Why do many europeans questioning SBRs reputation?

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  • diamond
    SBR MVP
    • 02-09-06
    • 3636

    #1
    Why do many europeans questioning SBRs reputation?
    Hi,

    When I read European forums, especially German and Scandinavian forums, I often read that SBR is considered very unprofessional. Many feel that the books that made it to the recommended list, has basically paid themselves into it. Personally, I have only great experiences with those on the list, so the list seems fair enough.

    What I do react on is that a big Scandinavian sportsbook only get a C like Nordicbet. Even some questioning Expekts low rating. Nordicbet, according to themselves, is the only bookie that has proven they keep all player funds in a closed account together with a public department. Like that, no funds that belong to the players, will ever be used to the daily expenses of the company. So it feels very unfair to say "there is some risk to players funds"..Regarding Expekt, I dont know, but they struggled heavily in the past with their website and their customer support has too often been below expekted. And they are very slow with crediting bank deposits, so I feel the rating is ok there.

    What is even more surprising is that it does not excist any rating for UNIBET, a giant in the European sportsbook market and listed on the stock exchange. Why is this book not rated? Other Scandinavian books left out is Betonbet (exchange though) and Betsafe.

    So is it strange that there is a feeling this rating focuses more on the US market, than the European market? I do appreciate the ratings, but I feel based on what Nordicbet has proven, there is no risk to players funds. Also I would love to see Unibet on the list as well.
  • Willie Bee
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 02-14-06
    • 15726

    #2
    Originally posted by diamond
    What is even more surprising is that it does not excist any rating for UNIBET, a giant in the European sportsbook market and listed on the stock exchange.
    Diamond, BOS and Enron, just to name a couple of corporations, were also both listed on stock exchanges, and look where that got them. That isn't to say that UNIBET is not a fair company or that it engages in shady practices. But being publicly traded is not always a sign that all is well.

    One reason we don't have comprehensive ratings for European operations is we can't always get the information we need from them. My attempts to get info from Stan James, for example, has been exasperating and frustrating to say the least.

    Your note that SBR caters primarily to US players is valid. Some of the European books also do not provide the best lines or opportunities for wagers on US sports. And since some of the European books do not service US players at all, it makes it more difficult to get feedback from real players about specific books such as you're offering regarding UNIBET. Hopefully we can eventually provide more information and ratings for some of these sportsbooks in the future. But for now, our concentration and focus is on the books where the majority of our audience plays.
    Comment
    • diamond
      SBR MVP
      • 02-09-06
      • 3636

      #3
      Thanks Willie for clarifying the "focus part" of the US vs Europe

      Just to underline, that I did not mean being on the stock exchange was a good sign, but I do think that Unibet is a better sportsbook than for example Expekt and deserves to be rated.

      I can imagine it can be difficult to gain information, but according to for example Nordicbet, they have tried to contact SBR and never got a reply.
      Comment
      • Bill Dozer
        www.twitter.com/BillDozer
        • 07-12-05
        • 10894

        #4
        Actually, the response "we are rated low because we don't pay SBR" doesn't only come from books in Europe. Sales clerks of low-rated shops in CR are told to say that when they go through training. The books are aware that questions about SBR's ratings come up after the sales pitch and that their clerks need to answer with something.

        Euro books and Caribbean books are very different and we could have pages for different sets of criteria. There are books like BAW that are financially better off than most but are a top 5 for complaints. That's pretty bad considering most of our audience is not in Europe. We will avoid rating books we do not have enough information for.

        Regarding BetSafe...
        This book is in Riga Latvia but its servers are in Costa Rica. It appears they use SEB Unibanka for gaming transactions. I hope to verify this is not true as this would mean they are operating illegally. It looks like they are trying to follow the path of PointBet and get to the UK but right now...BetSafe may not be that safe.
        Comment
        • diamond
          SBR MVP
          • 02-09-06
          • 3636

          #5
          Yes, Betandwin really has a history of their own, very fast closing accounts, slow payouts etc..I feel they should not be around C, despite their financial position. They use their position in a negative way I reckon.

          Regarding Betsafe, its a small group of people that left Nordicbet and started their own sportsbook together with some financial investors.
          Comment
          • jjgold
            SBR Aristocracy
            • 07-20-05
            • 388179

            #6
            SBR is not experienced enough with Euro books and the ratings I would say are not the most accruate.
            Comment
            • kiwi
              SBR Wise Guy
              • 08-11-05
              • 674

              #7
              Betsafe and Nordicbet both limit ridiculously after only a few successful bets - they are not useful on the long run for a serious player. Unibet is somewhat better but also limits after a while. Expekt is a book I use since a long time without any problems (only some limits in US sport but not in tennis and soccer) and furthermore they offer good odds.
              Comment
              • diamond
                SBR MVP
                • 02-09-06
                • 3636

                #8
                Originally posted by kiwi
                Betsafe and Nordicbet both limit ridiculously after only a few successful bets - they are not useful on the long run for a serious player. Unibet is somewhat better but also limits after a while. Expekt is a book I use since a long time without any problems (only some limits in US sport but not in tennis and soccer) and furthermore they offer good odds.
                True that they limit players, but to say there is risk of players funds for Nordicbet, is absolutely not true. Regarding Expekt I am not their biggest fan, dont think they offer any tempting odds.
                Comment
                • SBR_John
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 07-12-05
                  • 16471

                  #9
                  JJ is right.

                  We get a very high number of visitors from Europe but they are mainly looking for info on Pinnacle and CRIS, ect. We will get to Euro and Asia in due course.
                  Comment
                  • jjgold
                    SBR Aristocracy
                    • 07-20-05
                    • 388179

                    #10
                    The top 25 Euro Books vs top 25 USA type books

                    1. Euro does 100x the action
                    2. Euro has tons more bet offers
                    3. Euro blows away usa software
                    4. Euro way more safer
                    5. Euro way higher juice
                    6. Euro more safety measures in place
                    7. Euro way better customer service
                    8. Euro way sharper linesmakers

                    Pretty much sums it up
                    Comment
                    • ourbet
                      SBR Sharp
                      • 12-23-05
                      • 464

                      #11
                      Originally posted by kiwi
                      Betsafe and Nordicbet both limit ridiculously after only a few successful bets - they are not useful on the long run for a serious player. Unibet is somewhat better but also limits after a while. Expekt is a book I use since a long time without any problems (only some limits in US sport but not in tennis and soccer) and furthermore they offer good odds.
                      FWIW I've had exactly the same experience kiwi with all the books you mention. This is a good, honest assessment IMHO.
                      Comment
                      • kiwi
                        SBR Wise Guy
                        • 08-11-05
                        • 674

                        #12
                        Originally posted by diamond
                        True that they limit players, but to say there is risk of players funds for Nordicbet, is absolutely not true. Regarding Expekt I am not their biggest fan, dont think they offer any tempting odds.
                        I didn't say there would be a risk for players funds in Nordicbet.

                        Expekt _has_ interesting odds. It depends on if you find them. :-)
                        Comment
                        • acw
                          SBR Wise Guy
                          • 08-29-05
                          • 576

                          #13
                          At least SBR has some European readers. Something the family of other American forums can only dream of.

                          Am I the only one that is seriously enjoying all these BOS dramas?
                          Lets face the reality SBR came long time ago already with its doubts about this outfit, all other forums even take them as an advertiser and now they are all f.cked!
                          Comment
                          • ourbet
                            SBR Sharp
                            • 12-23-05
                            • 464

                            #14
                            Originally posted by acw
                            Am I the only one that is seriously enjoying all these BOS dramas?
                            I couldn't say that I was "enjoying" reading all those stories about people who appear to have been stiffed acw, no; but I do have an interest seeing as BOS closed all my BOS related accounts and returned my money (about $2,500 in all) only days before they ceased trading.

                            At the time I thought "WTF?" but now I feel that I was incredibly lucky.
                            Comment
                            • SBR_John
                              SBR Posting Legend
                              • 07-12-05
                              • 16471

                              #15
                              Originally posted by acw
                              At least SBR has some European readers. Something the family of other American forums can only dream of.

                              Am I the only one that is seriously enjoying all these BOS dramas?
                              Lets face the reality SBR came long time ago already with its doubts about this outfit, all other forums even take them as an advertiser and now they are all f.cked!
                              Thanks acw.

                              ACW is one of those guys that somehow knows about everything so you won't sneak anything by him and the other forums haven't.

                              I find it amusing that the other sites claim they "have" to take ad money to stay alive form crooks and downright scammers. I know the SBR staff is proud and the best in the industry. If we took on an SBG or BOS I'm sure most the staff would quit... I hope they would.
                              Comment
                              • tribet
                                SBR High Roller
                                • 08-12-06
                                • 171

                                #16
                                I think us europeans are more risk averse than you guys and don't feel comfortable betting with some US owned books as it feels too distant to sort out any issues that arise so we only use very solid books.
                                There are 2 books on the A+ list wish are a bit of a joke over here,
                                Bet£3.65 for obvious reasons and Bowmans who don't seem to like people withdrawing and feed you crap lines after a couple of bets.
                                Comment
                                • JoshW
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 08-10-05
                                  • 3431

                                  #17
                                  The European books as a rule have a different definition of fairness to the players. Whether it is because SBR has greater influence with US focused books, or European books feel they are above any outside help, Euro books generally aren't as responsive when a player has an issue we bring to them. But as others have said, on the financial safety side of things, tough to go wrong with these books.
                                  Comment
                                  • tacomax
                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                    • 08-10-05
                                    • 9619

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by lakerfan
                                    Euro books generally aren't as responsive when a player has an issue we bring to them.
                                    Like you said, it's all about influence.

                                    If a Costa Rician book wouldn't play ball with a player issue, you'd downgrade them. So they have to really play ball with you, treat their players well or at least give the impression that they treat the players well who approach SBR with problems.

                                    Euro books couldn't really give a crap about SBR. They don't have the US-traffic that the CR books have and due to the juice, then they're not going to have a lot of SBR readers betting on US sports. If you've not got the same influence over the Euro books as the CR books, they're just not going to listen to you over there.
                                    Originally posted by pags11
                                    SBR would never get rid of me...ever...
                                    Originally posted by BuddyBear
                                    I'd probably most likely chose Pags to jack off too.
                                    Originally posted by curious
                                    taco is not a troll, he is a bubonic plague bacteria.
                                    Comment
                                    • Teddy_KGB
                                      SBR Sharp
                                      • 04-07-06
                                      • 270

                                      #19
                                      bet Ł3.65 is paying to SBR to their A+ rate, it is obviously.
                                      Comment
                                      • Teddy_KGB
                                        SBR Sharp
                                        • 04-07-06
                                        • 270

                                        #20
                                        Sportingbet.com has D+ It's very interesting, because I think they are not worse than bet $3.65 . And BWIN has C rate (the last downgrade was more than 1 years ago), if somebody used (ever) the two bookies, please comment it, which is the better.
                                        Comment
                                        • Santo
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 09-08-05
                                          • 2957

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by tacomax
                                          Like you said, it's all about influence.
                                          And a small thing called the Data protection act
                                          Comment
                                          • althelegend
                                            SBR Wise Guy
                                            • 07-28-06
                                            • 596

                                            #22
                                            I use bwin (as it is now called) and sportingbet. I find that they are both quick to limit winners but find that bwin generally has larger limits than sportingbet.

                                            I would rate bwin C+ and sportingbet C-

                                            Bet365's A rating is something of a joke in the UK, along with Bowmans due to limits being quickly imposed and inferior lines offered to successful gamblers.

                                            However in none of the above books is there much risk to players funds.
                                            Comment
                                            • acw
                                              SBR Wise Guy
                                              • 08-29-05
                                              • 576

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by SBR_John
                                              ACW is one of those guys that somehow knows about everything so you won't sneak anything by him and the other forums haven't.
                                              I knew from an insider that they were on shaky grounds, but that info was not needed to figure out that one should not have had an account with these guys! Just the typical confiscations said it all already.

                                              John,
                                              How about this latest Tradesports issue?!
                                              Good to see that you downgraded them.

                                              But how could you possibly ever upgrade a book like SIA?
                                              Originally posted by jojonippyj
                                              I have hated them ever since- Anyone remember a boxing match a couple of months ago that was mistakenly declared a draw? HBO announced 5 minutes after the fight that the scorecard was misinterpreted. Great SB`s like Pinnacle and six others I bet the fight on that nite properly reversed the grade, even Gibralter did me right. The only ones who screwed me was SI. I think those MF`s are in Canada? Funny thing is, FOR THE FIRST AND ONLY TIME EVR, they graded the fight 2 minutes after the decision when it ALWAYS takes SI hours to grade boxing. They did this because a draw was in their favor and they robbed me off 800 bucks. tTheir good side is you can tie all sorts of parlays fron different sports together and they e-mail you all bet tickets and winning tickets, plus if ya bet low, U can even bet a dollar. I will NEVER forget how they robbed me though and hope someone hits them big. As for your case got no clue, good luck and hope ya get your cash. Nippyj
                                              Comment
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