Bringing this question to the forum, opinions appreciiated Baseball Total grading

[topgame85]

Ok So I bet the over 10.5/11 at several sites yesterday for the Nationals game that I went to the game got rained out in the 6th inning score is 7-5. A few sites graded this as a win as it clearly should be and some graded it NO ACTION which is bullshit, had the game gone nine innings it is factually impossible there could have been less than 12 runs, you can't lose runs, I'm thinking they grade under bets as losses and over bets as no action. They all state the rule totals must go 9 innings or 8.5 if home team is winning but betjam and other grade this as a win as common sense dictates overs should be paid and unders lost because the result had been determined. Am I right or wrong?

[Casperwaits]

My question would be is if the sites that graded no action would have graded the same if you had taken the UNDER. If the answer is yes, I think their stance is valid. If they had graded the UNDER as a loss, you would have a gripe.

[onthewhat]

it is no action

[topgame85]

No way to tell this though Casper and thats the problem..... it's a ridiculous rule, you can not lose runs in baseball only add more on I mean this is not rocket science

[topgame85]

it is no action

apparently some places but not all and places that are too slow to figure out that unders should be losses and overs should be winners won't be getting my action anymore, I'll stick to the places run by people with common sense

[pavyracer]

If I had the under in this game and the weather was perfect what stops me from calling a bomb threat to have the game cancelled?

If the score is already determined before the delay it should be honored.

[Casperwaits]

If I had the under in this game and the weather was perfect what stops me from calling a bomb threat to have the game cancelled?

The FBI Pavy, the FBI.

[topgame85]

Thank you pavy, exactly, the outcome had been determined 100%, Its not like a team is up 20-0 and you have the team thats up because the other team has a chance to get 21 runs even if its a .00001% chance there is A CHANCE

[VegasDave]

While it is extremely unfortunate, all bets have to be treated the same on both sides, which is why runlines and over/unders are not official until the game has gone 9 innings.

If the game is 1-0 in the bottom of the 8th and the game is rained out, no one would argue that I deserve to get paid on my under 11.5, since in the 9th inning there could have been 11 runs scored.

Why would anyone bet unders when overs had such a huge advantage? Bet an over and once it hits you are a winner; bet an under and you can never win unless the game goes the full 9.

As unfair as it feels, it has to be graded that way.

[topgame85]

Not everywhere does though VD thats my point and it is fair because 11 runs could be score in the ninth however runs can not be lost in a game, it is not a HUGE advantage as it comes into play maybe only 5 times a year at MOST where a game gets rained out with the over already having been achieved

[BestPlay2day]

I am surprised that some books graded game 2 Phillies/Nats as a win for the over. What online books graded it as a win? I thought every online had the rule for runlines and over/unders that the game must go 9 or 8.5 if home team wins.

[losturmarbles]

if the outcome of the wager has already been decided (ie the total has gone over), then the wager should be graded as such.

i'm not sure but i thought that's the way most books grade baseball totals.

which books didnt grade it this way?

[topgame85]

I argued my point with the book and they got no comment on this they just say read the rule, like I said I'm sticking to places run by people with common sense, as pavy pointed out its extreme but feasible someone could bet the under and for the value of their house and if it went over just call in a bomb threat or something rules are rules but somewhere along the line someone has to invoke common sense

[VegasDave]

Not everywhere does though VD thats my point and it is fair because 11 runs could be score in the ninth however runs can not be lost in a game, it is not a HUGE advantage as it comes into play maybe only 5 times a year at MOST where a game gets rained out with the over already having been achieved

5 times a year at most? I highly doubt that that is accurate, it seems to happen a lot more often than that.

It is industry standard, and everywhere SHOULD do it. No legitimate book does it any other way.

Again; it SUCKS. Even if it hasn't already been achieved, getting a rain out in a 5-3 ballgame in the 3rd inning with an over 8.5 is equally frustrating.

But it is graded this way across the board at every legitimate sportsbook online and in Vegas. Where did you say it was that graded this a winner?

[topgame85]

I am surprised that some books graded game 2 Phillies/Nats as a win for the over. What online books graded it as a win? I thought every online had the rule for runlines and over/unders that the game must go 9 or 8.5 if home team wins.

That is the rule at all books but most only apply it when the outcome has not been decided already

[MBENZ]

if the outcome of the wager has already been decided (ie the total has gone over), then the wager should be graded as such.

i'm not sure but i thought that's the way most books grade baseball totals.

which books didnt grade it this way?

I don't know of any that grade it as a win,I know I have gotten fukked more than once on this stupid shit.

[VegasDave]

if the outcome of the wager has already been decided (ie the total has gone over), then the wager should be graded as such.

i'm not sure but i thought that's the way most books grade baseball totals.

which books didnt grade it this way?

But you'd also argue a 1-0 game in the bottom of the 8th when I have the under 11.5 should be graded a push and not a win, right?

This simply IS NOT FAIR to under bettors, and that is why the rule is what it is. This is essentially the same as saying you can bet Team A or Team B on the moneyline... if Team A is winning and the game gets rained out, Team A gets paid as a winner, but if Team B is winning, both sides get graded as a push.

[VegasDave]

That is the rule at all books but most only apply it when the outcome has not been decided already

Not true. ALL books apply it when the outcome has been decided already. If the game doesn't go a full 9 innings, it is a push, regardless of whether "the outcome has been decided".

[losturmarbles]

While it is extremely unfortunate, all bets have to be treated the same on both sides, which is why runlines and over/unders are not official until the game has gone 9 innings.

If the game is 1-0 in the bottom of the 8th and the game is rained out, no one would argue that I deserve to get paid on my under 11.5, since in the 9th inning there could have been 11 runs scored.

Why would anyone bet unders when overs had such a huge advantage? Bet an over and once it hits you are a winner; bet an under and you can never win unless the game goes the full 9.

As unfair as it feels, it has to be graded that way.

vd, unders have to go the full game because that is the prop,
the prop for an over can be fulfilled in 1 half inning.

if at some point during the game the over is achieved, then that should decide the outcome of o/u bets regardless of what happens to the rest of the game.

[MBENZ]

Not true. ALL books apply it when the outcome has been decided already. If the game doesn't go a full 9 innings, it is a push, regardless of whether "the outcome has been decided".

I understand the runline side of it because anything can happen,but if a total goes over,after 5 innings,it should be a win,stupid bullshit.

[losturmarbles]

But you'd also argue a 1-0 game in the bottom of the 8th when I have the under 11.5 should be graded a push and not a win, right?

This simply IS NOT FAIR to under bettors, and that is why the rule is what it is. This is essentially the same as saying you can bet Team A or Team B on the moneyline... if Team A is winning and the game gets rained out, Team A gets paid as a winner, but if Team B is winning, both sides get graded as a push.

it is graded as a push isnt it?

[topgame85]

Haha ok VD your obvously not going to understand that this is not the first time this has happened and that several books have graded this as a winner past and present, I am not going to say names because I don't want them changing the rule as I am a big fan of common sense, and saying fck industry conformity, the "its not fair to under bettors" argument is weak because how is that fair to someone who has the over? It is what it is, like I said I will stay with the shops I know wont play games with me

[VegasDave]

vd, unders have to go the full game because that is the prop,
the prop for an over can be fulfilled in 1 half inning.

if at some point during the game the over is achieved, then that should decide the outcome of o/u bets regardless of what happens to the rest of the game.

And if this were the industry standard, you'd be 100% correct.

But long ago it was decided that the over and the under were going to be treated fairly, 50/50 on both sides, and follow the exact same rules.

You are right, the under is a prop that has to last for 9 innings. But so is the over. That is unfortunately just the way it is.

[VegasDave]

Haha ok VD your obvously not going to understand that this is not the first time this has happened and that several books have graded this as a winner past and present, I am not going to say names because I don't want them changing the rule as I am a big fan of common sense, and saying fck industry conformity, the "its not fair to under bettors" argument is weak because how is that fair to someone who has the over? It is what it is, like I said I will stay with the shops I know wont play games with me

Well if you are playing at books that grade it that way, you should seriously exploit the hell out of them for it. It isn't a matter of "me understanding", I know how it is graded clearly across the entire industry. If you have some books that you don't want to name that grade it differently, they are grading it WRONG. And you should, as I said, make them pay for it

[topgame85]

Then your betting on the weather Davey and its not often teams rack up an over in bad weather before 9 innings if at all I wonder if I can research how many games this has affected lets see.........

[VegasDave]

In the grand scheme of things, after you have placed 10s of 1000s of bets and you are on your deathbed, there will be a close to equal number of times that you got screwed by this rule and times you got helped by this rule (a 2-0 game getting rained out in the 7th when you had the over 10). It sucks, but everyone knows going in to every contest that this is the rule and this is the way it is, so you aren't getting blindsided. You always have the choice of not playing over/unders if it upsets you enough.

[VegasDave]

Then your betting on the weather Davey and its not often teams rack up an over in bad weather before 9 innings if at all I wonder if I can research how many games this has affected lets see.........

Hell, I'd argue it is almost always worth it to bet the over when you know that rain is brewing.

Either it get rained out and you get a push, or after a long delay both starters are bounced from the game early and you go straight to long relievers.

Especially at these books where you say you are getting paid when its already decided, I'd bet the over on just about every rainy forcast.

[topgame85]

ha ha only way that is an option is if I want to only win 45% of my bets because thts about the clip I hit on everything other than o/u's

[losturmarbles]

vd, you say its not fair to under bettors. so under bettors getting a freeroll is fair?

being able to cancel a wager after the outcome of the wager has already been decided opens it up to corruption.

[topgame85]

Hell, I'd argue it is almost always worth it to bet the over when you know that rain is brewing.

Either it get rained out and you get a push, or after a long delay both starters are bounced from the game early and you go straight to long relievers.

Especially at these books where you say you are getting paid when its already decided, I'd bet the over on just about every rainy forcast.

Maybe I will try this Dan, but the whole point I have is I'm not trying to exploit any system or take advatage, I take a game I like and I bet it, had I had the under I would have expected this to be graded a loss not a push just as I would expect common sense to dictate over 11 is a winner but hell what do i know, maybe one day I will own a sportsbook and name it betcommonsense daht com

[losturmarbles]

Hell, I'd argue it is almost always worth it to bet the over when you know that rain is brewing.

Either it get rained out and you get a push, or after a long delay both starters are bounced from the game early and you go straight to long relievers.

Especially at these books where you say you are getting paid when its already decided, I'd bet the over on just about every rainy forcast.

no thats backwards logic.

bet the under, if the totals go over, maybe you can pay the ump to call the game and you get a push.

[VegasDave]

Point being, I'm not saying its fair. You bet the over, it went over. You deserve to get paid.

But these are the rules, and they are universal across the board, every single legitimate book grades it this way. I've tried my best to explain WHY that is the case.

Hopefully you are due for some good luck now

[pavyracer]

So if the weather is iffy before the game starts you bet the over.

1) It will be cancelled if it is not 8.5 innings.
2) Bullpen will be used resulting on runs scored.

It's a win/win situation.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Actually, it's standard Vegas rules that the game must go 8.5 innings for a total to be graded anything but no action. Not sure which books grade it otherwise. I'd be more skeptical of the books that are grading it as a win or a loss, honestly.

[Justin7]

What if you have over 8.5, and the game gets called at the end of the 5th inning with 8 runs scored. Is it fair that you lost?

Industry standard is clear: no action on totals or runlines unless game goes 8.5/9.