Bet4aces, Charlie and Neteller all scamers

[marc]

Looks like as we expected bet4aces won't be making any payouts. Site has been down for a few days now. I spoke to Brian on TUesday, he said we'd be paid on Saturday. I called today, first they said that Brian was let go a month ago. When I told them I spoke to Brian just a few days ago, they said I must have the wrong number and suddenly they didn't know who Brian was.

Looks like the only thing Charlie accomplished was giving us false hope and assisting the owners and stalling for time while they packed thier bags. Charlie, please let us know where you are working so we can be sure not to play there.

As for Neteller, they are thieves like everyone else. Bet4aces has $800 in thier Netelelr account. I asked Netelelr if there is anything they can do. Neteller's response is that they don't interfere with merchants withdrawals policies. I tired to explain that the site is a scam and hasn't paid anyone in months. Neteller was like, you claim they are a scam, but we don't know that they are. They offered to foward my complain, and maybe someone would look into it. Basically, they knowingly allow thier merchants to steal if they so choose, and Neteller will turn a blind eye and pretend that they don't know whats going on. It is utterly reprehensible.

[tomcast]

I disagree with your opinions on Netellers role. Everything you are reporting that they said sounds reasonable to me. They are not the police. I'm glad they don't just take the word of everyone who calls up saying some site they have a gripe with is a scam.

But I agree with the rest. Once again I thank Chester and Royal Sports for bailing me out and I warn people to never trust TOW.

[marc]

Tomcast,

I don't expect Neteller to take my word, or the word of any particular player. But when you have a site, whose GM openly states that they have no money, and payouts won't go out for at leats 3 motnhs, Neteller should lokk at oit. When sites like SBR call them a scam, Neteller should take notice. When neteller sees players requesting withdrawals over the neteller site, only to have them all declined, Neteller should look at it.

For Neteller to say that they are unaware that some of thier merchants or pure scams is a farce. They are turning a blind eye. You could have two coworkers who each log into thier netelelr account on the same day, and netelelr will close thier account, because they se two people looging into 2 different accounts from the same ip address. It takes virtually nothing for neteller to close your account and request additional information. But when it comes to the merchants, they don't care, as long as Neteller gets to keep 3.9% of all the stolen money.

Netelelr doens't have to believe my "claims". But don't mock me by giving me some worthless VIP status, and then when I call to say I was defrauded by a merchant, act like there is nothing they can do.

[tacomax]

Maybe Neteller could do more, although there's little doubt about that. But they're really not the people who should be policing the sportsbooks. What about the Costa Rica government who gives out the gaming licences? Shouldn't they be the ones policing the illegal and the scam outfits?

[TLasVegas702]

marc...I fully suported you

marc...

do us a favor and post the form from netteller. If all of us send the form, they will take action. I lost $15000 and more to those mutherfucker...charles and john wilking...eat my vomit mixed with equal portion of diarrhea. HOpe you guys get herpes in the mouth and anal so that you can suffer eternity!!

[marc]

Tacomax,

What you hvae to remember is that Netelelr is not a bank. It's not an escrow service. All the money is in Netellers name. Bet4aces has $800 of stolen money in thier Netelelr account. Neteller has now been offically made aware that bet4aces is a scam, and stole ten's of thousands of dollars.

Neteller can either
1) pretend like they don't know anything and let the owners of bet4aces keep the money and continue to steal
2) Let bet4aces keep the $800 but close thier account so they can't steal any more
3) close bet4aces account and give the $800 to those of us who were robbed.

Neteller is not some uninvolved 3rd party. These thieves are using Neteller's services to steal from us. That makes Neteller Involved. Neteller is othe one who is actually holding the stolen funds. That makes Neteller involed. Neteller sees the money coming in, they see the declined withdrawal requests. Neteller knows the type of compnaies they are dealing with, and the type of people who run these companies. They know full well that they have merchnats who are thieves. Their refusal to take any action to prevent the thievery makes them complicit.

It alwasys amzes me at how much people hate guys like the shronk and the major and Roberto for advertising sub par sites. I never understood why none of that anger is ever directed at Neteller for taking on these so called sportsbooks and casinos when Netelelr can plainly see that they have no money to fund thier accounts.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think Neteller's practice of turning a blind eye to these scam operators is putting them in some serious legal liabillity

[Santo]

How would you suppose Neteller disperse the $800 amongst however many affected customers there are?

[marc]

Santo,

If it was me, I'd put the money aside and disburse it evenly to the first 40 people who request it, or until 15 days are up, whichever comes first.

Because this was clearly theft, I think the appropiate thing would also be for neteller to refund to the players all the money neteller collected from us when we made our deposits. Basicaly all I am asking is that Neteller act honorably. Neteller allowed one of thier merchants to rob dozens of thier clients. And Neteller made a very nice profit as a result. Why is it so unreasonable to expect Neteller to return the stolen funds.

[tacomax]

It alwasys amzes me at how much people hate guys like the shronk and the major and Roberto for advertising sub par sites. I never understood why none of that anger is ever directed at Neteller for taking on these so called sportsbooks and casinos when Netelelr can plainly see that they have no money to fund thier accounts.

I fully understand your point, but I don't think Neteller should be as liable as you think they should be. Why aren't the scam operations being identified and closed down? Why are they continually allowed to operate out of Costa Rica?

Neteller is only one means of money to deposit with. If Neteller close down their account then what about all the other methods of payment? There are any number of ways to get money out of customers. Sure you close one door, but there are many other doors for the scambook. But shutting down the operation at source can stop the scambooks full stop.

[TLD]

I’m not sure what the best thing for Neteller to do is in a situation like this, but I definitely agree that there’s something amiss when Neteller goes with a “guilty until proven innocent” approach to its customers and freezes their accounts over tiny red flags like logging in from a different computer, yet when it comes to merchants their attitude is “Hey, we’re not the police. We don’t know, and it’s not up to us to know if a merchant is a crook. We just transfer money.”

Sounds like they see it as a lot more in their self-interest to help books avoid being scammed than to help players avoid being scammed.

[marc]

Tacomax,

I think TLD answered your question. It would be great if COsta RIca would take the issue seriously, but they seem to willing to let the sportsbook business be like the wild wild west wiht no laws. And I don't mind that. If they want to let the business be every man for himself, I'm all for that. But as TLD pointed out, when it comes to Neteller, they treat the players like they are thieves. They even have a so called investigations department to review players information. But when it comes to merchants, Netellers approach is that mercnahts can do anything they want.

Bet4aces would not have been able to steal as much as they did, if it wasn't for neteller. A lot of forum players won't look at books who don't have a neteller account.. Cutting off the source of funding might not be the ideal, but it would certainly help. And the fact that neteller is willing to take on anyone who has a website, just makes these scams easier. It almost seems easier to open a merchant account then it does a player account.

I guess my issue with Neteller is atht companies that are run by honest people, typically don't knowlingly do business with scam thieves. The fact that Netelelr doens't seemed bothered by who some of thier merchants are, tells me a lot about the people who are in charge.

DOes anyone know where charlie is working. I'd love to give him a call, and ask what happened to all of his "very hard work" WHat kills me about scum like Charlie and crew and that they could have just told us 4 months ago, we weren't going to get piad. Dragging this out for anohter 4 months only made the theft worse not better.

[TLasVegas702]

you guys got it all wrong

how do you disperse 800 among all players?

here is my suggestion: take the 800 and make a bet on NFL that we're all agree upon. Keep doubling it down until we reach our goal $25-$50,000. Heheheeh

[pags11]

I think it'd be best if companies like neteller separate themselves from the bet4aces of the world...once they get enough complaints, they should investigate and cut these scammers off...as much as I hate to say it, they are guilty by association...