Supreme Court accepts New Jersey sports betting case.

**TheGuesser** · 06-29-17, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by StackinGreen

New York can't run an OTB system with 15-25% vig but they can run a sports betting entity with around 10%?

PASPA is the most clearly unconstitutional law (that is well known) on the books. Whether state governments can produce a decent betting product is the more interesting question, indeed. Recall also that like in horses, federal taxes potentially become an issue, because when you cash, it's all tracked.

My hope is that the new market just makes everyone more competitive, including my local yokel.

They won't have to. They'll just license it and collect fees and taxes from those that already do, like William Hill, Betfair, Cantor gaming, Boyd, etc. . Just like Vegas. Independents will hopefully spring up, to keep things competitive.

**BrickJames** · 06-29-17, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by infamousbacardi

Doesn't make sense that some states can do it and others can't when the challenge brought by NJ is one of Federal Law. How can a Federal Law prevent one state from doing something and not another under same/similar grounds. I think NJ will likely win and industry is about to change forever.

Because Nevada is basically a federal state it's all federal land.

**jjgold** · 06-29-17, 08:07 AM

long way off still

if approved bolsters every gambling site in usa

**infamousbacardi** · 06-29-17, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by BrickJames

Because Nevada is basically a federal state it's all federal land.

It's a fair point, but "basically" and "actually" are a little different. It's still a state and the law is discriminatory for no other reason other than a "grandfathered" in clause...which I don't believe will go very far with the SCOTUS.

**Sam Odom** · 06-29-17, 11:46 AM

JJ

is this why you moved back to NJ ?

**StackinGreen** · 06-30-17, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by TheGuesser

They won't have to. They'll just license it and collect fees and taxes from those that already do, like William Hill, Betfair, Cantor gaming, Boyd, etc. . Just like Vegas. Independents will hopefully spring up, to keep things competitive.

Are you on record saying that state sponsored or licensed brokers will maintain a 10% vig and it'll just be [more] business as usual?

**Plaza23** · 06-30-17, 02:04 PM

All I want to do is gamble online with a reputable US casino. This will happen within 5 years. Then we will have competition between the off shores and US books all of which favor the gambler. More options, more competition, better product.

The offshores won't go out of business because many US gamblers still want the tax free hidden money they make there. US books will all pay taxes on winnings.

**jjgold** · 06-30-17, 02:49 PM

Well look at Las Vegas all the years they've been in business they couldn't dent offshore books

Five dimes is probably better than every Las Vegas book combined

Too much regulation is the main reason

**StackinGreen** · 06-30-17, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

long way off still

if approved bolsters every gambling site in usa

JJ does anyone actually make money in Vegas anymore? I heard maybe only the Palazzo .. or is all the money made now on Clubbing and Restaurants?

Originally posted by jjgold

Well look at Las Vegas all the years they've been in business they couldn't dent offshore books

Five dimes is probably better than every Las Vegas book combined

Too much regulation is the main reason

What're the top 1-2 regulations that hurt a Vegas book so much, Corbin?

**StackinGreen** · 06-30-17, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Plaza23

All I want to do is gamble online with a reputable US casino. This will happen within 5 years. Then we will have competition between the off shores and US books all of which favor the gambler. More options, more competition, better product.

The offshores won't go out of business because many US gamblers still want the tax free hidden money they make there. US books will all pay taxes on winnings.

I hope this happens too because then locals will also have more competition and betting tax and track free is much superior.

**jjgold** · 06-30-17, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by StackinGreen

JJ does anyone actually make money in Vegas anymore? I heard maybe only the Palazzo .. or is all the money made now on Clubbing and Restaurants?

What're the top 1-2 regulations that hurt a Vegas book so much, Corbin?

regulations of sports offered and bet offers is the killer

**Kaplan** · 07-02-17, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

The problem is even if it passes it's gonna keep getting challenged and never happen

How exactly are they going to challenge it ?

**jjgold** · 07-02-17, 07:23 AM

Kaplan I do not even care

I lived in Vegas and mainly played offshore

Bettor odds, live betting and much more bet offers

**StackinGreen** · 07-03-17, 09:50 AM

You mean better prices and crazy wagers? What other "bet offers"? Just pure number of bets they'll take action on?

**jjgold** · 07-03-17, 02:30 PM

Green ...offshore places just take way more action, higher limits earlier openers , tighter juice and way more sports

**StackinGreen** · 07-04-17, 10:07 AM

gotcha

**Whoson1st** · 07-04-17, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

Well look at Las Vegas all the years they've been in business they couldn't dent offshore books

Five dimes is probably better than every Las Vegas book combined

Too much regulation is the main reason

For Every 10 threads about 5 Dimes: At least 5 report slow pay or some other problem. That's being conservative.
You rarely read of anyone reporting this about a Nevada Sports book.

**BriGuy** · 07-07-17, 12:43 AM

I read an interesting article about a "Doomsday Scenario" whereby Nevada loses sports betting. It actually makes a lot of sense and goes like this:

1) NJ wants PASPA ruled unconstitutional because it violates equal sovereignty. The law has a clause granting special privilege to Nevada, Delaware, Oregon and Montana in the form of grandfather rights. Most experts, including myself, think NJ has a very strong case (although I was flabbergasted they lost their previous rounds so what do I know....)

2) What could theoretically happen is the USSC keeps the law in place because the law itself is perfectly Constitutional, and merely strikes down the clause granting special privileges to those 4 states. So PASPA becomes the law of the land in all 50 states, Nevada included.

There is no doubt in my mind that, one way or another, sports gambling eventually becomes legal in all 50 states (well, what I mean is each state will be allowed to decide for itself like they already do with other casino games). But I have to admit I think it would be hilarious if Nevada lost sports gambling for a year or two while Congress got their act together.

**jjgold** · 07-07-17, 05:43 AM

Vegas wants it to pass actually

It then becomes accepted all over USA and they do bettor and all their properties will be in the different states

**vividjohn45** · 07-07-17, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

Vegas wants it to pass actually

It then becomes accepted all over USA and they do bettor and all their properties will be in the different states

Yah. Dream come true. We have a hard rock here. I.d love it. I.d go everyday. As it stands now, i rarely go. They do have live poker so sometimes. Rule #1 for sports bettors and poker players dont play slots. *exception is you are on a date getting trim*

**jjgold** · 07-07-17, 10:06 AM

People think that Vegas doesn't want it there on your knees begging it passes

The big offshore places will not get hurt but all the little ones will crumble

**vividjohn45** · 07-07-17, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

People think that Vegas doesn't want it there on your knees begging it passes

The big offshore places will not get hurt but all the little ones will crumble

Yah. If hard rock here in tulsa opened up a legal sports book. Id proly cut 80% of my sports bankroll online. Just keep my poker roll online. * if hard rock got a mobile sports app id proly close up shop on my online sports books

**jjgold** · 07-07-17, 10:32 AM

Places like 5 Dimes can never be replaced just too many bet offers that legal books will never have

Live betting offshore a must..Vegas it is whore shit

**BriGuy** · 07-07-17, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

Vegas wants it to pass actually

It then becomes accepted all over USA and they do bettor and all their properties will be in the different states

I'm sure there are a wide variety of different opinions on the matter. Casino/hotels with property elsewhere would probably like the law overturned, but I guarantee the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce doesn't.

Regardless, NONE of them would want the "doomsday scenario" of sports betting being outlawed in Vegas to actually pass.

**Buffalo Nickle** · 07-07-17, 10:45 AM

No way the Republican retards on the Supreme Court go against Sheldon Adelson.

They might legalize it in New Jersey but only for pro sports. Then crack down in every state on gambling.

They will probably give a limited ruling that allows states to have gambling that have it on the books and then close it off to everyone.

**jjgold** · 07-07-17, 11:02 AM

Most people do not go to Vegas to bet sports

EXTREME RARE DO

Majority of sportsbook volume is locals, most sportsbooks empty on a day in and day out basis

**BriGuy** · 07-07-17, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Buffalo Nickle

No way the Republican retards on the Supreme Court go against Sheldon Adelson.

They might legalize it in New Jersey but only for pro sports. Then crack down in every state on gambling.

They will probably give a limited ruling that allows states to have gambling that have it on the books and then close it off to everyone.

With all due respect, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

**BriGuy** · 07-07-17, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

Most people do not go to Vegas to bet sports

EXTREME RARE DO

Majority of sportsbook volume is locals, most sportsbooks empty on a day in and day out basis

Vegas sportsbooks are chock full of people - both locals and out of towners - when the NFL is on. The NFL is the king of sports gambling. I know of several places that put the NFL games on in their auditoriums where a thousand people can sit, instead of just the sportsbook itself.

Yes, on a Friday in July they are empty since other sports simply don't attract much wagering so you're right that on a day-to-day basis, the books are empty and people don't generally go all the way to Vegas to bet on Pirates-Phillies.

(OTB is an exception to the above but that is legal everywhere so Nevada holds no competitive edge in that regard)

**Buffalo Nickle** · 07-07-17, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by BriGuy

With all due respect, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

We will have to see. Very good chance they limit betting to established places under present laws and then try to kill it elsewhere.

They took this case for a reason. They have an agenda and it ain't to allow nationwide betting you can be sure.

**jjgold** · 07-07-17, 05:03 PM

You'll never get juice like you do offshore meaning lower juice options

**Buffalo Nickle** · 07-07-17, 05:23 PM

Trump is going to get betting on NFL at his casinos and Adelson is going to get a ban on online gambling across the country and everybody is going to be happy. Lindsay Graham and Marco Rubio are already working on the legislation to drop the hammer down.

**StackinGreen** · 07-07-17, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

You'll never get juice like you do offshore meaning lower juice options

I generally agree with this because the gov't operations, like horses, are a joke.

So what, odds won't get worse with locals, if anything, it helps everyone.

**StackinGreen** · 07-07-17, 05:41 PM

BriGuy, the problem with your #2 is that they have already ruled de facto that it IS Constitutional, with the precedent of it being legal in the already sanctioned states.

That's what is so asinine about the original law, it says

A) Sports gambling in itself is not illegal for states
B) ... just only you guys, for whatever reason

A betrays the entire bill, in other words, because it is so obviously unconstitutional to allow a state free and unfettered X while denying that to every other state, literally on arbitrary whim. Grandfathering in is not logic nor law. Either the law is legal or it is not, to all states. Again, it's obviously legal. The fact that supposedly educated judges decided against maybe the most obvious unconstitutional law EVER, in any court (circuit or appellate court (let alone Supreme)) created shows you how f'n stupid law and judges are --- or how irreverent to the law they are.

The federal statute against Marijuana, for example, didn't apply to only "some states". What's weird about that is another Constitutional Republic problem that should have resulted in immediate impeachment and removal of President Obama and/or DOJ --- they instructed, as the executive branch, their officers from enforcing a passed law, purposefully. That's a banana republic/dictator/law creator/denier, whatever you want. Weird times in America.

**BriGuy** · 07-07-17, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Buffalo Nickle

We will have to see. Very good chance they limit betting to established places under present laws and then try to kill it elsewhere.

They took this case for a reason. They have an agenda and it ain't to allow nationwide betting you can be sure.

There's no "agenda" beyond ruling on a very important issue of equal sovereignty.

And Justice Roberts has written briefs on behalf of the AGA, so he isn't exactly an opponent of gambling.

**Thor4140** · 07-07-17, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by BriGuy

I think it is funny how New Jersey is doing all the work to get this legalized and if/when they win, they will be surrounded by at least 3 states (NY, DE, CT) who will legalize it as well, so NJ won't even see all that much gain. PA will probably legalize it too eventually but I guess maybe all those Philly people can head to Atlantic City for a short while..... Maybe the NYC people will find it easiest to cross the bridge/tunnel into Jersey instead of staying instate......

The Philly people have a casino in Philly as well as another one 10 minutes from philly.