What do you make of BetFirstClass?

[Justin7]

They jerk around 46 players because their linesmen fell asleep. They pay, but only after a fiasco. Sloppy.

Then, they join "The Boy's Club" by securing book to book transfers with Bookmaker.

Once you're in the club - being able to transfer to Cris, Greek or Pinny, you're presumed to be a solid book. I don't know of any books lower than "B" that are in the club.

But then, I don't know of any books higher than "C" that 1. have linesmen asleep at the wheel that miss 46 "account emptying bets", or 2. try to cancel bets because management was taking a power nap during crunch time.

What do you think?

[betplom]

Perhaps you could elaborate on the "power nap and account emptying bets".

Since I have accounts at all the big books (CRIS/Pinny/Greek/Ladbrokes/etc) I don't feel the need to go looking for trouble with relatively small places.

[Justin7]

BFC responded to the players in the industry forum. Their original defense was that the line was bad, and 46 players bet their balances on the game.

Duh! Why wouldn't you if you could scalp it out?

[The General]

With no disrespect intended for the operation sided by using my knowledge base and maturity since working in this business, from what I have heard from players, others in the Industry and read from their own postings along with the conduct I have seen publicly by their own, I would not fund at nor recommend their services since there are so many other established on line sports books that have a Long and Proven track record at this time. From my seat and experience, I consider that common sense. That is just an honest opinion and not a personal shot at BetFirstClass nor their personnel. I say this as if a personal close friend of mine was asking me for an opinion.

[durito]

Their owner doesn't know the first thing about odds, bookmaking, the industry, or how to write a coherent sentence. But, other than that they seem ok, I'll probably try them out.

[Bread]

I wish that guy would post more here. He was hilarious.

Losing both him and Shanty's angry rants in the same period has been completely devastating to my entertainment value.

[MonkeyF0cker]

BFC responded to the players in the industry forum. Their original defense was that the line was bad, and 46 players bet their balances on the game.

Duh! Why wouldn't you if you could scalp it out?

When Michael was on here trying to recruit players, one of his selling points to the players was that they had opinionated lines. Now when players are taking advantage of that, their bets are cancelled. I'd be hesitant to send them any large sums.

[Slim]

Scam book. Over at EOG they're blowing Betfirstclass for their SBR upgrade.

[The Judge]

With no disrespect intended for the operation sided by using my knowledge base and maturity since working in this business, from what I have heard from players, others in the Industry and read from their own postings along with the conduct I have seen publicly by their own, I would not fund at nor recommend their services since there are so many other established on line sports books that have a Long and Proven track record at this time. From my seat and experience, I consider that common sense. That is just an honest opinion and not a personal shot at BetFirstClass nor their personnel. I say this as if a personal close friend of mine was asking me for an opinion.

General while I respect your opinion, I would be interested in hearing what you “have heard from players and others in the Industry” with regard to BetFirstClass. I am personally unaware of a single unresolved complaint (including the recent issue with the Denver 1st Half) from anyone who has played with our shop and am genuinely curious to learn what you may have been told.

There can be no question that Michael’s posting persona has not done him any favors and I am sure that many find his very defensive style to be annoying. This is a battle that I fight daily so you can rest assured that no one is more affected by this than I am. Regardless, BetFirstClass has without exception, paid out every single withdrawal request at a pace that remains unmatched by our competition as we have focused on this policy. It is rare that a player has not receive their funds within 24 hours of requesting them from us and this fact is undisputed with substantial evidence to back it up.

Certainly your point about there being many more established books is true and there is no question that new books that come on the scene deserve the type of scrutiny that BFC has received here and at other forums. All we can do to combat this is to continue to perform to the best of our ability and to ensure that when there is a problem with a player, it is addressed immediately. Will mistakes be made along the way? I can say with certainty that there will be, just as there would with any new business. The key is for BFC to act on the lessons learned and make adjustments to hopefully prevent similar mistakes for occurring as we move forward.

It goes without saying that it is tremendously difficult for a new shop like BetFirstClass to become established and trusted by the community. We are all well aware of past circumstances where start-up books fail within the first year and there have been many instances of players losing funds in the process. Several SBR posters have called BFC a “scam” book without any evidence to support their libelous claims and indeed, there is a nearly year long track record that would suggest otherwise. It would seem that when more established books like BetCRIS and BetPhoenix are willing to establish relationships with us, this should be a reason for posters to reconsider their opinion and hopefully give us a chance to prove ourselves while keeping an open mind.

Additionally, SportsBookReview as well as another sportsbook monitoring site have both upgraded their rating of BetFirstClass within the past week. While these upgrades were minimal, I view them as baby steps in our attempt to better establish ourselves within the online gambling community and they are certainly welcomed by us.

Finally, I would like to state for the record that I take issue with the title of the thread started by 5 star bomb and believe it to be not only incorrect, but inflammatory and inappropriate. No one was “ripped off” in the matter in question and in fact the issue was resolved to the players’ satisfaction in every case and I believe that it would be appropriate for the thread title to be edited.

BetFirstClass rips of a poster...

I certainly appreciate the opportunity that has been given to me by Bill Dozer to respond to comments and questions about BetFirstClass. It is only in this manner that I will ever mention BFC in any post here at SBR.

[MonkeyF0cker]

That's all good and fine, Judge, but your response really fails to explain how one can distinguish between the opinionated lines that you guys have trumpeted about on the forums in the past and when you hang a bad line. Can you please provide some insight into this?

[BigDaddy]

They jerk around 46 players because their linesmen fell asleep. They pay, but only after a fiasco. Sloppy.

Then, they join "The Boy's Club" by securing book to book transfers with Bookmaker.

Once you're in the club - being able to transfer to Cris, Greek or Pinny, you're presumed to be a solid book. I don't know of any books lower than "B" that are in the club.

But then, I don't know of any books higher than "C" that 1. have linesmen asleep at the wheel that miss 46 "account emptying bets", or 2. try to cancel bets because management was taking a power nap during crunch time.

What do you think?

although i was offered a a $2500 bet via PM from the owner himself that 46 wagers did exist i would have to say that 46 wagers of accounts being emptied were a little exaggerated

i don't see how i could win such a bet to begin with so its kind of a silly offer IMHO

but i come to expect that stuff from the poster BFC he is quite the character

[The Judge]

That's all good and fine, Judge, but your response really fails to explain how one can distinguish between the opinionated lines that you guys have trumpeted about on the forums in the past and when you hang a bad line. Can you please provide some insight into this?

I am not going to continue to discuss this matter ad naueam as it serves no purpose that I can see. Suffice it to say that the matter could and should have been handled differently but at the end of the day, the wagers were honored and the players involved are satisfied with the results. I do find it somewhat curious that so much has been made over this after our mistake was rectified. You can be sure that like any other book, this will likely not be the last error in judgment that BFC will make but hopefully some will recognize that we have made it right for those that were actually affected.

[SBR Lou]

I am not going to continue to discuss this matter ad naueam as it serves no purpose that I can see. Suffice it to say that the matter could and should have been handled differently but at the end of the day, the wagers were honored and the players involved are satisfied with the results. I do find it somewhat curious that so much has been made over this after our mistake was rectified. You can be sure that like any other book, this will likely not be the last error in judgment that BFC will make but hopefully some will recognize that we have made it right for those that were actually affected.

In other words - - players are correct in assuming the linesman fell asleep at the wheel, and then made a huge error in judgment by canceling the bets.

I agree though, the bets were honored, a mistake has been acknowledged, I think many of us were just hoping that BFC would be a little more forthright in exactly how they screwed up.

[pavyracer]

Let me get this straight:

The players beat the book and they claim the line was bad. If the players lost on a bad line would the book have refunded their bets because the line was bad?

[The Judge]

In other words - - players are correct in assuming the linesman fell asleep at the wheel, and then made a huge error in judgment by canceling the bets.

I agree though, the bets were honored, a mistake has been acknowledged, I think many of us were just hoping that BFC would be a little more forthright in exactly how they screwed up.

Those making this assumption would be wrong as the line was simply entered incorrectly. The mistake made was the overreaction to the keystroke error once it was discovered. Clearly, the thing to do would have been to honor the wagers and chalk it up to lessons learned, which is exactly what happened the next morning. Unfortunately, the scenario was played out on the forums and we did a poor job of responding to the outcry from so many posters that really had no stake in the matter.

[The Judge]

Let me get this straight:

The players beat the book and they claim the line was bad. If the players lost on a bad line would the book have refunded their bets because the line was bad?

This is not even close to what happened. The wagers were originally canceled two hours before tip-off and every attempt was made to notify the players of the decision. Subsequently, the wagers were honored anyway so in effect, the players were never in a position to lose the wagers which seems to have been overlooked by most casual observers.

[MonkeyF0cker]

I am not going to continue to discuss this matter ad naueam as it serves no purpose that I can see. Suffice it to say that the matter could and should have been handled differently but at the end of the day, the wagers were honored and the players involved are satisfied with the results. I do find it somewhat curious that so much has been made over this after our mistake was rectified. You can be sure that like any other book, this will likely not be the last error in judgment that BFC will make but hopefully some will recognize that we have made it right for those that were actually affected.

Ad nauseam? I have yet to see my question addressed by BFC here. Forgive me if you've addressed it on other forums, but some of us only post here. One would think that it would be in your best interest to explain this to as many prospective players as possible. However, I'm not going to tell you guys how to run your book as apparently PR is not BFC's forte and your attempts to circumvent addressing this issue only seem to cast illegitimacy on this matter.

[Frank]

They jerk around 46 players because their linesmen fell asleep. They pay, but only after a fiasco. Sloppy.

Then, they join "The Boy's Club" by securing book to book transfers with Bookmaker.

Once you're in the club - being able to transfer to Cris, Greek or Pinny, you're presumed to be a solid book. I don't know of any books lower than "B" that are in the club.

But then, I don't know of any books higher than "C" that 1. have linesmen asleep at the wheel that miss 46 "account emptying bets", or 2. try to cancel bets because management was taking a power nap during crunch time.

What do you think?

Cris has in the past transferred with or currently transfer with:
Cascade
Ehorse
Wagerweb
Instant Action
Las Palmas
Catalina books

None of those are higher than C

They may or may not transfer to/from those books now but being part of transfers with Cris doesn't necessarily translate to being a good/bad or solid/risky book. I would not put all my stock in that.

[jjgold]

Well if it was a real bad line players should of been refunded their money and booted out of the book for taking a shot at therm.

[BigDaddy]

Well if it was a real bad line players should of been refunded their money and booted out of the book for taking a shot at therm.

it wasn't a bad line. just something BFC can't admit to they still believe it was LOL!

[Matt Rain]

I do find it somewhat curious that so much has been made over this after our mistake was rectified.

It wasn't a mistake, it was incompetence followed by greed. You're not entitled to move on air after the fact - just automate your line moves if you don't wanna get caught again.

[Justin7]

Those making this assumption would be wrong as the line was simply entered incorrectly. The mistake made was the overreaction to the keystroke error once it was discovered. Clearly, the thing to do would have been to honor the wagers and chalk it up to lessons learned, which is exactly what happened the next morning. Unfortunately, the scenario was played out on the forums and we did a poor job of responding to the outcry from so many posters that really had no stake in the matter.

So you're saying that the price of -265 was NEVER the right price? And you're denying that this was the market opening price?

[The Judge]

So you're saying that the price of -265 was NEVER the right price? And you're denying that this was the market opening price?

I am saying that -265 was never previously the line at BFC. Due to very limited overnight action, we do not post overnight ML numbers. This was the first number posted that day and it was a mistake which is why it was jumped on so hard. Widely available numbers were well above this line at the time it was mistyped into our system.

[raydog]

thats exactly what he is saying justin. i dont know why you people find it so hard to believe. i dont think there is any way that a book falls asleep on the only game of the day....the only hoops game. if there were a handful or a dozen, sure, i can see sleeping on one, but this was an obvious error on a line that was never anywhere close to pinnys line, much less beating the pinny line. look at what you are actually trying to convince yourself and realize how stupid you look for thinking this book had pinny beaten the whole time. it was an obvious keystroke mistake. if you mean to type in 365 and accidentally type in 265, thats a bad line at your book. i dont give a shit what the market has.

i think mike said the wrong thing when he said that all his wagers at that -265 price were "all in" bets, but i dont know why its so hard to believe that he had 46 "all ins" on the wager. hell, the whole story got brought to the forum by an all in poster. i had 3xs that many 1st half wagers and they gotta be bigger than me, so i see no reason not to believe him. whatever the case, everyone knows that bfc started off with a shit rating because of rumors and possible connections to past bad books and people. they appear to pay out fast and although i would never play there because so many books beat their prices, they do have large limits that can fit some peoples needs. for anyone who thinks that a lot of those people didnt take shots at what they knew was an obvious bad line, you need to think again.

[RickySteve]

Doesn't CRIS still transfer to Cascade?

[katstale]

I will play there and just have been a little pre-occupied or would have been there already. Still trying to decide whether to take bonus or reduced juice. I have to admit I openly root for reduced places because its in my long term best interest.

I have enjoyed/appreciated BFC's willingness to discuss issues openly and the fact that for the past year they have paid everyone.

I couple that with the transfer ability between Matchbook/phoenix etc and as i said. By the time the nappy headed hos get started i will be a customer. If they will still have me....

[5 star bomb]

I am saying that -265 was never previously the line at BFC. Due to very limited overnight action, we do not post overnight ML numbers. This was the first number posted that day and it was a mistake which is why it was jumped on so hard. Widely available numbers were well above this line at the time it was mistyped into our system.

Hey dumb fukk your dumb ass book brags all the time about having "opinionated" lines.... -265 wasnt even that far off, especially from the early line on that bet.

[InvestmentWager]

The line wasnt that far off and I know for a fact they didnt have 46 players unload their accts. One guy over at EOG bet into the line and he didnt even know it was supposedly bad.

[Justin7]

Did all 46 bets come in at the same second? In one minute? In 30 minutes? If it all happened in a 5 second window (or something else very quickly), I'm sure we would have heard about it.

If you keep taking bad bets without looking at the market, you're asleep. Were they asleep at the start, or did they fall asleep later? I'm not sure of when - only that someone was asleep.

[HedgeHog]

Hey dumb fukk your dumb ass book brags all the time about having "opinionated" lines.... -265 wasnt even that far off, especially from the early line on that bet.

But, to their credit, BFC did honor these legit bets. You should follow their example, 5*Stiff.

[InvestmentWager]

Like I said there wasnt 46 bets. One guy sent in 1k that same day and bet it all on one game. The owner freaked out on him. There wasnt 46 bets. It doesnt take genius to figure out what happened. That being said they paid the player because everyone was making such a stink about it.

[5 star bomb]

yea no way was there 46 bets made on that line.... they probably dont even have 46 accounts with them

[HedgeHog]

Doesn't CRIS still transfer to Cascade?

God I hope not. I would lose all respect for them if they still do this.

[durito]

God I hope not. I would lose all respect for them if they still do this.

http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-industry/62961-book-book-transfers-p2.html#post1494878

Here is a detailed list for transfers with the CRIS family

We transfer to:
5 Dimes
Bet Jamaica
Betehorse
Cascade ***We do transfers to them, they do not transfer funds to us***
Catalina
First Fidelity
Grande
Hollywood
Instant Action
Jazz/ABC Islands
Matchbook ***Not for DSI***
Olympic/The Greek
Pinnacle ***Not for DSI*** (listed customers only)
Tradewins
Vegas Vic / BetVegas
WSEX ***Not for DSI***

They say it's not their responsibility to ensure that they aren't transferring to scam books. So, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in BFC based on Cris.

[JELLYBEAN]

Transfering with CRIS is not such a big deal. I am sure Mickey has a guarantee from someone or they posted up there. As far as this issue on the -265 line. They feel asleep cause they have very little business. Maybe 1-200 real clients from a credit business. They do not offer anything unique to make you want to risk your money with them. The stance that they offer opinionated lines is bullshit because like the -265 line once there opinions are wrong they can use the "bad line excuse" sure they made good this time because of pressure, but that's only because they want more post up business. Who in there right mind would transfer there money from CRIS to this fly by night place anyway. Its going to be a one way transfer maching and more likely than not it wont last long. I would advise to stay away from this book.