Ichiro Suziki HOF?

[OmgUrMom]

fo sure hall of famer

[scarp]

If he keeps it up another year or two he will

[teecee]

Oh come on. You "heard"? From where?

He'll retire before 50.



Terrible argument. PEDs do aid in performance. Jason Grimsley sucked even though he took PEDs? This proves something? I mean, seriously? Because there are bad players who took it and didn't become better, this means it doesn't make much difference?

You or I could take all the PEDs we wanted and still not become a good baseball player. You have to have talent first.

Barry Bonds never would've hit over 50 homers in a season without steroids.

Clemens would not have lasted as long as he did without all the crap he took.

The difference is that both those guys were very talented, and were able to achieve higher levels with the help of PEDs. There are many more examples of this.

No, Jason Grimsley and Alex Escobar aren't going to become All Stars by injecting some steroids. There is no magic formula that will transform you from mediocre/bad to great.

Terrible argument? Okay, but we only rank on players who woulda been HOFers anyway. It's called jealousy. I could give two shits about what other people do with their lives. It added entertainment value to the game, IMO. MLB surely didn't care, that is, until they got caught. So many people feel betrayed by all this. That's funny to me. I want to see 73 home runs hit by one player. No one really knows for a fact that Bonds could not have hit 50 w/o ..... whatever he took, so we really need to give that up. All these players on the list are inevitably going to be compared with other players on that list. So, let's just make a rule saying no one between 1990 and 2005 get in the HOF. Maybe then, we (or most of us turds) can all be happy.

What do PED's do for the players? I need a somewhat detailed analysis, b/c I haven't a clue. It makes you hit it where they ain't more often? It's give you a great eye/discipline at the plate? If they make you recover from injury faster, then I think that is a good thing, b/c I want to see the stars play, especially when I'm paying so much for the fam to go watch.

[yisman]

Some PEDs give you increased strength.

Some give you increased stamina.

Some help you avoid injuries or recover faster (muscle recovery in general).

Surely you can see where athletes can benefit from these things.

For example, the blood doping in cycling. EPO gives someone a decided advantage.

[2daBank]

no doubt, has to be considered among the best hitters of all time

[yisman]

Terrible argument? Okay, but we only rank on players who woulda been HOFers anyway. It's called jealousy. I could give two shits about what other people do with their lives. It added entertainment value to the game, IMO. MLB surely didn't care, that is, until they got caught. So many people feel betrayed by all this. That's funny to me. I want to see 73 home runs hit by one player. No one really knows for a fact that Bonds could not have hit 50 w/o ..... whatever he took, so we really need to give that up.

Actually, no. Your athletic peak is in your mid to late 20s.

If you peak at 36 and start hitting homers like you never did before, clearly you were on something. There's also the fact that his head grew several sizes and he turned into a tank.

I'd bet my life savings that Bonds never would've gotten close to the HR record without PEDs.

[THEGREAT30]

too many people in hall doesn't mean so much, Imo, good day

[2daBank]

Terrible argument? Okay, but we only rank on players who woulda been HOFers anyway. It's called jealousy. I could give two shits about what other people do with their lives. It added entertainment value to the game, IMO. MLB surely didn't care, that is, until they got caught. So many people feel betrayed by all this. That's funny to me. I want to see 73 home runs hit by one player. No one really knows for a fact that Bonds could not have hit 50 w/o ..... whatever he took, so we really need to give that up. All these players on the list are inevitably going to be compared with other players on that list. So, let's just make a rule saying no one between 1990 and 2005 get in the HOF. Maybe then, we (or most of us turds) can all be happy.

What do PED's do for the players? I need a somewhat detailed analysis, b/c I haven't a clue. It makes you hit it where they ain't more often? It's give you a great eye/discipline at the plate? If they make you recover from injury faster, then I think that is a good thing, b/c I want to see the stars play, especially when I'm paying so much for the fam to go watch.

^^^^ this

[2daBank]

Actually, no. Your athletic peak is in your mid to late 20s.

If you peak at 36 and start hitting homers like you never did before, clearly you were on something. There's also the fact that his head grew several sizes and he turned into a tank.

I'd bet my life savings that Bonds never would've gotten close to the HR record without PEDs.

Probably not, but he was a great player either way, why not be all you can be? no one cared about the speed freaks in the generations before...

[teecee]

Look, you were apparently against players taking these PED's, which is fine. I could take 'em or leave 'em. I just don't get tearing apart someone's career over this, when a majority (assumption, here) were taking them. So you have batters on PED's facing pitcher on PED's. That seems fair to me.

It just seems like the Tiger Woods deal. Tiger slept with someone other than his wife? OH NO! Rory Sabbatini slept with someone other than his wife? WHO CARES! Wow! Let us just pick and choose who we slay, shall we?

[yisman]

Probably not, but he was a great player either way

I did say that

Look, you were apparently against players taking these PED's, which is fine. I could take 'em or leave 'em. I just don't get tearing apart someone's career over this, when a majority (assumption, here) were taking them. So you have batters on PED's facing pitcher on PED's. That seems fair to me. It just seems like the Tiger Woods deal. Tiger slept with someone other than his wife? OH NO! Rory Sabbatini slept with someone other than his wife? WHO CARES! Wow! Let us just pick and choose who we slay, shall we?

No, you're changing the argument. What you said was PEDs don't make a difference. I was saying they clearly do.

As to how much crap players should take for breaking the law and the rules of the sport they participate in, that's not up to me and I don't care to talk about it.

I also don't care about who golfers sleep with, so I'm not getting into that.

[teecee]

Some PEDs give you increased strength.

Some give you increased stamina.

Some help you avoid injuries or recover faster (muscle recovery in general).

Surely you can see where athletes can benefit from these things.

For example, the blood doping in cycling. EPO gives someone a decided advantage.

I'm not sure if any of these cover the 'Do PED's make you a better hitter' portion of the paragraph I typed. Not only did Bonds (Bonds, b/c he's being hunted like a witch) hit 73 homers, but didn't he also hit about .380 (with the shift on, if I'm not mistaken), and set a record for walks (about 230, and a stat about which I've never heard asterisks mentioned) in a season. I guess maybe the argument is that if it weren't for PED's, he never would've accomplished those feats either. I don't know, and I guess I'll just never get it, which is cool too. Good day, Yisman.

[will2survive]

Ichiro is a guaranteed HOF 1st ballot. Have you checked out his record breaking stats?He's on Tony Gwynn's level and he's a great fielder

[yisman]

I'm not sure if any of these cover the 'Do PED's make you a better hitter' portion of the paragraph I typed. Not only did Bonds (Bonds, b/c he's being hunted like a witch) hit 73 homers, but didn't he also hit about .380 (with the shift on, if I'm not mistaken), and set a record for walks (about 230, and a stat about which I've never heard asterisks mentioned) in a season. I guess maybe the argument is that if it weren't for PED's, he never would've accomplished those feats either. I don't know, and I guess I'll just never get it, which is cool too. Good day, Yisman.

All those things related to PEDs.

Walks of course have an asterisk.

Did he have a great batting eye and great plate discipline? No doubt.

But he never would've drawn close to that many walks were it not for teams pitching around him.

Why were teams pitching around him constantly? Because he was hitting homers at an unheard of rate due to all the 'roids he was taking.

Of course teams would rather walk him in many situations rather than risk giving up a homer.

When Bonds was a singles and doubles hitter, teams didn't pitch around him nearly as much.

So yeah, had Bonds not taken PEDs, he never would have walked even 200 times in a season.

As for whether they make you a better hitter, yes, they make you a better hitter, because power is an integral part of your hitting ability. Same for muscle recovery.

I'm not sure if any of these cover the 'Do PED's make you a better hitter' portion of the paragraph I typed. Not only did Bonds (Bonds, b/c he's being hunted like a witch) hit 73 homers, but didn't he also hit about .380

No, he did not.

His BA did increase significantly during his peak 'roiding years, though.

Basically, he became a completely different player after using PEDs. If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it's normal for someone to become much better at age 35, then who am I to stop you?

[2daBank]

All those things related to PEDs.

Walks of course have an asterisk.

Did he have a great batting eye and great plate discipline? No doubt.

But he never would've drawn close to that many walks were it not for teams pitching around him.

Why were teams pitching around him constantly? Because he was hitting homers at an unheard of rate due to all the 'roids he was taking.

Of course teams would rather walk him in many situations rather than risk giving up a homer.

When Bonds was a singles and doubles hitter, teams didn't pitch around him nearly as much.

So yeah, had Bonds not taken PEDs, he never would have walked even 200 times in a season.

As for whether they make you a better hitter, yes, they make you a better hitter, because power is an integral part of your hitting ability. Same for muscle recovery.




No, he did not.

His BA did increase significantly during his peak 'roiding years, though.

absolutely, juice increased all his stats....arguing that it didnt is ridiculous, i just dont necessarily have a problem with it

[phillybadboy]

no man he stinks

[yisman]

yeah and I'm not going to argue the point of whether or not someone should have a problem with it. I've heard people before say they have no problem with athletes taking illegal substances because they want to see players become even greater or whatever.

It's just that it clearly did improve performance in the cases of Bonds and several other high profile athletes.

[Willie Bee]

too many people in hall doesn't mean so much, Imo, good day

Curious to know who you'd throw out? Everyone has their own criteria, and mine has always been was the player among the top 10% of his contemporaries at his position. I don't think there's any argument that Ichiro has been among the top 20 outfielders, maybe top 10, the last eight years.

It's when you compare Pujols to Ruth, Greg Maddux to Cy Young, etc, that's when any argument becomes totally subjective and useless in my opinion.

Who would you throw out, Great30?

[mlb]

Very true .. Willie .. can't start comparing, no way to just foolish.

I think he should be in, been one of the best for years now and could have been even better if he was here longer.

[Chi_archie]

guy might play till he is 45......

[Muddy]

SUZUKI, like the motorcycle. And, yes.

[encephalization]

Defo..

[trytrytry]

first ballet.

[teecee]

absolutely, juice increased all his stats....arguing that it didnt is ridiculous, i just dont necessarily have a problem with it

This point is one I was definitely trying to get across. Bigger numbers bring me more excitement, and probably for a majority of fans as well.

[Chi_archie]

just passed 1,000 career runs scored...

seems well on his way (barring injury) to his 10th consecutive 200+ hit season

[dynamite140]

Best contact hitter in baseball.

[nbt3428]

I don't really like Ichiro but I have nothing but respect for him on that field, he hits like a machine and has been doing so since he came over from Japan. I'd vote for him.

[TGHMak]

Ichiro is the only reason I worry about going against the Mariners this year.

[Grind House]

Hall of famer. One of the best on base hitters ever, and plays the outfield better than your average.

[Intuitive_Edge]

yup

[Chi_archie]

guy has an arm

[Bigmikesm]

The guy would be a shoe-in if he played here 5 years earlier. Don't think he will make it because of that.

[Donkwin47]

Japan: 1278 Hits
USA: 1805 Hits

Total: 3083 Hits

How I read this:

Japan: 1278 Hits
USA: 1805 Hits

Total: 1805 Hits

[bornselling]

over 200 hits EVERY season
over 100 runs EVERY season

[ttwarrior1]

uh easy, 1st ballot and he's not retiring any time soon