What does a professional gambler contribute to society?

[fearless]

What do you think?

My father's been a professional poker player for over 20 years. He says he's providing entertainment for rich poker players who want a challenge and don't mind losing $10-$20k a night. I guess that's kind of a service. I've always thought he was kind of rationalizing what he's doing, calling himself an "entertainer."

What about sports bettors who stay on their computer all day? What do they contribute to society?

Does it matter?

[reno cool]

a friend of mine who used to mostly play professional poker, before we started gambling on other things used to say the same thing. I think gambling is a trivial pursuit. Personally I got involved in it to avoid being exploited through work or exploiting others. The vast majority of professions in our society I believe are trivial, and many do outright harm. If you just avoid doing bad you're already ahead of the curve. Thats my thinking.

[l7ustin]

how do rich people paying people to wipe their asses contribute to society? why is that a requirement for a profession?

[durito]

Drive prices down to create less losses for squares.

[fathead]

Pro Gamblers are consumers who contribute to the economy by spending their winnings/earnings on essential and non-essential items at the retail level.

[Mudcat]

What does a professional gambler contribute to society?


It's entirely up to each individual.

Apart from supporting an industry and being a consumer/taxpayer and all the obvious stuff, a professional gambler can do any number of discretionary things.

Speaking for myself, I use the flexibility with my time to do community service work in the area of providing training to front-line addictions workers. I participate as a volunteer in workshops and sit on panels etc.

If I was working a conventional job I wouldn't be able to do some of the stuff I do since it usually involves taking days off mid-week and scooting all around Southern Ontario. And I wouldn't be home so much to take phone calls from people looking for help or related information.

My contribution to tomcast's organization is made possible to a huge extent to my being a professional gambler. The interesting angle is his org does so much for people with all addictions - including gambling. So, even if only by accident, the gambling industry is actually contributing to helping problem gamblers rather than just creating and milking them.


But, as with any other profession, it depends on the individual how much they want to contribute to society.

[Justin7]

Many major innovations in math have been developed by gamblers. This in turn helps the market and other risk-based operations price things more efficiently.

Back in the 1600s, annuities "for the life of the purchaser" in England used to be priced independent of your age. There was major money in selling these for England. Old people got screwed, young people got deals. Enter basic probability theory, and annuities get priced correctly.

Math geeks are always beating the system, and making the market more efficient.

[cruyff]

Pro gamblers contribute the same thing as pro athletes - the idea that a career can be made of something that realistically shouldn't be anything more than a hobby.

[curious]

What do you think?

My father's been a professional poker player for over 20 years. He says he's providing entertainment for rich poker players who want a challenge and don't mind losing $10-$20k a night. I guess that's kind of a service. I've always thought he was kind of rationalizing what he's doing, calling himself an "entertainer."

What about sports bettors who stay on their computer all day? What do they contribute to society?

Does it matter?

They provide good livings for hookers, drug dealers, enforcers, repo men, bail bondsmen, jailers, divorce attorneys, psychologists. Without gamblers society would collapse.

[accuscoresucks]

a ham hock to the local homeless shelter

[Stumpage]

Keep Moneybookers and Neteller up and running.....

[fearless]

What does a professional gambler contribute to society?


It's entirely up to each individual.

Apart from supporting an industry and being a consumer/taxpayer and all the obvious stuff, a professional gambler can do any number of discretionary things.

Speaking for myself, I use the flexibility with my time to do community service work in the area of providing training to front-line addictions workers. I participate as a volunteer in workshops and sit on panels etc.

If I was working a conventional job I wouldn't be able to do some of the stuff I do since it usually involves taking days off mid-week and scooting all around Southern Ontario. And I wouldn't be home so much to take phone calls from people looking for help or related information.

My contribution to tomcast's organization is made possible to a huge extent to my being a professional gambler. The interesting angle is his org does so much for people with all addictions - including gambling. So, even if only by accident, the gambling industry is actually contributing to helping problem gamblers rather than just creating and milking them.


But, as with any other profession, it depends on the individual how much they want to contribute to society.

You sound like an incredible person. Keep up the great work, I think you're earning some fantastic karma.

[Casperwaits]

What does a professional gambler contribute to society?


It's entirely up to each individual.

Apart from supporting an industry and being a consumer/taxpayer and all the obvious stuff, a professional gambler can do any number of discretionary things.

Speaking for myself, I use the flexibility with my time to do community service work in the area of providing training to front-line addictions workers. I participate as a volunteer in workshops and sit on panels etc.

If I was working a conventional job I wouldn't be able to do some of the stuff I do since it usually involves taking days off mid-week and scooting all around Southern Ontario. And I wouldn't be home so much to take phone calls from people looking for help or related information.

My contribution to tomcast's organization is made possible to a huge extent to my being a professional gambler. The interesting angle is his org does so much for people with all addictions - including gambling. So, even if only by accident, the gambling industry is actually contributing to helping problem gamblers rather than just creating and milking them.


But, as with any other profession, it depends on the individual how much they want to contribute to society.

Isn't this how Michael Landon on "Highway To Heaven" got his start?

[fearless]

They provide good livings for hookers, drug dealers, enforcers, repo men, bail bondsmen, jailers, divorce attorneys, psychologists. Without gamblers society would collapse.

If you include stock market gambling into the equation, I think what you said about society collapsing is absolutely true.

[Data]

I think that the free market is the foundation of the free world. Any market needs liquidity. The professional gamblers provide the liquidity for the betting markets. It comes with no surprise that the oppresssors of gambling are looked upon as the fascists because the idea of fascism is the opposite of the idea of the free world.

[fearless]

I think that the free market is the foundation of the free world. Any market needs liquidity. The professional gamblers provide the liquidity for the betting markets. It comes with no surprise that the oppresssors of gambling are looked upon as the fascists because the idea of fascism is the opposite of the idea of the free world.

Fascists still love stock markets though. Everybody loves stock markets and that's ALL GAMBLING (unless you can manipulate the market).

[jjgold]

They have no value at all, most pro gamblers are classless pieces of garbage with bad habits and no morals.

[Data]

Fascists still love stock markets though.

That is absolutely untrue. Fascists despise the speculators and the stock market operators in particular. Interestingly, the ideas of consciousness and contributing to society are very dear to fascists. The Nazi's anti-Semitism derivates from those ideas as the Jews were financiers and speculators who in fascists view contributed nothing to the society.

[fearless]

That is absolutely untrue. Fascists despise the speculators and the stock market operators in particular. Interestingly, the ideas of consciousness and contributing to society are very dear to fascists. The Nazi's anti-Semitism derivates from those ideas as the Jews were financiers and speculators who in fascists view contributed nothing to the society.

I guess I was thinking of Neocons. Some people call the Bush administration the Haliburton administration for good reasons, obviously.

[reno cool]

That is absolutely untrue. Fascists despise the speculators and the stock market operators in particular. Interestingly, the ideas of consciousness and contributing to society are very dear to fascists. The Nazi's anti-Semitism derivates from those ideas as the Jews were financiers and speculators who in fascists view contributed nothing to the society.

Interesting idea, although maybe a bit misleading. The reason the Nazis were "bad" was not because they didn't like speculators.(if in fact thats true)

I myself am not a fan of financiers (those are called loan sharks) or speculators. I think it's fun to play around with markets for money. But if it's a matter of life and death, and exploitation of people than thats different.

[Dark Horse]

Justin's point is very true. Gamblers add to science.

In the stock market good financial advise is extremely helpful service. People's retirement could depend on it.

And of course money gained can be used to serve society in any way desired. It's not necessarily the work itself that needs to be constructive.

[BrentCrude]

Here is the breakdown on who dragged the economy down!

Yup,gamblers sure don't contribute to producing much of anything the economy needs to thrive but lets not be so tough on them.Gamblers are actually not part of the 70% of the useless eaters that have caused the looming depression.They neither benefit the economy or drag it down so it's like you don't exist.A pro gambler is at least better than 70% of other people in what we call an economy.It's a false Keynesian economy where if we had to cut waste and quit paying drags and no producers,we would have a 40% unemployment rate.They say we have a 7% unemployment rate and say how bad that is but we really have a 40% rate because those 40% are just dead expendable weight.They are no better than the no show work contracts given to the mafia thugs on the Sopranos.

The cream of the crop who makes the economy run.Non union consumer goods manufacturers.Engineers that design consumer goods.I'm talking goods companies that are not subsidised in any way by the government or where their product solely is bought by any government entity.Look at the big 3 automakers where they are tied in with the government where they are nationalized industries.Let them die on the vine like capitalism intended.


Even medical products,medical services and pharma are mainly makework industries that are 80%bloated because they are tied in with government spending.

Construction is great too but contracting these days is mainly doing useless public works projects and building houses with funny money socialist federal reserve bailout mortgage money.80%diseased industry.

Defense industy production is 80%waste.

Being a teacher can be ok but usually you are diseased by the NEA union.That means even the productive courses in school have bloated budgets.All the teachers vote for the liberal big spending socialist politicians and that alone is a drag on the economy.Public education is diseased and schools are turning out morons that are taught nothing but social awareness crap and not enough math,chemistry,engineering and such.Colleges too are just socialist sesspools concerned with social engineering.

Anyone that works for some capacity in federal,state,county and local government.95% waste and totally diseased.They just are activists who vote into office socialists that will look out for them.We could have good roads,good infrastructure and all that good stuff that would make a healthy economy run if we would have spent 5% of what we did over the past 80 years.Poverty pimp social workers with psychology degrees and such are beyond 100% worthless.They not only collect a huge bloated salary for doing nothing constructive,they also get government tax payer money for other useless eater clients.

Financial services such as brokers,agents,accountants etc.90% worthless in a socialist non free market economy that we have.

Salesman,telemarketers and pitchmen sleeze that force their product or service on you.I feel sorry because the government socialized our economy so much that decent people not born into connections sometimes have to take these jobs because that's all that's available.Totally useless industry.

[Data]

I myself am not a fan of financiers (those are called loan sharks) or speculators. I think it's fun to play around with markets for money. But if it's a matter of life and death, and exploitation of people than thats different.

When people with democratic beliefs rightfully point to current administration's fascist properties they usually overlook an important point. The main republican's, and much even more so libertarian's, ideas of freedom and personal liberty are opposite to fascists ideas while the foundations of socialist, democratic and fascists ideas of fairness, consciousness and government's important role are pretty close.

[wtf]

interesting post brent

what country gets it right though, they all have their respective flaws.

[Richkas]

nothing

[durito]

nothing

What do unemployed 50 year old losers on welfare such as yourself contribute?

[teaserpleaser]

ouch....

[flyingillini]

Great thread

[reno cool]

When people with democratic beliefs rightfully point to current administration's fascist properties they usually overlook an important point. The main republican's, and much even more so libertarian's, ideas of freedom and personal liberty are opposite to fascists ideas while the foundations of socialist, democratic and fascists ideas of fairness, consciousness and government's important role are pretty close.

So are you concluding that fairness and consciousness are negatives because certain "bad characters" also believed in them, along with a bunch of other things?

[reno cool]

Yup,gamblers sure don't contribute to producing much of anything the economy needs to thrive but lets not be so tough on them.Gamblers are actually not part of the 70% of the useless eaters that have caused the looming depression.They neither benefit the economy or drag it down so it's like you don't exist.A pro gambler is at least better than 70% of other people in what we call an economy.It's a false Keynesian economy where if we had to cut waste and quit paying drags and no producers,we would have a 40% unemployment rate.They say we have a 7% unemployment rate and say how bad that is but we really have a 40% rate because those 40% are just dead expendable weight.They are no better than the no show work contracts given to the mafia thugs on the Sopranos.

The cream of the crop who makes the economy run.Non union consumer goods manufacturers.Engineers that design consumer goods.I'm talking goods companies that are not subsidised in any way by the government or where their product solely is bought by any government entity.Look at the big 3 automakers where they are tied in with the government where they are nationalized industries.Let them die on the vine like capitalism intended.


Even medical products,medical services and pharma are mainly makework industries that are 80%bloated because they are tied in with government spending.

Construction is great too but contracting these days is mainly doing useless public works projects and building houses with funny money socialist federal reserve bailout mortgage money.80%diseased industry.

Defense industy production is 80%waste.

Being a teacher can be ok but usually you are diseased by the NEA union.That means even the productive courses in school have bloated budgets.All the teachers vote for the liberal big spending socialist politicians and that alone is a drag on the economy.Public education is diseased and schools are turning out morons that are taught nothing but social awareness crap and not enough math,chemistry,engineering and such.Colleges too are just socialist sesspools concerned with social engineering.

Anyone that works for some capacity in federal,state,county and local government.95% waste and totally diseased.They just are activists who vote into office socialists that will look out for them.We could have good roads,good infrastructure and all that good stuff that would make a healthy economy run if we would have spent 5% of what we did over the past 80 years.Poverty pimp social workers with psychology degrees and such are beyond 100% worthless.They not only collect a huge bloated salary for doing nothing constructive,they also get government tax payer money for other useless eater clients.

Financial services such as brokers,agents,accountants etc.90% worthless in a socialist non free market economy that we have.

Salesman,telemarketers and pitchmen sleeze that force their product or service on you.I feel sorry because the government socialized our economy so much that decent people not born into connections sometimes have to take these jobs because that's all that's available.Totally useless industry.

So what you envision is a handful of people could own a bunch of machines and maybe hire a few people to produce everything thats needed. 99% of people would not be needed and should be killed off. After all you don't support welfare, and if a person is not needed by the economic system he has no right to survive.

O.K. so then the majority will rebel. You'll need to hire some goons and give them weapons to protect the worthwhile minority. You might also need to build a prison system and hire more people. So now you have 4% police and prison 95% in prison or dead and 1% owners. You should be happy Brent, this is probably where we're headed.

[JsmooveFTW]

Pro Gamblers are consumers who contribute to the economy by spending their winnings/earnings on essential and non-essential items at the retail level.

Ding ding ding

[Data]

So are you concluding that fairness and consciousness are negatives because certain "bad characters" also believed in them, along with a bunch of other things?

Fairness necessitates the authority to enforce it and it all goes downhill right from here. I understand that for people with liberal beliefs it is very hard to swallow that they believe in is the same as fascism while all they know about fascism is that it is something bad. They tend to mistakenly think that fascism is the same as "far right" and the only way to distance themselves from it is to be on the left. They do not know that historically and philosophically fascism is a left-wing theory.

The ideas seem beautiful at first and people just do not want to (or cannot) think why different flavors of very same ideas throughout history produced Inquisition, Nazi's concentration camps, GULAG and Islamic terrorism. The people who made that happen were not bad characters, they were normal people who acted according to their beliefs that they thought were right.

The problem with the humanity is that most people are incapable of analyzing this world and take their own action. What they do is believe and follow. Thinking about and revising your core beliefs is a tall order. I think that discussing these matters worth the time spent.

[Crayzee]

well- if he's good enough to gamble for a living-
and not work at all-then he leaves one extra job for someone else

[pico]

1. helping out the poor people in latin america
2. helping out runaway girls who need constant clients to keep up with their drug habit
3. helping espn to create more adviseritisng dollar by visitng them every ****ing hour so regular folks can see a higher budget sports coverage.
4. helping horse breeders to produce top quality horse, so incase someday we need horses to fight a war, we'll have faster horses.
5. helping the poor amatuers and some proffessional atheletes with side income.

[reno cool]

Fairness necessitates the authority to enforce it and it all goes downhill right from here. I understand that for people with liberal beliefs it is very hard to swallow that they believe in is the same as fascism while all they know about fascism is that it is something bad. They tend to mistakenly think that fascism is the same as "far right" and the only way to distance themselves from it is to be on the left. They do not know that historically and philosophically fascism is a left-wing theory.

The ideas seem beautiful at first and people just do not want to (or cannot) think why different flavors of very same ideas throughout history produced Inquisition, Nazi's concentration camps, GULAG and Islamic terrorism. The people who made that happen were not bad characters, they were normal people who acted according to their beliefs that they thought were right.

The problem with the humanity is that most people are incapable of analyzing this world and take their own action. What they do is believe and follow. Thinking about and revising your core beliefs is a tall order. I think that discussing these matters worth the time spent.

I do find your points thought provoking and somewhat original. And I surely agree that "thinking about and revising your core beliefs is a tall order".
You say that fairness necessitates the authority to enforce it. But I have to say that any society including an Anarchistic society has to have some kind of rules of fairness that everyone agrees on or at least tolerates. In our capitalist society we have same rules that are indeed very strictly enforced. So we all have concepts of fairness, they're just skewed in various ways.
Personally, I believe a more equitable society avoids unnecessary strife. A society that excludes and marginalizes many is a bad one. I don't believe the Nazis were staunch supporters of equality. But anyway, what made the Nazis infamous and despised (rightfully so) was their aggression and abuse of human rights. And when I put it that way it sort of resembles another famous nation which is very anti-socialist.