Recently back from tours of Pinnacle and VIP. Thoughts:

[SBR_John]

Pinnacle has made big improvements in management recently. They continue to do a great job with payment solutions.

VIP still has the best managemnet team in the industry. Its the exact same team I met when I started in the business in the late 90's.

Both giants and both have a great product.

I would predict you will see these two companies work closely on some future projescts. It wouldnt be shock to see Pinnacle make a move for VIP to counter Bodog.

[Hoja Verdes]

good to hear.

[Yoshi]

Pinny eating VIP would be cool
John tell me 1 thing pls, if their management is that good...why is Nine such a shit book, and why does the VIP page suck for years now?

[SBR_John]

I forwarded the recent Nine thread to Alistair Assheton the managing director.

Truth is I dont know. Nine has got to improve. No ands ifs or buts.

The VIP software or home page? As we have reported they did buy their software company recently. It has gotten better but its not on the level of DGS (like CRIS) or ASI (like Pinnacle) obviously. Will it ever? I seriously doubt it. But it will continue to improve.

[EBone]

John, I don't mean to muddy up your thread but I do have a question regarding VIP:

do you think they have sold any customer lists to some, lets say, questionable online bookmakers? I am reminded to ask this because of your other thread about the spammer sportbooks. Two online sportsbooks: Royal and BetUS are constantly ragging me about signing up with them which I will not. The funny thing is: I have never inquired with either Royal or BetUS for anything. I am suspecting VIP as the culprit because of threads I have read on this site in the past.

Is this a possibility or fantasy?


E

[tacomax]

Is this a possibility or fantasy?

Do you think that one sportsbook will sell it's customer details to rival sportsbooks?

[jjgold]

Tech guys at books steal lists at VIP and then sell to posters so its not the book owners.

[ttmopp]

any pictures of the Pinnacle offices?

[TheGambler]

Hey Jon, I appreciate the info you provide regarding these 2 books. However, it gets very disappointing to hear all of these good things about VIP.com and yet I am not allowed to bet there. Basically, they have closed my account over the last couple of weeks b/c I won too much. I went on a winning streak, mainly playing Pags11 plays and a few first and 2nd halves on football. The majority of my money is at Pinny and Cris. It used to be with VIP simply b/c I trusted them more than anyone. I was always paid immediately with no questions asked. There were times when I lost several thousand to them and that seemed to be okay. I'm just curious what communications you guys have had with them regarding this reputation to shut off guys who win. You never hear such a thing from Pinny or Cris. If the management is so good, then why did the linesman Joe tell me I was a professional and I was taking them for bad lines. I can't help it that the line had been up all day and it was a point different than Pinny or Cris. I am the furthest thing from a professional. I mainly listen to a lot of guys on this forum and play their picks. I will try to handicap a few games but even at that I'm not real good. I am just curious to know how they respond when you ask them this question. I look at the monthly winners on VIP and see that some people take them for 50K. I have to assume they get shutoff immediately as well. LIke i said, I appreciate you providing this info but as a player, I like to keep my money where it is safe and I felt that VIP was number one in safety but now I can't play there. YOu will never see me posting something about some F rated book ripped me off b/c I only play at the ones you recommend. It just gets old hearing all this stuff about VIP and not being able to use them. Thanks Jon

[Yoshi]

Thanks John, i ment the Software for betting etc.
I dont even bother checking their lines coz of that.

[EBone]

Do you think that one sportsbook will sell it's customer details to rival sportsbooks?

taco,

To answer your question, yes, I do think a sportsbook would sell its customer details to a rival sportsbook if the selling sportsbook wanted that player out of their clientele or I suppose they could sell details about customers simply as another source of revenue. I guess I asked the question because I would hope that an A rated sportsbook like VIP would not do that. Maybe I'm just being naive. Having thought about it a little bit, my guess would be that VIP management, even if they were selling customer names, wouldn't tell John if they were or not. So maybe I have answered my own question.



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[tacomax]

To summarise your point of view:

1) You think they are doing it.

2) VIP wouldn't tell SBR_John if they were doing it.

Therefore, they must be doing it.

[wrongturn]

Don't know why Pinnacle needs to do something to counter Bodog. I would think it should be the other way around. But it seems they are both doing very well since they target different kind of players and different markets.

[Sam Odom]

Pinny = FAO Schwarz

VIP = Wal-mart

If they were toy stores

[EBone]

To summarise your point of view:

1) You think they are doing it.

2) VIP wouldn't tell SBR_John if they were doing it.

Therefore, they must be doing it.

I think I would change your wording above to "they must be doing it" to "they may be doing it". My original question was more to get a confirmation from a long-held suspicion. I do not know for a fact that they are doing it hence why I asked the question.


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[SBR_John]

TheGambler,
You cant compare a VIP to Pinnacle and vica-versa. Pinnacle, CRIS and Olympic are hard core bookmaking operations. Books like VIP and Bodog cater to the majority of players which are small. As many join VIP as Pinnacle because they have rules that benefit the small player. At Pinny you get a free payout only if its over $500, at VIP and Bodog its free. Thats just an example.

I was impressed at the moves Pinnacle is making. They were always great bookmakers with suspect mid-managers for operations. They have drastically improved in that area and players will see even more improvements soon.

At VIP, they are still absorbing Nine and still finishing with the remeants of being public and now being private again. They do have several aces up their sleeve and a decent size aquisition to announce shortly. They also have an excellent payment solution which Pinnacle is trying to work with them on.

[Yoshi]

At Pinny you get a free payout only if its over $500, at VIP and Bodog its free. Thats just an example.

That was changed months ago, its a free payout per month for any amount now.

Pinny is getting better and better, while VIP cant even create a software that is acceptable. Its not the same league, no matter what kind of people they target.

[BuddyBear]

John....how do u guys get to these places u visit? Do you fly or take boats out there?