OT- Healthcare in US??

SBR Lou · 02-22-09, 06:35 PM

Hey Gemoka,

Enjoy the show.

If you have a job, or can afford your own (in the States), then the health care system really isn't that bad.

The US is just a country that wants everything tailored to the poor or those that do not want to work for themselves, at least under President Obama.

Gemoka · 02-22-09, 06:36 PM

.

durito · 02-22-09, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by CrazyLou

Hey Gemoka,

Enjoy the show.

If you have a job, or can afford your own (in the States), then the health care system really isn't that bad.

The US is just a country that wants everything tailored to the poor or those that do not want to work for themselves, at least under President Obama.

I think you get dumber by the day, er pound perhaps.

fiveteamer · 02-22-09, 06:51 PM

wow.

durito came out swinging with that comment.

InTheHole · 02-22-09, 06:53 PM

So if we have the worst healthcare system then why do people from England and other countries come here for operations

InTheHole · 02-22-09, 06:53 PM

And you don't need insurance for emergent care

Gemoka · 02-22-09, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by InTheHole

So if we have the worst healthcare system then why do people from England and other countries come here for operations

I meant the set up and structure of the healthcare not the operations.

InTheHole · 02-22-09, 07:05 PM

arent setup and structure sort of the same thing....our government cant deliver mail. I sure as hell don't want them to manage my care.

pavyracer · 02-22-09, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by InTheHole

So if we have the worst healthcare system then why do people from England and other countries come here for operations

My guess is the government of England is footing the bill for the operation at the US Hospital for the English patient. Since most hospitals in the US are private the best doctors are hired since they pay them above the market salaries whereas in England the doctors are government employees and they don't make that much.

Gemoka · 02-22-09, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by InTheHole

arent setup and structure sort of the same thing....our government cant deliver mail. I sure as hell don't want them to manage my care.

Set up, how originated in the first place

Structure, how it is run now.

Thats what I meant anyways.

Panic · 02-22-09, 07:42 PM

The problem with free healthcare is that it takes forever before you are able to see a doctor for whatever ails you. Why? Because everybody and there mother goes to see a doctor when their nose runs or they got a scratch from falling down. Its free so they go everytime something minor happens. Instead of going to the pharmacy and picking up some cold medicine or band aids or whatever you need for minor shit, they run to the doctor. That is the problem with free healthcare. That is why everyone from other countries come here. They cant get in to see their doctor over there.

InTheHole · 02-22-09, 07:45 PM

panic is a genius and by the way nothings free

mmike032 · 02-22-09, 07:55 PM

I cant imagine what the ER rooms will be like if there is free healthcare. I only go when it is an absolute emergency cause I hate hospitals and doctors. but I've never been in the ER when there wasnt at least 20 people in there for BS like a cold. of course these are the folks on govt assisted insurance.

ryanXL977 · 02-22-09, 07:56 PM

any country this rich should have free healthcare for every legal citizen and taxpayer

The Seer · 02-22-09, 07:59 PM

In the US it boils down to money like everything else. This is the greediest country in the world. Insurance companies are crooked as hell.

fiveteamer · 02-22-09, 08:18 PM

You do not want to go to an ER in Canada.

mmike032 · 02-22-09, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by fiveteamer

You do not want to go to an ER in Canada.

is it b/c all the people in there for BS.
last time I went to the ER was cause I damn near cut my finger off and still had to wait about an hour before they took me back

Gemoka · 02-22-09, 08:30 PM

Interesting film, it seems even if you have health insurance you sometimes get screwed if you already have a one of a long list of illnesses?

Sucks that heroes that helped out at 9/11 get fukked over. That is not good at all.

Had to laugh when he went to England and couldnt believe you didnt pay a cent.

pavyracer · 02-22-09, 08:31 PM

If you go to the ER on your own in the US with a cut finger but without insurance you will be given the middle finger.

mmike032 · 02-22-09, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by pavyracer

If you go to the ER on your own in the US with a cut finger but without insurance you will be given the middle finger.

this is true, I have no insurance.
I am currently on a payment plan with the hospital for the rest of my life due to a bad year last year with multiple trips to the ER and a surgery

fiveteamer · 02-22-09, 08:36 PM

socialized health care is the lesser of the evils.

ryanXL977 · 02-22-09, 08:37 PM

weird, we have free clinics here. i guess thats horrible sf socialism. free clinics, staffed by volunteer doctors and nurses, as well as internists, on their days off

spooky commies

InTheHole · 02-22-09, 08:40 PM

We have free clinics but they operate through grants. If you make under 12k nj your eligible for medicaid, 35k for families and there is always charity care for individuals who cannot afford the care. Obama just expanded the s-chip program so now there is care for the "under-insured". I know are heathcare system is a problem but there are services out there.

Gemoka · 02-22-09, 08:43 PM

Moore is a scumbag, its fine saying Cuba is good for healthcare but what about the the flawed communist values they are held to. fukiing reds.

InTheHole · 02-22-09, 08:44 PM

louisvillekid · 02-22-09, 08:47 PM

this is too complicated of a problem to answer. But i'll throw a few things out about it.

Doctors want to be like rock stars, they want to sell books, be on boards of directors of things, and many other pet projects. Used to be a doctor was someone who wanted to help people and had compassion, now they all just seem jaded. It's probably the system to blame, but who knows.

As for taking forever to see a doctor in the free HC country's, i don't know, but i do know here in the U.S. it is the same. Even when i have an appointment to see my general physician, when i get there i have to sit and wait an hour or better, it's always packed.
Which brings me to the Mudder Focking drug companies. I have been in the waiting room a many of times and there is always 2 or sometimes 3-4 drug reps sitting with there laptops and blackberries, waiting to talk to the Dr.'s , trying to push there drugs, seeing if they(the Dr.'s) are moving the drugs for them.
I hate that the general physicians offices are always filled with pamphlets on the tables with the magizines, and when you finally get in the exam room, they make you wait some more, and it's filled with charts and more pamphlets by numerous drug companies. Oh and not mention the daily TV ads.
Then when the Dr. wants to send you to a specialist cause he don't want to get sued for malpractice, rather pass that on to another Dr. . When you visit that specialist , well after usually waiting a month, you can't ever see them. When you do get in to see them, the waiting room is filled with exotic travel magazines, personal yachting and flying magazines, i guess that is to flaunt what they are doing every other month that they are "booked" or "out of town" when you try and get an appointment.
I was sent to see a dermatologist about 5 years ago, and i think i seen the dude 3 times in 2 years, eveytime i would call to make an appointment it was 3-4 months before he could see me.

The price that Dr.'s charge varies from health insurance provider , each PPO or HMO or whatever, set an agreement with what they will pay for certain things. Like you would think that an MRI or CAT scan machine is pretty much the same price for most hospitals, but depending on your insurance one might charge 2000, the next 1200, another 1500, all because of price differences set by what each insurance provider will pay.

I also have always found it fascinating in those ads for helping kids with a cleft pallet(?), they advertise for 250 it provides the surgery. I'm sure the Dr.'s who offer their services for the procedure, probably right the deductions off their taxes as 10,000. Cause i know when you see those plastic surgeon shows , people are charged a shit load for cosmetic work, well not as much if you have insurance and are getting something routine done. I got injured at work about 5-6 years ago, smashed my finger open, went to the hospital and they had to clean it up and put some stitches in. I remember getting a copy of the statement sent to me even though workman's comp was covering it. The breakdown of the bill was crazy, it was almost 2 grand, for a FU*King couple stitches. I just assume because workers comp was picking up the tab , they were jacking the shit up.
That is what is crazy, routine stuff people need gets charged a fortune, but shit people elect to have because they are vain, they can get done for a lot less.

the whole malpractice shit has driven up premiums for Dr's, that they act like they can't work without charging a fortune.

And if you don't have insurance, they will see you and treat you, but they will charge you more than what any insurance company would of paid them for their services.
I remember an article a few years back in the paper, about some single mom w/o insurance, she had a minor stroke and after all was said and done she owed the hospital and the doctor(s) who treated her, like 50,000.
She got the paper and maybe a local tv reporter involved and they investigated the prices she was charged.
Basically the hospital said, if she didn't have insurance she should of stated that when she arrived and filled out the proper forms and that they offer a 10% discount on services if you say you are uninsured. Well she was unconscious when she arrived, and either you have insurance or you don't. I seem to remeber the price breakdown if she had insurance would of been like 12,000, and of course the reporters said that they couldn't get an exact quote of what 3 of the top insurance providers in the area would pay out for certain services, cause that is inside company info, they have to keep that private because of the competeing nature of the healthcare business, that's right, Healthcare is a BUSINESS, not out to help people, but i'm sure when Dr.s take their vow of oath to serve mankind, it still states they will help the sick and the poor no matter what.
Now i'm not blaming the Dr.'s, they are just caught up in this system of greed of privatization of the whole healthcare field. Some want to be playboys and drive flashy cars and vacation a quarter of the year, but i'm sure other still want to serve and help people.

i could go on and on about this, but i'm tried of typing.

Matt Rain · 02-22-09, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by mmike032

is it b/c all the people in there for BS.

Haha, no. It is because our system is chronically understaffed and underfunded. If you need any kind of fancy surgery, forget about it, you might be on a waiting list for 2 years.

F*ck free healthcare. Gimme back all the taxes I paid for nothing.

mmike032 · 02-22-09, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by louisvillekid

this is too complicated of a problem to answer. But i'll throw a few things out about it.

Doctors want to be like rock stars, they want to sell books, be on boards of directors of things, and many other pet projects. Used to be a doctor was someone who wanted to help people and had compassion, now they all just seem jaded. It's probably the system to blame, but who knows.

As for taking forever to see a doctor in the free HC country's, i don't know, but i do know here in the U.S. it is the same. Even when i have an appointment to see my general physician, when i get there i have to sit and wait an hour or better, it's always packed.
Which brings me to the Mudder Focking drug companies. I have been in the waiting room a many of times and there is always 2 or sometimes 3-4 drug reps sitting with there laptops and blackberries, waiting to talk to the Dr.'s , trying to push there drugs, seeing if they(the Dr.'s) are moving the drugs for them.
I hate that the general physicians offices are always filled with pamphlets on the tables with the magizines, and when you finally get in the exam room, they make you wait some more, and it's filled with charts and more pamphlets by numerous drug companies. Oh and not mention the daily TV ads.
Then when the Dr. wants to send you to a specialist cause he don't want to get sued for malpractice, rather pass that on to another Dr. . When you visit that specialist , well after usually waiting a month, you can't ever see them. When you do get in to see them, the waiting room is filled with exotic travel magazines, personal yachting and flying magazines, i guess that is to flaunt what they are doing every other month that they are "booked" or "out of town" when you try and get an appointment.
I was sent to see a dermatologist about 5 years ago, and i think i seen the dude 3 times in 2 years, eveytime i would call to make an appointment it was 3-4 months before he could see me.

The price that Dr.'s charge varies from health insurance provider , each PPO or HMO or whatever, set an agreement with what they will pay for certain things. Like you would think that an MRI or CAT scan machine is pretty much the same price for most hospitals, but depending on your insurance one might charge 2000, the next 1200, another 1500, all because of price differences set by what each insurance provider will pay.

I also have always found it fascinating in those ads for helping kids with a cleft pallet(?), they advertise for 250 it provides the surgery. I'm sure the Dr.'s who offer their services for the procedure, probably right the deductions off their taxes as 10,000. Cause i know when you see those plastic surgeon shows , people are charged a shit load for cosmetic work, well not as much if you have insurance and are getting something routine done. I got injured at work about 5-6 years ago, smashed my finger open, went to the hospital and they had to clean it up and put some stitches in. I remember getting a copy of the statement sent to me even though workman's comp was covering it. The breakdown of the bill was crazy, it was almost 2 grand, for a FU*King couple stitches. I just assume because workers comp was picking up the tab , they were jacking the shit up.
That is what is crazy, routine stuff people need gets charged a fortune, but shit people elect to have because they are vain, they can get done for a lot less.

the whole malpractice shit has driven up premiums for Dr's, that they act like they can't work without charging a fortune.

And if you don't have insurance, they will see you and treat you, but they will charge you more than what any insurance company would of paid them for their services.
I remember an article a few years back in the paper, about some single mom w/o insurance, she had a minor stroke and after all was said and done she owed the hospital and the doctor(s) who treated her, like 50,000.
She got the paper and maybe a local tv reporter involved and they investigated the prices she was charged.
Basically the hospital said, if she didn't have insurance she should of stated that when she arrived and filled out the proper forms and that they offer a 10% discount on services if you say you are uninsured. Well she was unconscious when she arrived, and either you have insurance or you don't. I seem to remeber the price breakdown if she had insurance would of been like 12,000, and of course the reporters said that they couldn't get an exact quote of what 3 of the top insurance providers in the area would pay out for certain services, cause that is inside company info, they have to keep that private because of the competeing nature of the healthcare business, that's right, Healthcare is a BUSINESS, not out to help people, but i'm sure when Dr.s take their vow of oath to serve mankind, it still states they will help the sick and the poor no matter what.
Now i'm not blaming the Dr.'s, they are just caught up in this system of greed of privatization of the whole healthcare field. Some want to be playboys and drive flashy cars and vacation a quarter of the year, but i'm sure other still want to serve and help people.

i could go on and on about this, but i'm tried of typing.

this post is spot on. I was going over the bill I got for my surgery. Now I got about 3 different bills ( hospital/ surgeon/ anesthesia dr.)
the hospital charged me about a grand for anesthesia and the anesthesiologist also charged me about a grand for anethesia.

tell me that aint some BS.
and I was charged twice to be put under cause when I came out of surgery and came to I was bleeding all over the place and they had to put me back under to stop the bleeding. wasnt my fault they didnt stop the bleeding but I was charged for it

InTheHole · 02-22-09, 09:06 PM

^ it an f ing mess....lets just dump a ton of funds into prevention