Arizona winning factors

Chi_archie · 01-21-09, 12:38 AM

forgot to mention that the reason I think Zona needs at least a bit of a running game is that Kurt Warner is in the top 2 with play action passes.... (with P. Manning) and alot of his big plays are off play action passes....

I don't think that will work as well with the Steelers... they will shut down the run without breaking a sweat

Chi_archie · 01-21-09, 07:37 AM

Listening to Larry Fitgerald's dad on the radio right now...

He says he is the best WR in the NFL right now..... and don't get me wrong I think he is top 3-5 and he does have the best hands for sure.

He is a good guy and I hope he wins and he's deserved this attention for awhile. I just hope people recognize that it takes more then just him to beat any NFL team

LT Profits · 01-21-09, 08:19 AM

I actually do think that Fitz is already the best receiver in football right now.

That aside, I agree that the Cards recent success has been a direct resulr of re-instating Edgerrin James as the starting RB, and his previous time on the bendh actually benefitted him as he looks three years younger. BUT, nobody runs on the Steelers and I feel that James' probable ineffectiveness this game is another reason to like Pittsburgh big.

Chi_archie · 01-21-09, 09:42 AM

How would the "experts" rate the Cardinals Offensive line? have they jelled lately or has Edge just found a second wind and fresh legs?

bypp · 01-21-09, 10:15 AM

I believe the Cards are planning to release him in the offseason. So I think Edge is playing for a contract somewhere.

LT Profits · 01-21-09, 10:32 AM

There were no changes to the OL between the time that Hightower started and when James was put back in, so I'd say he deserves more of the credit. Not that the Zona line is bad, but again, no one runs on Pittsburgh regardless.

Dark Horse · 01-21-09, 10:59 AM

If anyone figures out a way to run against these Steelers it is the Zona coaching staff, for obvious reasons. And remember the opening drive last Sunday against the number three defense? lol

Arizona has scored pretty much at will during these playoffs. It's a pick your poison attack that's clicking at the right moment and nearly impossible to defend. Aside from his quick release and pinpoint accuracy Warner has worked hard recently on moving inside the pocket and it's paying off. Warner to Fitzgerald is scary good. And Hightower has run in a TD each playoff week.

I'm giving the first 20 minutes of the game to Arizona, and the next 20 minutes to the Steelers. From thereon it's up to the team with the strongest nerves.

Chi_archie · 01-21-09, 11:15 AM

I can see arizona winning at halftime...but that won't be worrisome but they will be lucky to score 6 or 7 in the 2nd half.... they barely had 100 yards in the second half against the Eagles and their Defense gave up almost 300 in the 2nd half... Steelers blow out the Cards in the second half of this game and cover comfortably..

No team is better 2nd half then the steelers

Dark Horse · 01-21-09, 11:24 AM

Don't read too much into that 2H collapse. They were blowing out the Eagles and have been known to let the air out of the balloon. They responded when it was necessary. That is what counts. These are two teams that know how to respond... Nobody is going to blow anybody out.

LT Profits · 01-21-09, 12:11 PM

DH,

I am not as confident as you are that the Cards will be able to move at will vs. the Pittsburgh defense. Sure, Philly was ranked number three statistically, but in reality, I feel the Steelers D is far superior.

And I actually DO see a Pitt blowout here, or at least a safe double-digit win.

We shall see.

Scorpion · 01-21-09, 01:24 PM

Didn't Seattle had the best offense in the league average 28+ points when they played the Steelers in the SB 3 years ago?
What happened??
They had a lot of weapons too
Don't they play in the same division as Arizona?
Their best offensive plays are Warner to Fitz, Steelers have 2 weeks to shut that down

Scorpion · 01-21-09, 01:30 PM

BTW- one reason Pit cornerbacks are playing better this yr is Mike Tomlin
He was the DBs coach I think in Minny

Dark Horse · 01-21-09, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

DH,

I am not as confident as you are that the Cards will be able to move at will vs. the Pittsburgh defense. Sure, Philly was ranked number three statistically, but in reality, I feel the Steelers D is far superior.

And I actually DO see a Pitt blowout here, or at least a safe double-digit win.

We shall see.

Careful not to overrate that defense (just because everybody seems to agree that it's 'the best'). How many good offenses have the Steelers faced? For the Steelers we can use the results from the regular season, because, unlike the Cards, they're pretty much the same team. They haven't taken it to a completely new level.

Pitt versus good offense:
week 1 - Houston? No.
week 2 - Cleveland? No.
week 3 - Eagles? Maybe. Steelers loss.
week 4 - Baltimore? No.
week 5 - Jacksonville? No.
week 6 - bye
week 7 - Cincy? No.
week 8 - Giants? Yes. Steelers loss.
week 9 - Washington? No.
week 10 - Colts? Yes. Steelers loss.
week 11 - San Diego? Maybe. Steelers 11-10 win.
week 12 - Cincy? No.
week 13 - Patriots? No.
week 14 - Dallas? Maybe. Steelers pull out late 20-13 win.
week 15 - Baltimore? No.
week 16 - Tennessee? No.
week 17 - Cleveland? No.

Playoffs:
San Diego and Baltimore again.

You may not agree with how I graded each team, but the overall picture is clear. The two best offenses that they've played were the Giants (with Plaxico) and the Colts. The Steelers lost both games.

So much for the automatic assumption that 'defense wins the game'.

LT Profits · 01-21-09, 01:44 PM

But in both of those losses, the defense played well and the offense gave the game away. The safety changed the whole compexion of the Giamts game, while Ben set up the Colts in good position with two picks.

Scorpion · 01-21-09, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

week 11 - San Diego? Maybe. Steelers 11-10 win.
Playoffs:
San Diego and Baltimore again.

SD scored more points in the reg season than AZ

AZ stats on the road

Page Not Found (404) | USA TODAY

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/cards/road.htm

Doesnt scare me
Actually AZ style of offesne and the fact that Warner is not a mobile QB are good news for Pit D

If Pit can stop the run, and Fitz, and run the ball on AZ this game is over, and they can do all three.

LT Profits · 01-21-09, 01:46 PM

ANd yes, defense DOES win championships, that is not even disputable. An Arizona win with the worst defense ever to make the Super Bowl would fly in the face of that, and is yet another reason why Pitt will not lose SU.

Dark Horse · 01-21-09, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

But in both of those losses, the defense played well and the offense gave the game away. The safety changed the whole compexion of the Giamts game, while Ben set up the Colts in good position with two picks.

You can always point at some reason why the game was lost, but the fact is that it happened against the two best offensive teams they faced.

Scorpion, use the Cards regular season results at your own risk. I would toss them out, except for the games that truly mattered to them. And even then, they're not that team anymore.

Dark Horse · 01-21-09, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

ANd yes, defense DOES win championships, that is not even disputable. An Arizona win with the worst defense ever to make the Super Bowl would fly in the face of that, and is yet another reason why Pitt will not lose SU.

Not too long ago you were talking about an easy DD win.

LT Profits · 01-21-09, 02:07 PM

Yes, I do expect a DD win. The point of my last post was that the chances of Arizona winning SU are miniscule in my opinion. I am not a fan of chalk, but STEELERS ML may actually hold value here. But I am already locked in at -6 -110 small and -6.5 -120 big.

Chi_archie · 01-21-09, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

Careful not to overrate that defense (just because everybody seems to agree that it's 'the best'). How many good offenses have the Steelers faced? For the Steelers we can use the results from the regular season, because, unlike the Cards, they're pretty much the same team. They haven't taken it to a completely new level.

Pitt versus good offense:
week 1 - Houston? No. Actually 3rd ranked in the league
week 2 - Cleveland? No.
week 3 - Eagles? Maybe. Steelers loss.
week 4 - Baltimore? No.
week 5 - Jacksonville? No.
week 6 - bye
week 7 - Cincy? No.
week 8 - Giants? Yes. Steelers loss.
week 9 - Washington? No.
week 10 - Colts? Yes. Steelers loss.
week 11 - San Diego? Maybe. Steelers 11-10 win. # 1 qb in league 105.5 rating to warners's 96.9
week 12 - Cincy? No.
week 13 - Patriots? No. actually 5th ranked team 1 yard and 1 pt less a game then arizona
week 14 - Dallas? Maybe. Steelers pull out late 20-13 win.
week 15 - Baltimore? No.
week 16 - Tennessee? No.
week 17 - Cleveland? No.

Playoffs:
San Diego and Baltimore again.

You may not agree with how I graded each team, but the overall picture is clear. The two best offenses that they've played were the Giants (with Plaxico) and the Colts. The Steelers lost both games.

So much for the automatic assumption that 'defense wins the game'.

Maybe a better idea would be to see how Pittsburgh's D did against the offenses compared to the rest of the league in terms of yards per game avg and points per game avg

then go do the same quasi-study of Arizona vs your rankings of good, maybe and bad defenses and what their results were

Dark Horse · 01-21-09, 02:16 PM

I wouldn't do this for Arizona's regular season, for reasons already mentioned (many times during these playoffs, by the way).

The above was simply to debunk the theory that the Pittsburgh defense is all but impenetrable.

The Steelers are about to face the most streamlined and effective offense they've seen all season. And that will put pressure on the Steelers offense. If Arizona can get a couple of turnovers ...

Scorpion · 01-21-09, 02:18 PM

All this talk and all the highlights of Fitz on ESPN is not good for him

Dark Horse · 01-21-09, 02:25 PM

I've been calling the Arizona games correctly these playoffs, on this forum, and was only surprised by the ease of the win at Carolina. But anyway...

If you don't like the hear the other side, let's just all agree and take the Steelers.

LT Profits · 01-21-09, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

I wouldn't do this for Arizona's regular season, for reasons already mentioned (many times during these playoffs, by the way).

The above was simply to debunk the theory that the Pittsburgh defense is all but impenetrable.

The Steelers are about to face the most streamlined and effective offense they've seen all season. And that will put pressure on the Steelers offense. If Arizona can get a couple of turnovers ...

I look at it the opposite way - The Cardinals are facing the best defense they have seen all year. I always favor defense in these situations.

Chi_archie · 01-21-09, 02:26 PM

I think that thinking is dangerous....

as it is more probable that Arizona returns to their baseline talent-skill level..... then it is for the steelers to suddenly not be a very stout defense that held comparable offenses
Phil, hou, Pats, SD, Nyg to an avg of 14.6 points a game...

why all the sudden will the Steelers give up 31 to an Arizona team that can't run on the steelers when...the Steelers have only give up 31 one other time this year and over 20 point.. 4 times all season?

The burden of proof is on the Cards backers as the Steelers are in no danger of being a fluke or flash in the pan.... Cards backers have yet to come up with an argument that they are 51% chance to stay within 7

LT Profits · 01-21-09, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Chi_archie

I think that thinking is dangerous....

as it is more probable that Arizona returns to their baseline talent-skill level..... then it is for the steelers to suddenly not be a very stout defense that held comparable offenses
Phil, hou, Pats, SD, Nyg to an avg of 14.6 points a game...

why all the sudden will the Steelers give up 31 to an Arizona team that can't run on the steelers when...the Steelers have only give up 31 one other time this year and over 20 point.. 4 times all season?

The burden of proof is on the Cards backers as the Steelers are in no danger of being a fluke or flash in the pan.... Cards backers have yet to come up with an argument that they are 51% chance to stay within 7

This is the best post in this thread.

Dark Horse · 01-21-09, 02:29 PM

Guys, these Cards took Carolina, unbeaten at home, to the cleaners. It would have been 33-6 if they hadn't given away a late TD. If Pittsburgh had done that, you would have made them 14 pt favorites. lol

Chi_archie · 01-21-09, 02:30 PM

and carolina is a below avg defense...we keep going round in circles....

Chi_archie · 01-21-09, 02:34 PM

Steelers D and whole game plan has been winning like this the past 2 years with this roster...and beyond
we know what we are going to get with them...looking historically at what they do...their are not alot of blips on the map..

Arizona barely squeaks in the playoffs, and play 10 outstanding quarters of Football..... and everyone is ready to say the Steelers will deviate from their last 2 years of play...and the zona will continue on their Tear they were on in the first 10 quarters of playoff football....

that's fine...and it might win... by it losses at least 58/100 times

Dark Horse · 01-21-09, 02:39 PM

I'm just trying to help you out man. I live in Arizona and have a pretty good feel for this team. I've seen them grow for years, and I've seen them correct the mistakes they always made.

In both their home games these playoffs, with people first calling them the worst team ever in the playoffs and later discarding their win at Carolina as a fluke, I said here that 'the wrong team was favored'. In those words. That doesn't mean that I'm right about the Super Bowl. It only means that, so far, my view of this team, in all likelihood, has worked better than yours. There is no need for me to adjust that view. This is basically the same story as the Eagles last week. The Eagles defense was going to stop the Cards. They were going to blitz Warner. Blablabla. I know that the Steelers are better than the Eagles. But most of you guys are way off where it comes to understanding the Cardinals.

That is not surprising. You've paid serious attention to this team for three weeks max. You haven't seen the stages in which this team has progressed, nor the steps they have taken to get here. Basically you have no idea what you're betting against, and therefore keep falling back on the regular season, which is the worst thing you could do with these Cards.

If this game was in Arizona (just a year late...), I would say again that the wrong team is favored. But on neutral ground I'm still not certain what the Cardinals are capable of.

Scorpion · 01-21-09, 04:28 PM

Dont forget the HFA in the super bowl, which team has the edge?

Scorpion · 01-21-09, 04:31 PM

Pit scored 30+ on SD
If the rookie WR does not drop that TD pass, how about Holmes catch? how about the end of the half?
add 10+ points to Pitts pts and they scored 30+ on the 2nd best D in the league too

I think Pitt can run the ball on AZ, The Cards cannot run the bal on Pitt

xyzky · 01-21-09, 04:46 PM

The Cards will be able to run the ball if the secondary needs help in protecting three very dangerous receivers...And if they stack to stop the run then they have to deal with giving up chunks of yardage.

Deceptive · 01-26-09, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by LT Profits

ANd yes, defense DOES win championships, that is not even disputable. An Arizona win with the worst defense ever to make the Super Bowl would fly in the face of that, and is yet another reason why Pitt will not lose SU.

u have your facts wrong just another made up stat like its hard to beat the same team three times case in point, S.F. with montana and young, 90's cowboy teams, back to back denver victories, rams victory all these teams won because of offense not defense, look it up rice irvin rod smith tory holt and more defense wins championships against average offenses but not great ones unless you play buffalo