Help me out here, does it matter who sponsors these player sites?

THE SHRINK · 08-11-05, 06:50 AM

John,

I will support any site which tries to raise the bar in this industry by NOT ACCEPTING ad dollars from "BAD" books. Simply put, I believe that if a sports book has a history of "slow pay"s or "no pays", then they should not be afforded the privilege to advertise on a premier gambling portal...

Unfortunately, we are seeing some operators who don't seem to care about which books appear on their web site, and money/greed is the driving force behind this. I suppose they figure that it is the PLAYER'S job to do their due diligence before sending monies abroad, but I disagree. There are some players who will always ASSUME that if a sports book is good enough to appear on an established portal, then they must be SAFE.

It's really time to change our approach. By doing so, posters will respect us more and I believe other "good" sports books will want to follow. If I were an advertiser, I'd much rather appear on a site that was endorsing Caviar over rotten fish...

Your site has a sensational list of sports books appearing at the top of this page and I salute you for it...

THE SHRINK

Theoffshorekid · 08-11-05, 08:48 AM

Unfortunately unless a book is either publicly traded and monitored. Or you have access to the accounts. Even then it would be impossible to monitor risk and win/loss on a weekly basis. It would be impossible to have 100% security. I think most try hard. I dont think a watchdog would take money from a book knowing its not doing well. Usually when the watchdog sites are visiting the offices have been polished up and the suits are out. So its hard to get a good feel for whats going on. But i really feel the sites are doing a much better job. Most freak out when a book is doing bad and they are on the site they represent. Cant be good for business if a sportsbook goes down. Also for every one complaint you hear about a sportsbook that sportsbook has had to face hundreds of scammers on a daily basis. So they are also on the defensive alot of the time. But usually the sportsbook doesnt go to the forums to handle problems. Eventually one day equal ground will be worked out.

kosar · 08-11-05, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by THE SHRINK

I will support any site which tries to raise the bar in this industry by NOT ACCEPTING ad dollars from "BAD" books. Simply put, I believe that if a sports book has a history of "slow pay"s or "no pays", then they should not be afforded the privilege to advertise on a premier gambling portal...

Unfortunately, we are seeing some operators who don't seem to care about which books appear on their web site, and money/greed is the driving force behind this. I suppose they figure that it is the PLAYER'S job to do their due diligence before sending monies abroad, but I disagree. There are some players who will always ASSUME that if a sports book is good enough to appear on an established portal, then they must be SAFE.
THE SHRINK

SBR,

I see that you have a comedy hour here at your new forum.

Mudcat · 08-11-05, 09:41 AM

In the past I have been very cynical and mercenary about this issue. I spent most of the last couple years at Covers who have at least 4 sponsors that I wouldn't touch (BetUS, SIA, Sportsbook, Betcom) but I didn't care.

I knew not to use them and would tell that to anyone who would ask - that was good enough.

I was probably more offended by shills or attention-junky posters who didn't really know anything but still felt like they had to talk like big-shots on every topic.

There is so much tainted information around - I have almost come to accept it as a fact of life. My attitude has been, I can't save the world. I'll just look out for me. If anyone wants to know what I think, I'll tell them.

Maybe now that I'm a mod I'll have to be less shallow on the subject and adjust my thinking.

biggs · 08-11-05, 09:46 AM

the worst example would be royal / tej

anyone who has spent a day or more in the industry knows what tej is all about

first it was score / pyramid then he moved on to RTG casinos that he ripped players off
and now he has royal, anyone that knows tej's past and takes his ad dollars, is taking a 50/50
chance that players he sends WILL be burnt

you can take a monkey out of the jungle, you cant get the jungle out of the monkey

raiders72001 · 08-11-05, 09:54 AM

It seems to me that sites are moving to get more reputable books to advertise. The thing that really bothers me is when a questionable book advertises at a site, the site doesn't allow posters to post any negative comments towards that advertiser. Negative posts are deleted, edited and moved. Moderators will jump in and try to intimidate newer posters that dislike the posts against the book. It wouldn't be as bad to me if posters were allowed to speak their mind about the book and mods wouldn't gang up in support of the book.

marc · 08-11-05, 10:44 AM

The best thing posters can do, if they are upset about the quality of boks beiong allowed to advertise, is simply walk away. In order to have a profitibale forum, you need both posters and sponsors. If you lose one or the other, you're not making money. So the if the posters threaten to walk away, the forum operators will be forced to respond. Also, if I was a Pinnacle, I would not want my banner next to scam outfit. I am suprised that some of the upper tier books don't have better standards. If I never heard of pinnacle, and if I had a bad experience at BOS, I certainly would not give pinn a shot if I see them both advertising in the same place.

Clip Joint · 08-11-05, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by marc

The best thing posters can do, if they are upset about the quality of boks beiong allowed to advertise, is simply walk away. In order to have a profitibale forum, you need both posters and sponsors. If you lose one or the other, you're not making money. So the if the posters threaten to walk away, the forum operators will be forced to respond. Also, if I was a Pinnacle, I would not want my banner next to scam outfit. I am suprised that some of the upper tier books don't have better standards. If I never heard of pinnacle, and if I had a bad experience at BOS, I certainly would not give pinn a shot if I see them both advertising in the same place.

This is the best post I have read on any forum in a long time.

biggs · 08-11-05, 10:52 AM

didnt he sell royal to tej kohli??????

posted by roberto at his site

"Many of TOW posters cross post at other sites, including TheRX.

TheRX and TOW are closely cooperating on some dispute resolution situations at this time.

In the last couple of weeks there has been a more than vital debate over BoS advertising at theRX.

Provided that every portal is free to accept or decline ad dollars at their sole discretion, some advertisers tend to make players (and posters) blood boil. BoS falls in that category.

BoS has built a history of stiffing winners. This is a fact. Even recently they had a case brought to public knowledge by Judge (who might enlighten TOW posters with the details and the outcomes of the case).

I have enjoyed sharing opinions with theRX ownership about this issue. I have expressed my opinions on the matter both privately and publicly:

The very least BoS should do in order to come clean is to pay those players wronged in the past and eliminate, once and for all, the 50/50 rule.

It is now my understanding that theRX is willing to give BoS a "second chance", but at the same time they will have a "mild" approach on those past (and still pending) problems.

I have no intention to ignite confrontation nor start forum wars but I cannot avoid to say that I will maintain my initial opinion on the matter: prior to give BoS a "second chance" the book should come clean on their past mistakes.

TOW is available to provide support in that direction.

At the same time I guarantee our readers that neither TOW nor TOW Forum will ever give a questionable book a second chance. We have made our point clear in the Mybookie case first, BCN's case after.

We take pride in promoting top notch books and we are committed to pursue this promise to the benefit of our viewers, readers and posters.

I have a lot of respect for theRX, its ownership and management. I hope they will see the positive in my words and review their decision to confirm BoS prime advertisement spot without having them come clean on their past and making right to stiffed players first.

Lastly, it is my personal opinion that theRX SHOULD review their decision without hesitation and ASAP. I understand that the portal wants to drop the "watchdog" label, but this, even with the $10,000 guarantee per poster, doesn't necessarily mean that they should wear the "let me lead you to the slaughter house" label as well. TheRX owes it to its readers and posters, specially the ones negatively affected by BoS wrong doings in the past.

Roberto"

IS HE NOT THE ONE THAT SOLD ROYAL TO TEJ AND BY DOING SO PLACING ALL THE PLAYERS THERE IN THE 'HANDS' OF A KNOWN SCAMMER..............HOW IN GODS NAME DO YOU CALL YOURSELF A PLAYERS ADVOCATE????

SBR_John · 08-11-05, 11:05 AM

That was strong marc and was that the man, the frigging legend, king of the hill, the real Shrink?? Welcome Kosar!

The only real problem with it is the newbie.

Some folks estimate 1000 NEW players join a book every single day of the year just from the USA. The regulars know to stay away from BCN, BetUS, BoS, Royal, ESB, ect. But what about the guy who woke up today rolled out of the rack and said "I want to try playing offshore"? They may go to the Rx, MW and they may join BCN and bet a futures bet on the A's...no really, it could happen. Then when they get jerked around they tell their friends and some even tell their congressman. If they would have joined a solid book they might have told their friends how fun it is and maybe they could even tell their congressman that offshore gaming should be totally legal.

Yes the example is too the extreme.(hmm...extreme posting, now theres a concept) But my point is that these operators who are knocking down fortunes, they have a responsibility to the industry and to the new players. I think they could live up to that responsibility better.

jjgold · 08-11-05, 11:09 AM

I think some players have lost respect for some forum owners due to very poor decisions about books. We will not name names here.

The standards must be tighter and the almight buck cannot get in the way and cloud the forum owners judgement.

Lets face it the big time forums will take money even if they know the book is going to go bankrupt as that is fact.

They are worried about their pocketbooks and not the player.

Sure they put up the smokescreen and get people paid that are having minor issues at books but that is all it is and then they brag how good they are and care for the player

My ass

Illusion · 08-11-05, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by marc

The best thing posters can do, if they are upset about the quality of boks beiong allowed to advertise, is simply walk away. In order to have a profitibale forum, you need both posters and sponsors. If you lose one or the other, you're not making money. So the if the posters threaten to walk away, the forum operators will be forced to respond. Also, if I was a Pinnacle, I would not want my banner next to scam outfit. I am suprised that some of the upper tier books don't have better standards. If I never heard of pinnacle, and if I had a bad experience at BOS, I certainly would not give pinn a shot if I see them both advertising in the same place.

Well said my friend. I am also curious why upper tier books put up with this.

RPM · 08-11-05, 12:41 PM

I think the time is coming where we need to start seeing the POSTERS hold
the forum owners accountable for the books they accept advertising from.

if these forums are going to accept ad money from less than reputable operations,
then we as posters need to refrain from posting at these sites.

the only way these owners will learn, is if it is affecting their pockets...

jjgold · 08-11-05, 12:43 PM

Lets not kid ourselves here , books do benefit from being on the major boards like RX, MW and SBR.

I have reports saying SBR has the most player sign ups out of any site in the world and that is impressive although they all must be selective.

Books even the big ones do want to be on these site beleive me

THE SAGE · 08-11-05, 12:57 PM

You wont find books like BetUs at OPU. We even took down royal 3 days after putting them up after we got word of a slow play.

We are here to protect the players. Thats what all watchdogs should be here for.

SBR_John · 08-11-05, 02:47 PM

Sage,
Yes I remember. The OPU is a good site and I hope players will take time to check it out.

Biggs - strong post and I agree with your opinion on the Rx. I wish they would reconsider. They are the best and they need to set a good example.

As far as Roberto selling to Tej, well, he was working for Royal as an employee. You can't fault him for that. Now you could say he took his sweet azz time to disclose it after he left.

we need to start seeing the POSTERS hold sites accountable

RPM I agree but how? We saw the uprising at MW over BCN. MW waited a few days until the threads got to page 2 and put them back up like nothing happened. Same thing at theRX over BoS. We as posters enjoy posting..are we to leave over who the advertisers are?

RPM · 08-11-05, 03:37 PM

john,

yes. i think that is what needs to happen. over time, the rx has lost a lot of good posters over things like taking on books like bos as advertisers. hell, there is at least one site that was born from people that were tired of the b.s. at therx.

without the posters, there are no advertisers. without the advertisers, there is no money for the site owners. this will force them to reconsider who they do business with...

bigboydan · 08-11-05, 04:54 PM

times are a changing indeed. these forums nowadays need to adapt as well and, be very selective on what books they choose to let sponser there sites.

i think most of the forums are trying to do that right now.

lets look at the ogd for example, they don't care over there and, tell it like it really is no matter what. (gotta love peep for allowing that) i wish more sites would not twist things around, cover it up,ect,ect to keep a sponser (BOS at the rx good example) and, if they do make a bad judgement call admit fault, take responsability, and try to correct the problem the best they can. (TOW has done this just recently with the BCN crap)

Clip Joint · 08-11-05, 04:55 PM

New forums popping up daily...TheRX is a fraction of what it once was and losing its grip quickly. As long as Marty is in control, they are destined for failure. Have you read his posts on his defense of BOS? It is embarassing.

bigboydan · 08-11-05, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by Clip Joint

TheRX is a fraction of what it once was and losing its grip quickly. As long as Marty is in control, they are destined for failure. Have you read his posts on his defense of BOS? It is embarassing.

I think the Rx should offer some kinda of an insurance policy like the major does (you gotta give russ credit for reinstating the policy just recently)

everyone i've mention in my last two posts in this thread all have at least did something to help out the players. but, the Rx hasn't did anything at all and, thats just bad bussiness if you ask me.

square · 08-11-05, 05:01 PM

playing a little different tune

well well well, good grief,

my oh my ....
how we are struming a little "different" song over on this side of the fence friend.
i think you know what would happen if I ran this site friend.

your a :marsububu joke!

Originally posted by THE SHRINK

John,

I will support any site which tries to raise the bar in this industry by NOT ACCEPTING ad dollars from "BAD" books. Simply put, I believe that if a sports book has a history of "slow pay"s or "no pays", then they should not be afforded the privilege to advertise on a premier gambling portal...

Unfortunately, we are seeing some operators who don't seem to care about which books appear on their web site, and money/greed is the driving force behind this. I suppose they figure that it is the PLAYER'S job to do their due diligence before sending monies abroad, but I disagree. There are some players who will always ASSUME that if a sports book is good enough to appear on an established portal, then they must be SAFE.

It's really time to change our approach. By doing so, posters will respect us more and I believe other "good" sports books will want to follow. If I were an advertiser, I'd much rather appear on a site that was endorsing Caviar over rotten fish...

Your site has a sensational list of sports books appearing at the top of this page and I salute you for it...

THE SHRINK

SBR_John · 08-11-05, 05:06 PM

BBD,
Good job by TOW on BCN.

Clip,
You really think so? I don't but I wouldn't bet on my opinion.

I tell you who I feel for: TheRx mod team! That team took the challenge of Shrink leaving(ok being banned which is the same as leaving) and were working hard and making progress. Then for the ownership to take all their steam and list BOS as some kind of phony-bologna Platnium-Elite Business Class client while they are still listed in the Rx's own guide as a "No Pay" (how funny is that

?) it was ugly. I feel for those guys.

DRUNK · 08-11-05, 05:22 PM

As long as the newbies listen too me they will learn something.

King of the one liners is here Buzz.

jjgold · 08-11-05, 05:25 PM

Drunk your a big timer so we will listen

Welcome aboard

DRUNK · 08-11-05, 05:28 PM

JJ..your going too be nice too me in here. At majorwager you kiss the majors ass and bad mouth me.

jjgold · 08-11-05, 05:45 PM

Drunk this is a new board and we have a clean slate

I have no problems with you

DRUNK · 08-11-05, 05:56 PM

lol

RPM · 08-11-05, 07:13 PM

it will be interesting to see how things go over the next couple of years.

you have sbrforum, towforum, and now apparently eog only accepting
advertising from premium books, while rx and mw are apparently
dumping the "watchdog" title and accepting advertising from anyone
that will pay their price.

makes me wonder if acesgold or black rhino could still get a banner up at
one of those places....

jjgold · 08-11-05, 07:18 PM

Possibly Rhino at RX but not at MW

RPM · 08-11-05, 07:20 PM

jj,

why not mw? they are keeping bcn up....

Clip Joint · 08-11-05, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

Clip,
You really think so? I don't but I wouldn't bet on my opinion.

I tell you who I feel for: TheRx mod team! That team took the challenge of Shrink leaving(ok being banned which is the same as leaving) and were working hard and making progress. Then for the ownership to take all their steam and list BOS as some kind of phony-bologna Platnium-Elite Business Class client while they are still listed in the Rx's own guide as a "No Pay" (how funny is that

?) it was ugly. I feel for those guys.

The mods are in an impossible position. They are not even consulted when Marty decides who to accept as an advertiser. They are stuck trying to defend the site and the decision without knowing why they are there themselves.

Marty is in a much different position than Shrink in that there is a lot of competition. Posters have other options. They will always check in to see what is going on at TheRX I am sure, but how long will advertisers put up with Marty's act? With so many other forums these days, books will start to see less and less referrals coming from TheRX and will stop paying outrageous rates to be on "just another forum".

jjgold · 08-11-05, 07:27 PM

Russ has more integrity

The BCN issue was sketchy, I do not feel like re visting it though

I need Texas RPM

GL

Clip Joint · 08-11-05, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

Russ has more integrity

An advertiser promoting BetUS, BCN, and Royal. Tough to mention integrity and those books in the same breath.

RPM · 08-11-05, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Clip Joint

The mods are in an impossible position. They are not even consulted when Marty decides who to accept as an advertiser. They are stuck trying to defend the site and the decision without knowing why they are there themselves.

Marty is in a much different position than Shrink in that there is a lot of competition. Posters have other options. They will always check in to see what is going on at TheRX I am sure, but how long will advertisers put up with Marty's act? With so many other forums these days, books will start to see less and less referrals coming from TheRX and will stop paying outrageous rates to be on "just another forum".

GOOD POINT CLIP...