Why do these players thank God?

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  • Seaweed
    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
    • 01-19-12
    • 26318

    #71
    Originally posted by ChalkyDog
    Point being, if you want to believe in god, and you express this belief publicly - fine. Just expect to be treated like an adult who believes in magic/tooth fairies and other human creations.

    The idea of god is a cancer to the human condition.
    There are no good reasons to think atheism is true, and many reasons to think it is false. Chalky, are you 100% positive God does not exist? Take a moment to read the question again. If someone asks me if Aliens exists, i would simply say I do not know, or i do not think there is because of the lack of evidence. Therefore, at best, your position can be agnosticism. You are not 100% sure there is no God, you do not know for certain, but you lean that there isn't one based on your thinking. However, this still leaves open the possibility of God existing, just that it has not been proven to be convincing enough to you. At this point, it is important to examine your arguments against the existence of God. Arguments that would have to prove the possibility of God existing to be impossible based on reason, and the fact that the existence of God would be a contradiction to itself. If you can prove to me that God existing would be a contradiction, then this would prove atheism to be true. So, I would like to hear your arguments on why you think God cannot exist.

    I will examine the arguments you present and prove that there is no good reason to think atheism as a worldview is true.

    Before you can find out if a certain God exists, you will have to look at the arguments to figure out if God exists at all. Remember, we may not be able to comprehend how God knows all truths or how he created the world, but we can understand that such tasks are not impossible for an infinite being like Him. Just as we may not fully understand how a nuclear reactor works because we are not nuclear engineers, but the facts that are provided to us by them allow us to have a basic understanding.

    Proving God's existence is like shorthand for saying that the balance of evidence in favor of God's existence outweighs the evidence against God's existence. If we think of going to court, we are able to prove someone guilty of a crime by using cumulative pieces of evidence that point toward a particular verdict. There is no long mathematical equation, instead there are pieces of evidence, and while no one piece of evidence proves one's guilt, taken all together, it may very well accomplish this task. This is how we explain the existence of God.

    If people believe there faith to be true, they should have no problem sharing it with others. Afterall, sharing it could effect somebody elses eternal destiny, how much would we have to hate somebody not to prostelytize? how much would a believer have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?? Chalky, being open to what is true, as opposed to what we want to be true is important.

    You may want emperical proofs, that can be detected with your five senses. However, things can exist without empirical evidence. For example, the existence of other minds is not proven by direct scientific evidence alone. The mind, which is a collection of thoughts, cannot be observed like a brain. I can't observe your thoughts, I must assume that you have them because i do. Second, the existence of moral truths, such the fact that it is wrong to cause suffering just for the purpose to increase the cause suffering cannot be proven scientifically. All science does is tell us what suffering is and how it occurs. However, science does not tell us if suffering should not be caused. We cannot restrict evidence of God to be empirical evidence. The fact that objective moral truths exists indicate that it must have come from a moral law giver outside space and time.

    Have you read up on how unlikely it is for us to be conversing right now? The fine tuning design of our universe? The universe with constants and conditions that permit life rather than prohibit life is extremely unlikely. In order for evolution to have taken place, the fine tuning of the initial constants and conditions had to be incromprehensibly fine tuned. If you say evolution explains design, well once again, what explains the extremely unlikelines of a universe where the evolution of life is even possible? British astronomer Martin Rees identifies six universal physical constants and conditions that if they were even altered by a fraction of a percent, it would eliminate any possibilty of intelligent life evolving in our universe. We can look at the gravatational force, and its weakness explained by Rees which proves that gravitiy is 10 to the 36th power weaker compared to other forces tihin atoms. If gravity were a tiny bit stronger, none of us would be here at SBR or alive. If it were stronger, stars would burn out very quickly and planets would be tiny. Any life forms on thos planets smaller than an ant would be crushed. "only the middle ground, where the expansion and the gravational strength balance to within one part in 10 to the 15th power at once second after the big bang, allows life to form. In the first seconds of the universe, matter could have not differed by more than one part in one quadrillion or else it would have collapsed. Now as for the expansion rate of the universe, Alexander Vilenkin writes "A tiny deviation from the required power results in a cosmological disaster, such as the fireball collapsing under its own weight or the universe being nearly empty...This is the most notorious and perplexing case of fine-tuning in physics. When we look at the arrangement of thermal energy just after the big bang, Oxford Physicist Roger Penrose calculated that the odds of our universe having such a low disorder at the begining of time are 1 in 10 to the 1oth to the 123th power. This number is so big that the zeroes would stretch across the galaxy. You would be more likely winning 10,000 lotteries in a row and get struck by lightening everytime you won than finding a universe with low disorder at its begining. Out of all the possible universes it is much more likely that there would be no life at all and the fact that our universe accomodates life against such incredible odds requires an explanation. It seems that the universes immense size and emptiness is actually required for intelligent life to develop via Darwinian evolution. If we played poker, and I won 10 Royal Flushes in a row, would you say "well, Seaweed is lucky today and it happened by chance" or would you suspect that I was designing the cards a certain way for victory and there has to be someone behind it? Just like the poker game, our knowledge of the universe points to someone behind it. If you wouldn't accept luck in that case, why would you accept it for the extreme unlikeness of a universe that could support intelligent life?

    Fine-tuning is just one thing you need to look at, as are objective moral truths, the universe does not have to exist, as well as the first cause argument and many others.

    I won't continue right now but I'll let you try to prove Atheism to be the more rational reason that God,and prove that the existence of God is impossible, a contradiction, and that if God existed the universe would not look like it is.
    Comment
    • Goat Milk
      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
      • 03-24-10
      • 25850

      #72
      Originally posted by The Kraken
      Bingo
      They thank God for their talent, their strength, the ability to give them the will to endure when they weren't so fortunate before.
      Cause Sleep is the Cousin of Death
      Comment
      • Goat Milk
        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
        • 03-24-10
        • 25850

        #73
        You really think that a world this meticulous would exist without a higher power. Everything is crafted to tee. The human mind being the greatest creation. God invented evolution so that ppl would doubt his existence. This is a way to separate believers from the nons.

        Also - why don't other species evolve like humans? does a shark grow limbs after millions of years? are birds smarter today than they were 10,000 years ago? what is taking monkeys so long from inventing their own computers?

        get a clue
        Cause Sleep is the Cousin of Death
        Comment
        • opie1988
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 09-12-10
          • 23429

          #74
          Originally posted by Goat Milk
          They thank God for their talent, their strength, the ability to give them the will to endure when they weren't so fortunate before.


          I know we've had our differences, but that's a wonderful response, pal.
          Comment
          • govolz
            SBR Wise Guy
            • 03-26-12
            • 952

            #75
            The main thing and if you want to go the science route and say that some how something collided and this string of coincidences happened...

            now hold on just sit there and think about that... people believe that some huge rocks collided and all of a sudden the world became and coincidence after coincidence happened... and now we have a world...

            now lets look at it from a bettor perspective... if you go on a 15 game heater and win 15 in a row which is almost impossible youre amazed... in that span alot of coincidences have to happen and luck... to win that many in a row... thats 15 wins... something that simple... now take the world that works off of eachother... everything exist and works together... so youre telling me millions of coincidences happened and the world just happens to survive bc of these coincidences?

            but back to the science folks... tell me one thing thats all i ask... atoms make up everything in the world... we have scientist that can make a sheep from another sheeps dna but have no clue how to make an atom which is the most common thing in the world... where did that first atom come from that started the world? who created it? an atom has never just popped up out of nowhere... so tell me where that first atom came from
            Comment
            • aman86
              SBR MVP
              • 08-29-09
              • 3115

              #76
              god and logic don't make sense....but religion keeps the world in order and limits total choas if people actually knew the truth!
              Comment
              • bubblebuttluv
                SBR Hall of Famer
                • 11-13-12
                • 5179

                #77
                Originally posted by billysink
                I am real late to the party here but lemme ask you one thing. All of ya.

                Who the fukk you thank when shit goin real good and you feelin
                real bad about your self

                Unless you the baddest muther fukker on earth you lookin somewhere to give props.

                Positive Energy.

                Can't judge it.
                More and more, billysink sounds to me like he may be the baddest mother fukker on earth.

                billysink or Rocket both serious badasses.
                Comment
                • Smoke
                  SBR Aristocracy
                  • 10-09-09
                  • 48111

                  #78
                  Originally posted by govolz
                  The main thing and if you want to go the science route and say that some how something collided and this string of coincidences happened...

                  now hold on just sit there and think about that... people believe that some huge rocks collided and all of a sudden the world became and coincidence after coincidence happened... and now we have a world...

                  now lets look at it from a bettor perspective... if you go on a 15 game heater and win 15 in a row which is almost impossible youre amazed... in that span alot of coincidences have to happen and luck... to win that many in a row... thats 15 wins... something that simple... now take the world that works off of eachother... everything exist and works together... so youre telling me millions of coincidences happened and the world just happens to survive bc of these coincidences?

                  but back to the science folks... tell me one thing thats all i ask... atoms make up everything in the world... we have scientist that can make a sheep from another sheeps dna but have no clue how to make an atom which is the most common thing in the world... where did that first atom come from that started the world? who created it? an atom has never just popped up out of nowhere... so tell me where that first atom came from
                  the first atom was created by god
                  Comment
                  • DrStale
                    SBR Hall of Famer
                    • 12-07-08
                    • 9692

                    #79
                    Originally posted by Goat Milk
                    You really think that a world this meticulous would exist without a higher power. Everything is crafted to tee. The human mind being the greatest creation. God invented evolution so that ppl would doubt his existence. This is a way to separate believers from the nons.

                    Also - why don't other species evolve like humans? does a shark grow limbs after millions of years? are birds smarter today than they were 10,000 years ago? what is taking monkeys so long from inventing their own computers?

                    get a clue
                    Sharks don't need limbs
                    Yes, birds are smarter as a group. Example: dodo birds were flightless morons and are now extinct
                    Monkeys have invented their own computers. We are those monkeys.

                    LOL at "everything is crafted to a tee"
                    Yeah "God" did a fantastic job creating the human mind. The same human mind that is destroying their own planet and is capable of genocide, rape, torture, murder and watching the Kardashians. If this is what's in God's image I want nothing to do with that lunatic.
                    Originally posted by Dark Horse
                    If with religion you mean belief system, your belief system is your religion. Again, it matters not what it is. You believe in it, you are loyal to it, would defend it, and yet have no proof of it, other than that, at one point or another, you chose to believe in it. Self-hypnosis. What if there were a snapping of fingers that broke the hypnosis?
                    Comment
                    • KingJD31
                      SBR Hall of Famer
                      • 11-04-11
                      • 8167

                      #80
                      It's called free will
                      Originally posted by DrStale
                      Sharks don't need limbs
                      Yes, birds are smarter as a group. Example: dodo birds were flightless morons and are now extinct
                      Monkeys have invented their own computers. We are those monkeys.

                      LOL at "everything is crafted to a tee"
                      Yeah "God" did a fantastic job creating the human mind. The same human mind that is destroying their own planet and is capable of genocide, rape, torture, murder and watching the Kardashians. If this is what's in God's image I want nothing to do with that lunatic.
                      Comment
                      • KingJD31
                        SBR Hall of Famer
                        • 11-04-11
                        • 8167

                        #81
                        If it really bothers you that much thenyou're a fuking douche bag
                        Comment
                        • zizoudane10
                          SBR Hall of Famer
                          • 03-27-12
                          • 7272

                          #82
                          Opie, you know Camus didn't believe in a God, right?
                          In fact he was an absolute atheist. Period.
                          However, he didn't want to "take" God away from people who choose to believe, but HE definitely didn't.
                          Comment
                          • zizoudane10
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 03-27-12
                            • 7272

                            #83
                            Originally posted by Seaweed
                            [bla bla bla bla]
                            Seaweed, I told you before: Don't even try to argue on a philosophical basis. You are lost on that one.

                            Atheists don't need to prove shit.

                            I could easily say: The Mount Everest is made out of chocolate and has only stone on the outside. You'd say: Ok, I'll dig. But I'll say: Wow, wait wait wait...: Thing is: It really IS out of chocolate, but whenever a human tries to dig for it, it transforms into stone. It totally is out of chocolate though.

                            Or please, try to prove, that there aren't unicorns. Do it. I can easily say that there are unicorns and you can't do shit to prove me wrong.

                            You are saying there is a god. You made the initial statement. So it's your turn to prove there is. Atheists are reacting to your initial claim, so you are the one that has to prove first. But of course....: "You can't prove there is a god, you have to BELIEVE."

                            If a Voodoo priest tells you he can read the future out of chicken bones and your piss you'll laugh your ass off. If a guy runs around in your city claiming he is Jesus Christ and it's the end of days, you'd say he's nuts, needs to see a shrink.
                            But you expect others to believe in a Jesus Christ Zombie? Water into wine? lol. Okay, enjoy.
                            Comment
                            • marcoloco
                              SBR MVP
                              • 07-05-10
                              • 3986

                              #84
                              why are people so obsessed with what others believe in?
                              battling back in forth... who are you really trying to convince?
                              Comment
                              • Ghenghis Kahn
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 01-02-12
                                • 19734

                                #85
                                the best is when mma fighters thank god after they knock people out unconscious.

                                if i were god i would prefer the appreciation from the fighters that got knocked out and regained their conscious.

                                wouldn't that make more sense? but that's just me...
                                Comment
                                • DrStale
                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                  • 12-07-08
                                  • 9692

                                  #86
                                  Originally posted by KingJD31
                                  If it really bothers you that much thenyou're a fuking douche bag
                                  I'm providing a counterexample to his example. If it really bothers you that much feel free to stay out of the thread.
                                  Originally posted by Dark Horse
                                  If with religion you mean belief system, your belief system is your religion. Again, it matters not what it is. You believe in it, you are loyal to it, would defend it, and yet have no proof of it, other than that, at one point or another, you chose to believe in it. Self-hypnosis. What if there were a snapping of fingers that broke the hypnosis?
                                  Comment
                                  • ChalkyDog
                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                    • 10-02-11
                                    • 9598

                                    #87
                                    Damn, I apologize, Weeder.

                                    I forgot about this thread.

                                    Here is as concise as I can sum it up:

                                    If you plan to enjoy heaven/paradise/some form of euphoric afterlife while multitudes of souls are tortured for eternity, then you are as much a sociopath as the god you worship.

                                    That right there is the crux, for me at least. Just that basic underlying premise, if you fall under that belief system - I find you irreconcilably fukked in the head. Literal or not, if your vision of the afterlife and your actions on earth are geared towards an afterlife close to that, you're mentally deranged.

                                    Once again, I say that with a crucifix hanging from my rear view mirror, and bed side with a pendant to Saint Anthony around my neck 24/7 for going on 20 years now (the pendant).
                                    Comment
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