hey, liberals, you like how the things are going in Denmark, don't you?

[losturmarbles]

If you are not a US citizen and you vote you will be deported. Illegals don't vote because of that.

bull

[losturmarbles]

The numbers/data would be impossible to establish, but do you really think Illegals give a fvck about our political system?

does 90% of the people that vote care about our politcal system?

faulty logic

[curious]

legal mexican can vote, dont think so. all you need is a drivers license, and you can vote.

anyone can get drivers license.

The DemoCong have made it possible for anyone they want to vote: illegals, dead people, cartoon characters.

Land of the free and home of the brave.

[Sinister Cat]

so why not just deport them once convicted of a crime?

These days (last 2 yrs or so) illegals are usually transferred immediately to the feds upon any conviction, and deported very soon thereafter, unless they make bail on their immigration charges. Generally, those who've been convicted of an aggravated felony won't be eligible for relief and thus would be held without bail (and so are always deported very quickly).

[wtf]

These days (last 2 yrs or so) illegals are usually transferred immediately to the feds upon any conviction, and deported very soon thereafter, unless they make bail on their immigration charges. Generally, those who've been convicted of an aggravated felony won't be eligible for relief and thus would be held without bail (and so are always deported very quickly).

did not know that

but if convicted they have to serve their full sentence in america?

so then there should be a shift soon in the demographics of prison popluation in the near future

[Sinister Cat]

did not know that

but if convicted they have to serve their full sentence in america?

so then there should be a shift soon in the demographics of prison popluation in the near future

The idea, currently, is that illegals shouldn't be in US prisons. So they will be deported before they serve much of their crimes.

This is not to say there aren't currently a lot of illegals in US prisons.. but they are trying to deport them before they spend too much time in state prison these days..

[wtf]

^ common sense does occasionally prevail! that is good news.

[Chi_archie]

United States is facing a bleak near future 10 years,... and possibly bleaker next 100 years... all great civilizations/empires come to an end or drastically change from their most prosperous days.. USA is a baby....


but i'm sure the above has been said about the US a handful of times before....

[wtf]

as long as all those T bills are in every governments vaults i dont think u will see things change too much

but if they start dumping them, then then then then you will see some fuked up shit

[Sinister Cat]

well the current crackdown is definitely getting illegals out of the U.S., particularly prisons.. and a lot less Mexicans are coming across the border, which has been attributed to the crackdown and construction business slowdown. However, a lot of people are being treated really harshly in the crackdown. (example: Imagine, you are a 20-yr-old, born in another country, grew up in the U.S., one of your parents is here legally but never filed papers for you when you were <=18. Then you do some stupid crime, and get deported to some country where you don't know anyone.) Also, I don't know what the current state of border security is, presumably a lot of people are just coming back after being deported...

[curious]

These days (last 2 yrs or so) illegals are usually transferred immediately to the feds upon any conviction, and deported very soon thereafter, unless they make bail on their immigration charges. Generally, those who've been convicted of an aggravated felony won't be eligible for relief and thus would be held without bail (and so are always deported very quickly).

Not in any city where the Liberals are in charge of the city government and have joined the asylum cities movement, places like San Fransisco, etc. Of course, sheltering illegals and not reporting them is illegal but what do the liberals care about legality?

[tacomax]

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors...gal-aliens.htm

Supplying facts and accurate information to the resident racists and bigots has no place in a thread like this.

[reno cool]

still 30%!! you dont find that shocking!

what country on earth would tolerate that? costs like 50k a year to keep some fuker locked up.

USA loves it. Prisons get built, business created, jobs created. It's the American way. But I'm sure you'll find a way to blame the evil "socialists".

[Data]

I am trying to show the younger liberals where their naive beliefs lead to. I cannot change the views of majority of people here but if I can make at least a few people thinking then my effort is not wasted.

First, think about Laissez-faire approaches which promote personal and economic freedom. These are the foundation of the New (Western) World as we know it and that is what made the US the great country. Now, think about who are the groups of people whose political views are opposite to the above and who would agree with each other on many issues while being in the opposition to the above? In historical order, those groups are:
Arabs
Catholics
Muslims
Communists
Fascists
Socialists
present day Liberals

So, these, my friend, are you political brothers. There is a war going on. The war on terror is just one side of it. The war in the Middle East is another side. But, actually, it is much older war. It is a war between the old and the new, between freedom and oppression, between free men and religious fanatics. The Catholics and the Nazi's are no longer fighting because they have no resources left but they are cheering for the other groups that got lucky with their oil resources and can still put up a good fight. Those folks hate us not due to our support of Israel but because we leave differently and they feel they would lose their youth to our ideals and way of living. So, they fight and we, in turn, support Israel because Israel is in the trenches fighting that old war we all are part of. Israel is not the reason of the war it is just one of the places that war is going on nowadays.

If there was no Israel they would find other targets. Russia does not give a damn about Israel, aside from deep historical Anti-Semitism. But they are another bunch of religious (be they Orthodox Christians or Communists) lunatics who are obsessed with their self-promoted greatness. Why do you think they are on the other side and support our enemies?

So, how long will this war last? I think until there is no more oil left. Read, learn, pick the side you are on. You are free to choose.

[Panic]

.

[MilfDriller]

Mexico will destroy California and Arizona ...

Just like the Spaniards destroyed pretty much everything they touched in the New World.

[pico]

i heard canada love immigrants. maybe we should just send them up north.

[EBSB52]

bull

Thar's all just too comprehensive for me. Of course more brilliant than most neo-con rhetoric.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/402/

A fifth of Florida's residents are Hispanic, and Republicans are scoring points on traditional issues of faith and national security. But at the same time, they're frustrating Latinos with what many of them see as harsh anti-immigrant rhetoric.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/28/hispanic.vote/index.html

The Hispanic vote is neither homogenous nor loyal to one party. Though the current political moment seems to favor the Democratic Party, experts say that affinity should not be taken for granted.

This establishes their partisan diversity:

But the Republican Party, intent on gaining more Hispanic voters, made inroads during the early parts of this decade, culminating in the 2004 presidential campaign by President Bush. Exit polls showed he carried 40 to 44 percent of the Hispanic vote, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.

Hispanic Americasn are traditionalists many times and get sucked in to the Republican Party by way of moral issues, even tho the right has few to none of their fiscal concerns at heart. See, at ASU we went over this, I guess you got your education at the bar, grocery store, Klan meeting, etc.

[EBSB52]

does 90% of the people that vote care about our politcal system?

faulty logic

My point:

Illegals don't care about our political system due to them being concened with survival and sending money home, not being arrested - staying out of the limelight.


Your point:

Most Americans don't care about the political system.



Not on the same line, my point establishes priority and avoidance of being detected, yours refers to American apathy. Furthermore, if they understaood American politics they would vote Republican since the 1986 Amnesty LAw signed by Reagan, they would be under the position that Republicans are for illegal immigrants, which in many respects they are.

[EBSB52]

United States is facing a bleak near future 10 years,... and possibly bleaker next 100 years... all great civilizations/empires come to an end or drastically change from their most prosperous days.. USA is a baby....


but i'm sure the above has been said about the US a handful of times before....

You're seeing the end of American Capitalism, just as the end of the USSR and their version of communism came 20 years ago. The USSR morphed into a quasi-soc/capitalist system as they broke up, the US will move toward quasi-socialism; the longer we resist, the harder and more extreme the shift.

[EBSB52]

Supplying facts and accurate information to the resident racists and bigots has no place in a thread like this.

LOL I got a bullsh!t out of one of them, that's a start from drooling on their bibs, mumbling about Bush being a great president thru inference.

[EBSB52]

I am trying to show the younger liberals where their naive beliefs lead to. I cannot change the views of majority of people here but if I can make at least a few people thinking then my effort is not wasted.

First, think about Laissez-faire approaches which promote personal and economic freedom. These are the foundation of the New (Western) World as we know it and that is what made the US the great country. Now, think about who are the groups of people whose political views are opposite to the above and who would agree with each other on many issues while being in the opposition to the above? In historical order, those groups are:
Arabs
Catholics
Muslims
Communists
Fascists
Socialists
present day Liberals

So, these, my friend, are you political brothers. There is a war going on. The war on terror is just one side of it. The war in the Middle East is another side. But, actually, it is much older war. It is a war between the old and the new, between freedom and oppression, between free men and religious fanatics. The Catholics and the Nazi's are no longer fighting because they have no resources left but they are cheering for the other groups that got lucky with their oil resources and can still put up a good fight. Those folks hate us not due to our support of Israel but because we leave differently and they feel they would lose their youth to our ideals and way of leaving. So, they fight and we, in turn, support Israel because Israel is in the trenches fighting that old war we all are part of. Israel is not the reason of the war it is just one of the places that war is going on nowadays.

If there was no Israel they would find other targets. Russia does not give a damn about Israel, aside from deep historical Anti-Semitism. But they are another bunch of religious (be they Orthodox Christians or Communists) lunatics who are obsessed with their self-promoted greatness. Why do you think they are on the other side and support our enemies?

So, how long will this war last? I think until there is no more oil left. Read, learn, pick the side you are on. You are free to choose.

I am trying to show the younger liberals where their naive beliefs lead to.

Just think if someone said that in the early Reagan years. Here's the result: http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

I cannot change the views of majority of people here but if I can make at least a few people thinking then my effort is not wasted.

I respect your opinion, but how about some supporting evidence thru historical data? Let's hear what's been tried and how it worked out.

First, think about Laissez-faire approaches which promote personal and economic freedom.

OK, let's see what they've done for us. Basically you're talking deregulation.

Airlines - in the dumper

Banks - in the dumper

Employment, unions and wages - dumper


Regulation is neccessary since American corporations have shown they can't be responsible w/o it.

These are the foundation of the New (Western) World as we know it and that is what made the US the great country.

Great? From a fiscal standpoint we are a trainwreck. Tawain, China an oother countries are fiscally great. As for the foundation of the US, we were founded on slavery, rape, oppression and exclusivity, not a great argument.

Now, think about who are the groups of people whose political views are opposite to the above and who would agree with each other on many issues while being in the opposition to the above? In historical order, those groups are:
Arabs
Catholics
Muslims
Communists
Fascists
Socialists
present day Liberals

This is where your argument loses all respect. Not to mention, historically/chronologically incorrect, socilaism originated around the 1830's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Fascism originated in the early 1900's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism


I'd love to hear the explanation as to why you feel this, please be specific and make a point - I mean that constructively.

But, actually, it is much older war. It is a war between the old and the new, between freedom and oppression, between free men and religious fanatics.

Oppression? As in class disparity? In the US that is the war and the Republicans have ensured that poor people have stayed that way and even w/o healthcare, something elitist fascists in othr countries have not been able to do.

The Catholics and the Nazi's are no longer fighting because they have no resources left but they are cheering for the other groups that got lucky with their oil resources and can still put up a good fight.

And here I thought the Nazi Party was extinguished by force, you say they just went bankrupt. How are teh Catholics a fighting machine? So this allegiance between the Nazis, Catholics and Arabs is consumated and formed how?

Those folks hate us not due to our support of Israel but because we leave differently and they feel they would lose their youth to our ideals and way of leaving.

Leave differently? What does that mean? Define, "us." Lose their youth? This entire assertion is bizzare on a few levels.

So, they fight and we, in turn, support Israel because Israel is in the trenches fighting that old war we all are part of. Israel is not the reason of the war it is just one of the places that war is going on nowadays.

I'm not sure how Israel comes into this thread, but you seem to disavow religion and then embrase Israel; how is Israel teid to US success?

If there was no Israel they would find other targets.

Who would find otehr targets? And for what?

Russia does not give a damn about Israel, aside from deep historical Anti-Semitism. But they are another bunch of religious (be they Orthodox Christians or Communists) lunatics who are obsessed with their self-promoted greatness.

No one has more self-promoted greatness than the US. This is goinf all over the place, Israel, wars, etc. This is like a conversation with Sarah Palin and I don't mean that in dispariging way, just that it jumps all over w/o any supporting evidence.

Why do you think they are on the other side and support our enemies?

As in Russia, they support China, are tey our enemy? I hope not, I think they hold 1 trillion + of our debt. Who's our enemy, the Middle East? That's funny, it seems as tho they love us, other than a few radical groups. In the Gulf War, Saudi rejected OBL's demand to leave the US out, as well other countries trade with us in large form. You're letting a few radical groups represent the masses.

So, how long will this war last? I think until there is no more oil left. Read, learn, pick the side you are on. You are free to choose.

The series of wars in the ME are not all about oil, they are about Imperialism, religion, general ideology and probably a lot of other issues.

[juuso]

Scandinavian countries have extensive social security benefits and pretty liberal immigration policies. Humanitarian refugees from mostly muslim countries have been flowing in for years and some problems can be seen already. Denmark, Sweden and Norway all have pretty sizable muslim population and large percentage of these people keep practicing islam (some of them are extremists), don't integrate well into nordic secular society and live off of government given social security benefits. They also breed faster than natives. In many areas schools already have majority of muslim students.

It's still happening in smaller scale here in Finland, but radical Islam isn't something I wan't to see around. We've pretty much gotten rid of christian church's influence in our lives and now we should just embrace and respect much more problematic and backward religion amidst our society. I have nothing against arabs and work based immigration would be a very good thing, but humanitarian refugees and multiculturalism with sizable muslim population isn't the greatest idea in Scandinavian societies, that have free healthcare and social security benefits build in for unemployed people. Something has to give sooner or later.

[IvanC]

A bit late but here's some rape statistics by the way:

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders

You can also find this in the department of justice.

[EBSB52]

A bit late but here's some rape statistics by the way:

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders

You can also find this in the department of justice.

Don't go confusing the neo-cons with facts.

[rookie]

Scandinavian countries have extensive social security benefits and pretty liberal immigration policies. Humanitarian refugees from mostly muslim countries have been flowing in for years and some problems can be seen already. Denmark, Sweden and Norway all have pretty sizable muslim population and large percentage of these people keep practicing islam (some of them are extremists), don't integrate well into nordic secular society and live off of government given social security benefits. They also breed faster than natives. In many areas schools already have majority of muslim students.

It's still happening in smaller scale here in Finland, but radical Islam isn't something I wan't to see around. We've pretty much gotten rid of christian church's influence in our lives and now we should just embrace and respect much more problematic and backward religion amidst our society. I have nothing against arabs and work based immigration would be a very good thing, but humanitarian refugees and multiculturalism with sizable muslim population isn't the greatest idea in Scandinavian societies, that have free healthcare and social security benefits build in for unemployed people. Something has to give sooner or later.

Is 2% sizable ?

Stats from CIA's website:

Denmark: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/da.html

Norway: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/no.html

Sweden: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/sw.html

Finland: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/fi.html

[MilfDriller]

juuso.... right on the money

don't worry about ESBS2 ... some one can get their whole family killed be a team of gang bangers... and they'll still would love and support gang bangers.... just b/c they're so twisted in the mind

smells like an academic moron who has never had a job before... kind of like these crazy Chicano professors with their love for Atzlan

[Data]

I respect your opinion, but how about some supporting evidence thru historical data? Let's hear what's been tried and how it worked out.

Sure, here we go:
Catholics - Inquisition
Muslims - poverty, oppression, terrorism
Communists - GULAG
Fascists - concentration camps

OK, let's see what they've done for us. Basically you're talking deregulation.

Airlines - in the dumper

Banks - in the dumper

Employment, unions and wages - dumper

Our current crisis is not an evidence of the failure of capitalism. We have no capitalism since Progressivists took over and infected the country with fascists/socialists plague which this thread is devoted to.

Regulation is neccessary since American corporations have shown they can't be responsible w/o it.

How ironic. The corporations would not exist in the free market environment, they are the product of government policies. This is a fine example of why regulation (government) is bad and must be contained, it tend to do things wrong and then it needs to grow to fix its own faults.

we were founded on slavery, rape, oppression and exclusivity, not a great argument.

This is rather emotional argument. I do not think you are being serious here.

historically/chronologically incorrect, socilaism originated around the 1830's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Fascism originated in the early 1900's. http://en.wikipedia

To avoid confusion, I should have said modern day socialists, instead of socialists. I was talking about groups of people, not the ideas. There were many fascists in the 30s-40s, while socialism has widely spread after WWII.

I'd love to hear the explanation as to why you feel this, please be specific and make a point - I mean that constructively.

Because they have too many in common, all of which oppose capitalism.

Oppression? As in class disparity?

They all oppose individual and economical freedom and because of that must lead to oppression which is proven historically.

And here I thought the Nazi Party was extinguished by force, you say they just went bankrupt.

They are not extinguished, the ideas live. Their leadership is no longer in power and therefore they are unable to wage a war due to the lack of resources.

How are teh Catholics a fighting machine?

For centuries, they have been a fine oppressing machine, asks the Protestants or Sephardic Jews.

So this allegiance between the Nazis, Catholics and Arabs is consumated and formed how?

Since they have so much in common it is no surprise what side of the war they are on. So, here we have Vatican condemning Israel and Russia helping out Iran.

Leave differently? What does that mean?

A typo, please read "live differently".

Define, "us.".

Western World

Lose their youth? This entire assertion is bizzare on a few levels.

As the world progresses, it becomes much harder to pass retarded backwards ideology to the offspring if the youth can see that there are other, better ways of living.

I'm not sure how Israel comes into this thread, but you seem to disavow religion and then embrase Israel; how is Israel teid to US success?

Israel is a part of Western World, it is a secular state. I do not sympathize with the religious part of it. However, what makes their religion compatible with Western World, unlike Catholicism and Islam, is that they have no goal of spreading their religion world-wide. I find this "I don't tell you how to live your life and you don't tell me how to live me life" attitude as very much American.

Who's our enemy

The groups of people whose religious and political views oppose freedom, they usually substitute it with a greater good. That "greater good" may vary but the other views are very much alike.

[juuso]

Is 2% sizable ?

Stats from CIA's website:

Denmark: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/da.html

Norway: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/no.html

Sweden: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/sw.html

Finland: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/fi.html

Maybe sizable was an overstatement when looking at the whole country, but the immigration is accelerating and it's mostly concentrated on capital cities and few of the bigger cities. It starting to show in cities like Oslo, Stockholm and Malmö. Overall population isn't that high yet, but it's estimated to keep growing steadily. by 2020-2030 it will be more than 10% of the population.

Malmö has the largest % of muslim immigrants in scandinavia. Riots are quite common there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzLECtFT4aU

[MilfDriller]

juuso

Scandinavians are some of the most civilized people on the planet. Soon their societies will destroyed by American unity principles that will tear America apart.

[curious]

The socialists are sowing the seeds of their own destruction by allowing the militants to take root and grow in their countries in the name of "compassion".

I have been trying to find a case where a western society - faced with ever increasing numbers of "strange swarthy types" who did not integrate with the rest of society - did not at some point elect a radical rightwing government that turned on the "strange swarthy types" (and the socialists that permitted their growth in isolation) and either exterminated them, threw them out, or forced them to integrate at bayonet point. So, far I have not been able to find a case where this did not happen.

When the "average" Nordic folks get scared enough or angry enough at the "strange swarthy types" in their midst their anger is going to turn on the socialists that made it possible. When this happens, usually right wing wacko "strong men" get elected or just take power.

Good riddance it will be too.

[curious]

Maybe sizable was an overstatement when looking at the whole country, but the immigration is accelerating and it's mostly concentrated on capital cities and few of the bigger cities. It starting to show in cities like Oslo, Stockholm and Malmö. Overall population isn't that high yet, but it's estimated to keep growing steadily. by 2020-2030 it will be more than 10% of the population.

Malmö has the largest % of muslim immigrants in scandinavia. Riots are quite common there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzLECtFT4aU

Why would the only country to beat Russia in a war since the Mongols put up with such nonsense? Why don't they make the consequences of rioting so horrific that the Islamofascists would not dream of rioting.

[MilfDriller]

what if the United States were 80% black or 80% Mexican?

just a question. what would happen? how would the country function? what would eventually happen?

I am just asking questions.... I think it would go well. what do you guys think?

[Data]

Thank you, juuso. Here is another video from Sweden:

[reno cool]

Have to agree with ESBS here.

Although Data's paradigm is fun to consider it just doesn't sit well with reality.

1. the groupings are artificial. They're just a bunch of possibly brutal characters, and American policy going all the way back to the days of Columbus could easily fit in that group. Respect for individual freedom plays no role on either side.

2. Alot of what made USA uniquely prosperous is it's geographical location and lack of foreign invasion for that reason. A favor that the US does not extend to others. Blood thirst, ignorance, bigotry also help when you cruise the world to exploit and establish markets.

3. If free willing capitalism didn't lead to current financial situation, it did lead to the Great Depression, and at that time the elites realized, they had to change some things.