industry 1-2 points on game days. I tracked him, bet his plays, and followed the action on Don Best/ Sports Options. I think one difference between me and some is that I believe the whole market is an absolute joke and should be taken mostly with a grain of salt. Don't put the market on a pedestal. This guy had no model, but just watched NBA games from sun up to sun down and crossed all of his "t's" and dotted all of his "i's."

As for Bigdaddy, I've seen him post at various places over the years and he is a well known advantage gambler--a good one at that. I don't doubt what he says, but wonder whether what he is suggesting is a page out of old Vegas--new Vegas comes across as so corporatized and might create wiggle room for its whales, but I can't see them doing this consistently if they peg you as a sharp or if they continually get middled, as Bigdaddy says he was able to do. I can't see that kind of opportunity being sustained--does not seem to fit the current direction, but in the same breath, I can't say that I know 100% for certain either way.

The NBA is going to be on par with the NFL as far as fixing goes with all the best players becoming concentrated instead of spread out across all the teams. Just wait you will see starting this season too, be prepared to have your ass handed to you across a 82 game season.

And good call Eddy about the public having their shit pushed in last week on NFL, I'm pretty sure 90+% of favorites didn't cover the spread.

[StackinGreen]

I'll bite big daddy:

How much are you claiming the books allow their "whales" to bet on an opening line? I'll tell you out front I'm skeptical already for a lot of reasons, but I'll let you respond. I'm sure there are a few idiots betting huge sums, but mostly there aren't. If you gave me Vegas books opening lines for the next week on Sunday night (for example), I would KILL them long term. That's why I also would bring up the point I'm sure KVB has mentioned that's similar to this thread: It's not the "Vegas" number or "Vegas was right" it's ironically the betting public (money wise, not saying I don't fade that other "public") that has it right, they just move the lines. Another common misconception.

BigDaddy? Silence is an answer.

He never answered my question, High3r, because I'm quite sure he knows what you and I are saying is the reality. I think you are correct too that a lot has changed. I've been going to March Madness over the years (last 20) and not only has Vegas changed a ton, sometimes they would balk at me betting 4 figures on NCAA games. That was near game time. You think they're letting guys bet into them heavy before the market decides on a settled line? That's not how they work, they aren't proud or stupid enough to not know exactly what I said: GIVE ME THEIR OPENERS EVERY WEEK AND I KILL THEM. Apart from guys they know are long term losers and generally bad bettors, no way they let a guy bet Sunday evening or Monday night into 5 figures. No way.