The end is near: Neteller to comply with new U.S. Gaming Law

**SBR_John** · 10-19-06, 09:04 AM

No surprizes there. They continue to hint they will go right up to the 270 day period which is good news.

You will see a number of payment options soon as the wheels are turning fast and furious. We will have a complete section on it by the end of the year.

**DamianDunlap** · 10-19-06, 09:04 AM

click2play
moneybookers
Still around

people said the same thing when paypal left. Neteller is not the only company

**yokspot** · 10-19-06, 09:10 AM

Can Neteller survive without the US?

**Lucas** · 10-19-06, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by yokspot

Can Neteller survive without the US?

IMO yes. They have paid fixed costs (soft etc), they can simply fire some employees. And they are the biggest in the world ouside the US too I guess. Moneybookers are not for bigger players - not everyone outside US bets 2 USD per bet.

But I believe they will survive with US.

**Yoshi** · 10-19-06, 09:32 AM

There should be enough market for Neteller in Europe, Asia and a few other countries to continue being profitable.

Also some big books alrdy came up with new methods for US customers, Iam not worried at all.
But BB loves to be a drama queen.

**Arilou** · 10-19-06, 09:35 AM

I just called the Neteller VIP line. They fully intend to continue business as usual until at the 270 day window is complete and they may or may not change policies after that, at which point they are considering no longer processing transactions with the gambling sites (and I confirmed they would waive any FIFO clauses on funds if that happened). If Neteller wants to give up its commissions and float on money to someone else, then I'm sure there will be no shortage of people willing to take its place.

**BuddyBear** · 10-19-06, 09:43 AM

Sorry I am not being a drama queen...i am telling it like it is. You guys can continue to deny the current state but I'll be a realist.

In the past week we've seen a bill signed and intended to be enforced by the U.S. gvmt. We've seen an A+ book bail out and stiff people. We've now seen the #1 method for funding accounts comply with the atracious legislation. Sure someone new will step up and then they'll step down as soon as the u.s. gvmt puts pressure on them. Trust me fellows, the U.S. gvmt WILL prosecute. There are guys who are spending life in prison for smoking pot/selling marijuna. Don't think you are safe b/c you are behind a computer.

We have no one to blame other than republicans for this....plain and simple. If you vote Republican, you are part of the problem, not the solution to this.

In the meantime, I know a guy named Sal who takes bets...that may be my only option in the future.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news today.

**moses millsap** · 10-19-06, 09:52 AM

What a bad way to start off the morning

**nyplayer33** · 10-19-06, 09:54 AM

BuddyBear, your words certainly sound like the avatar you have. What top book stiffed people..wwts??? wwts didnt stiff anybody. There are still many books out there who are alive and happy to be around. Before there was neteller we found a way to get money into these sites. phone cards, party was taking them. purchase up to 250.00 phone card enter pin into said site and presto.

**BigBollocks** · 10-19-06, 10:07 AM

Completely incorrect BuddyBear, IT'S GUYS LIKE YOU WHO START THREADS LIKE THIS THAT THREATEN THE INDUSTRY. You have no idea about what you are talking and I'm stepping out on a limb and saying you are a small time, no inside information, yet loud mouthed hyper reactionary.

I've been in contact with Neteller ever since Frist slipped his provision in, and here are three things I know:
1) Neteller ain't going anywhere until at least after March Madness.
2) Why do you think Neteller put out this statement in the first place? Um, let me think, solely for appeasing the U.S. government. The illusion of cooperation far trumps the renegade stance.
3) If and when Neteller leaves in the middle of 2007, we will have a trillion more viable options anyway (you'd be amazed some of the things they've already got cooking down there).

As for WWTS those in the U.S. will receive their money in the near future, but the writing was on the wall there for quite sometime. If you need information ask, but don't come on here unnecessarily stirring up panic when you don't know anything about the underworkings of some of the sharp minds in the industry.

**BSTPNM68** · 10-19-06, 10:24 AM

HTML Code:

Completely incorrect BuddyBear,
 IT'S GUYS LIKE YOU WHO START THREADS LIKE THIS THAT THREATEN THE INDUSTRY.

Ouch! This thread is going to get interesting.

**moses millsap** · 10-19-06, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by BSTPNM68

HTML Code:

Completely incorrect BuddyBear, 
IT'S GUYS LIKE YOU WHO START THREADS LIKE THIS THAT THREATEN THE INDUSTRY.

Ouch! This thread is going to get interesting.

I think this thread will soon be diverted to The Church.

**BuddyBear** · 10-19-06, 10:38 AM

You guys can say what you want....but you certainly are delusional now.

Let me explain a few things to you....so follow along and tell me where I am wrong.

A year ago when talk about an Internet gaming bill was brought up it was a little scary for most posters but most posters seemed to dismiss it saying no way it passes and true, a number of times it failed to pass and we all breather a big sigh of relief. We figured the Republicans would drop this bill and move on with other stuff....well they didn't..

Later on...we were told it could pass 50/50 but no way it would be enforcable. Eventually it passed much to the suprise of everyone as it was stuck in legislation for the longest time. The lesson: Republicans persisted with this bill for a reason.

Then the thinking shifted by posters/gamblers. As long as we play with the A books will be okay...no need to worry they would never bail on us. A few days later...an A+ book bails on everyone leaving their customers high and dry.

After that, the thinking was as long as we have Pinnacle and Neteller we will be okay no need to worry it's just a total overreaction they have our backs and would never bail on us. And now Neteller comes out with a statement saying they will eventually cease to do business with U.S. customers who intend to fund their gaming accounts.

Now the thinking is...well other companies will come up to the plate and take over...after all we still have Pinnacle.

You people are seriously delusional....Keep telling yourself that everything is going to be okay. That's what you guys have been saying the past year and it's only gotten harder. So you talked to Neteller and now you are convinced that is just a charade to appease the U.S. gvmt....yeah okay bro. The U.S. gvmt is serious about this shit. They pushed very hard to get this provision in with intention of enforcing it. Yes they will eventually repeal it and realize what they are doing is a huge mistake. You guys realize that there are people sitting in U.S. prisons who get life sentences for selling marijuana? The government is not to be ****** with right now...these are periolous times we are living for U.S. citizens: Widespread torture is acceptable, wiretapping without warrants, unlawful detention of U.S. citizens who have done nothing wrong is well-documented, etc....This is not the gvmt your parents grew up with. This administration and any future Republican administration will not hesistate to enforce these laws.

As long as they see this issue connected to national security you are playing with fire. Don't get me wrong....bet online if you want...there is a good change you won't get caught. However, I shudder to think of the consequences of being caught. If guys are spending the rest of their natural lives in prison like Levenworth for selling marijuana what do you think will happen here. Trust me fellows, the U.S. wants nothing more than to make an example of someone. If you are a member of a minority group....it's even more dangerous to bet online in the future. In Washington State, one of our more "liberal" states, wagering online is treated the same as raping a girl. All I am saying is realize that something big is happening. If you continue to insist that nothing is going to happen I feel very sorry for you...all the red flags are up and waving very brightly.

if you have a family...i would encourage you to stop shortly. If you have to place a bet find a local or find a treatment center that will help you in your recovery from addiction. The process will be long though. There is nothing worse than being caught, hiring a pricy lawyer and going through the public humiliation of something like this. Sure you'll get sympathy from the gaming forum community...but not from the prosecutor of the judge and that's all that matters....Trust me, Bill and John won't be there for you when the sentencing comes.

Good luck fellows....

**JoshW** · 10-19-06, 10:43 AM

Not good. Industry will always continue on, but without Neteller and with all of these changes it will be a shadow of its former self.

**Lucas** · 10-19-06, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by BuddyBear

You guys can say what you want....but you certainly are delusional now.

Let me explain a few things to you....so follow along and tell me where I am wrong.

A year ago when talk about an Internet gaming bill was brought up it was a little scary for most posters but most posters seemed to dismiss it saying no way it passes and true, a number of times it failed to pass and we all breather a big sigh of relief. We figured the Republicans would drop this bill and move on with other stuff....well they didn't..

Later on...we were told it could pass 50/50 but no way it would be enforcable. Eventually it passed much to the suprise of everyone as it was stuck in legislation for the longest time. The lesson: Republicans persisted with this bill for a reason.

Then the thinking shifted by posters/gamblers. As long as we play with the A books will be okay...no need to worry they would never bail on us. A few days later...an A+ book bails on everyone leaving their customers high and dry.

After that, the thinking was as long as we have Pinnacle and Neteller we will be okay no need to worry it's just a total overreaction they have our backs and would never bail on us. And now Neteller comes out with a statement saying they will eventually cease to do business with U.S. customers who intend to fund their gaming accounts.

Now the thinking is...well other companies will come up to the plate and take over...after all we still have Pinnacle.

You people are seriously delusional....Keep telling yourself that everything is going to be okay. That's what you guys have been saying the past year and it's only gotten harder. So you talked to Neteller and now you are convinced that is just a charade to appease the U.S. gvmt....yeah okay bro. The U.S. gvmt is serious about this shit. They pushed very hard to get this provision in with intention of enforcing it. Yes they will eventually repeal it and realize what they are doing is a huge mistake. You guys realize that there are people sitting in U.S. prisons who get life sentences for selling marijuana? The government is not to be ****** with right now...these are periolous times we are living for U.S. citizens: Widespread torture is acceptable, wiretapping without warrants, unlawful detention of U.S. citizens who have done nothing wrong is well-documented, etc....This is not the gvmt your parents grew up with. This administration and any future Republican administration will not hesistate to enforce these laws.

As long as they see this issue connected to national security you are playing with fire. Don't get me wrong....bet online if you want...there is a good change you won't get caught. However, I shudder to think of the consequences of being caught. If guys are spending the rest of their natural lives in prison like Levenworth for selling marijuana what do you think will happen here. Trust me fellows, the U.S. wants nothing more than to make an example of someone. If you are a member of a minority group....it's even more dangerous to bet online in the future. In Washington State, one of our more "liberal" states, wagering online is treated the same as raping a girl. All I am saying is realize that something big is happening. If you continue to insist that nothing is going to happen I feel very sorry for you...all the red flags are up and waving very brightly.

if you have a family...i would encourage you to stop shortly. If you have to place a bet find a local or find a treatment center that will help you in your recovery from addiction. The process will be long though. There is nothing worse than being caught, hiring a pricy lawyer and going through the public humiliation of something like this. Sure you'll get sympathy from the gaming forum community...but not from the prosecutor of the judge and that's all that matters....Trust me, Bill and John won't be there for you when the sentencing comes.

Good luck fellows....

Ω

**jjgold** · 10-19-06, 10:56 AM

I called this way back, most books will be closing.

**Dark Horse** · 10-19-06, 11:03 AM

Just open a bank account in another country and stick with the top books. Meanwhile, the books are working on solutions from their end as well.

**jjgold** · 10-19-06, 11:12 AM

Darker not as easy as it looks, guys savy like me will do it but the causal player is done.

Bnak wires are safe from non usa banks to books

**isetcap** · 10-19-06, 11:13 AM

You guys are so funny. I'm going to try to reserve my opinion for serious matters from now on. This does not qualify.

**Seattle Slew** · 10-19-06, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by BigBollocks

Completely incorrect BuddyBear, IT'S GUYS LIKE YOU WHO START THREADS LIKE THIS THAT THREATEN THE INDUSTRY. You have no idea about what you are talking and I'm stepping out on a limb and saying you are a small time, no inside information, yet loud mouthed hyper reactionary.

I've been in contact with Neteller ever since Frist slipped his provision in, and here are three things I know:
1) Neteller ain't going anywhere until at least after March Madness.
2) Why do you think Neteller put out this statement in the first place? Um, let me think, solely for appeasing the U.S. government. The illusion of cooperation far trumps the renegade stance.
3) If and when Neteller leaves in the middle of 2007, we will have a trillion more viable options anyway (you'd be amazed some of the things they've already got cooking down there).

As for WWTS those in the U.S. will receive their money in the near future, but the writing was on the wall there for quite sometime. If you need information ask, but don't come on here unnecessarily stirring up panic when you don't know anything about the underworkings of some of the sharp minds in the industry.

**jjgold** · 10-19-06, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by yokspot

Can Neteller survive without the US?

Yes but a very small profit

Euro players are much smaller players than usa players

**moses millsap** · 10-19-06, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

Yes but a very small profit

Euro players are much smaller players than usa players

I beg to differ completely on that statement JJ. Most European punters I communicate with have quite large betting units compared to most of the American bettors I speak with.

**BuddyBear** · 10-19-06, 11:45 AM

Bigballocks you are seriously delusional. So a chat transcript you had with a Neteller agent suggested otherwise....what do you expect them to say to you. What you are telling me completely contradicts their most recent public statement. I think you are posting with emotion and not coming to terms with reality. Sure other things will spring up but will they be as realiable and if Neteller caves in what makes you think these next group of funding methods won't do the same? It stands to reason that if Neteller ceases to take U.S. business others will also follow....

I respect Bill and John a lot...not a day goes by where I don't express my thanks to them on here but realize Bill and John are trying to paint a very rosy picture of this situation for obvious reasons. I don't blame them...if I was in there place I would be doing the same.

Right now, the gvmt is looking to prosecute people on this. They are dying to catch people kind of like the whole downloading music thing...they are still after people. You remember what happend to those people who got caught...they had to pay huge fines, go to court, hire lawyers. Now...if you get caught here...it may be the same but do you really want to go through the public humiliation. Do you really want to have to put that you were convicted of a felony on your job applications? Do you really want to pick up garbage on the side of the highway?

Like I said, and feel free to point out where I am wrong, but realize that this is not the U.S. gvmt you read about in 5th grade Social Studies. Gone are the days of civil liberties, free speech, torture is now endorsed by the gvmt, people in this country are being swept out of their homes in the middle of the night and taken to prisons without even being charged, phones are tapped regularly for "millions of citizens" now and most likley ISPs are monitored. Maybe things will pass with a new gvmt but right now this administration does not operate with a post-enlightment paradigm....they operate as a theocracy. This regulation is motivated strictly out of some moral compass that has been shattered. Moreover, not only is this gvmt is dangerous but they are doing this in wartime...they can essentially do whatever they want b/c the American people are giving them a blank check. Hell, they are saying this issue is connected to national security. That's how crazy they are.

I would wait till this administration leaves power or the war ends. Either way, it's not good what's happening. There exists a real political world out there and they will enforce this law...they put in the bill for a reason not as some window dressing to satisfy a conservative base.

The writing is on the wall bro....I suspect sometime in the next few decades we'll likely see a repeal of this law once more progressive forces take power. In the meantime proceed with extreme caution and if you get caught by the law hey don't say we didnt' tell you just make sure you wear your soap on a rope.

Good luck....

**BuddyBear** · 10-19-06, 11:48 AM

[QUOTE=nyplayer33]BuddyBear, your words certainly sound like the avatar you have. =QUOTE]

Trust me Al Sharpton has more important things to worry about than online gambling. I really really doubt that he would endorse such things. He's a progressive force....

Conservatives are a reactionary force right now....they are totally bakcwards.

If you voted Republican

you are to blame for this current situation. There is no other way to than to explicitly say it.

**isetcap** · 10-19-06, 11:51 AM

Wait until the war ends. The Iraqi government is working on some great ways to transfer money but they can't unveil them until the damn Americans are gone.

**SBR_John** · 10-19-06, 11:59 AM

Nothing new to this industry.

There is nothing in any federal law that makes placing a wager illegal that I'm aware of.

Couple of things you can bank on:
There will always be ways of sending and receiving money. There will always be the BuddyBears claiming the sky is falling. And there will always be guys winning and losing bets to offshore bookmakers.

**joe blow** · 10-19-06, 12:10 PM

You know when it's really going to be over...

When the IRS steps in,because you all know as well as i that 1% of the winners pay taxes.That's when i'll quit

But as far i as i know it is not against the law to place a bet.

**isetcap** · 10-19-06, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by joe blow

You know when it's really going to be over...

When the IRS steps in,because you all know as well as i that 1% of the winners pay taxes.That's when i'll quit

But as far i as i know it is not against the law to place a bet.

The pool of winners in comparison to the losers is so utterly miniscule that it's like putting a glass of water against the Pacific Ocean. The IRS is looking for bigger fish to fry.

**sergfro** · 10-19-06, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by BuddyBear

Bigballocks you are seriously delusional. So a chat transcript you had with a Neteller agent suggested otherwise....what do you expect them to say to you. What you are telling me completely contradicts their most recent public statement. I think you are posting with emotion and not coming to terms with reality. Sure other things will spring up but will they be as realiable and if Neteller caves in what makes you think these next group of funding methods won't do the same? It stands to reason that if Neteller ceases to take U.S. business others will also follow....

I respect Bill and John a lot...not a day goes by where I don't express my thanks to them on here but realize Bill and John are trying to paint a very rosy picture of this situation for obvious reasons. I don't blame them...if I was in there place I would be doing the same.

Right now, the gvmt is looking to prosecute people on this. They are dying to catch people kind of like the whole downloading music thing...they are still after people. You remember what happend to those people who got caught...they had to pay huge fines, go to court, hire lawyers. Now...if you get caught here...it may be the same but do you really want to go through the public humiliation. Do you really want to have to put that you were convicted of a felony on your job applications? Do you really want to pick up garbage on the side of the highway?

Like I said, and feel free to point out where I am wrong, but realize that this is not the U.S. gvmt you read about in 5th grade Social Studies. Gone are the days of civil liberties, free speech, torture is now endorsed by the gvmt, people in this country are being swept out of their homes in the middle of the night and taken to prisons without even being charged, phones are tapped regularly for "millions of citizens" now and most likley ISPs are monitored. Maybe things will pass with a new gvmt but right now this administration does not operate with a post-enlightment paradigm....they operate as a theocracy. This regulation is motivated strictly out of some moral compass that has been shattered. Moreover, not only is this gvmt is dangerous but they are doing this in wartime...they can essentially do whatever they want b/c the American people are giving them a blank check. Hell, they are saying this issue is connected to national security. That's how crazy they are.

I would wait till this administration leaves power or the war ends. Either way, it's not good what's happening. There exists a real political world out there and they will enforce this law...they put in the bill for a reason not as some window dressing to satisfy a conservative base.

The writing is on the wall bro....I suspect sometime in the next few decades we'll likely see a repeal of this law once more progressive forces take power. In the meantime proceed with extreme caution and if you get caught by the law hey don't say we didnt' tell you just make sure you wear your soap on a rope.

Good luck....

You should try writing for a newspaper or magazine....where one might actually care.

Must have a lot of time on your hands

**tacomax** · 10-19-06, 12:42 PM

**jjgold** · 10-19-06, 12:45 PM

There will never again be an easy to send money because now it is illegal to use any banking methods in the usa and if you do you run great risk of a severe jail term.

Neteller wants no part of the US gov't.

**koko** · 10-19-06, 12:45 PM

If Neteller will goes away, who cares, as long as we all get our money out?

Most major books are already working on deposit/cashout methods that can't be stopped by the new law.

If you haven't noticed, several books are talking about the use of prepaid **** Cards and/or ATM cards etc. This would be awesome.

Use credit card to by prepaid card. (bought from ****, a bank, etc and not the book itself). Fund book with prepaid card and cashout from book to prepaid card. Since the card can be used anywhere **** can be used, it is almost as good as cash.

Plus, you'll be able to get cash from ATM's, and, I suspect, you'll be able to get more than the daily $1200 Neteller allows now.

Still don't see how great this is? Think about that last credit card offer you got with 0.0% for the first 6-12 on all purchases. Next time, you wont pass up the offer.

Get the credit card and use it to buy a prepaid card. Now you have a vig-free boost to your roll. of course, this only is wise if you are a proven winner and will be able to use the "loan" to boost your win enough to cover the variance should you run bad before repaying the credit card balance.

**SBR_John** · 10-19-06, 12:46 PM

The really scary part is I think Buddybear said he is a teacher. Yikes!

Well maybe he teaches a paranoia class or something

.

**Willie Bee** · 10-19-06, 12:50 PM

No truer words have ever been posted, albeit in a photograph, taco

I'd like to take this opportunity to urge all Texans to get KINKY on Nov 7th. I now return you to The World is Coming to an End thread