Books as Banks?!

[ericmangin]

does anyone reccommend (for many reasons) or adhere to:

using offshore sportsbooks as a bank.

keeping large, significants amounts of money in these books, trying to increase the total, but always being able to withdraw the money whenever you please.

especially in these uncertain times, people might disagree with this theory.

hypothetically, let's say you agree, which books would be able to accomodate this?

[HeeeHAWWWW]

No.

Stick it in a blue chip bank somewhere, it's safer than any book. If you're especially paranoid, do it in a country that offers government guarantees on bank deposits (eg UK or Ireland).

[dcbt]

No.

Stick it in a blue chip bank somewhere, it's safer than any book. If you're especially paranoid, do it in a country that offers government guarantees on bank deposits (eg UK or Ireland).

uhhhhh, US banks are like this too - deposits are FDIC insured...

[Mudcat]

I would definitely disagree with this philosophy. These are betting enterprises. Some books that were highly rated at one time have gone down the toilet.

Big mistake to think of sportsbooks as the equivalent of banks IMO.



But since you asked for the best books for this, I would say CRIS/Bookmaker, WSEX, Greek.

Pinnacle would be right up there (but I recall you are American).

Actually some of the British books would probably be comparatively secure but I would let people who use those comment on that.

[ericmangin]

what is a blue chip bank?

[WileOut]

lol eric I guess its an American bank that has up to 100,000 FDIC insurance. Like all of them.

As far as the safest books mudcat spelled it out right. Cris (also including bookmaker, DSI), WSEX (also including matchbook), and Greek (also including Betjamica).

Perhaps someone with more extensive knowledge of the offshore books can add more to the list.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

uhhhhh, US banks are like this too - deposits are FDIC insured...

Fine, then stick it in there instead :-) I only mentioned UK/Ireland because that's what I know.

[WileOut]

HeeeHawwww is that your mule in the pic?

[dcbt]

[QUOTE=WileOut;1287569]lol eric I guess its an American bank that has up to 100,000 FDIC insurance. Like all of them.
QUOTE]

it's actually 250,000 now. they just changed it in october i think.

[WileOut]

Thats good news dcbt. Heeeehawww is that your mule in the avatar?

[RogueScholar]

Philosophically I think this would be quite the slippery slope. Even the most ardently disciplined of gamblers will encounter a situation that seems to offer such value that they feel inclined to wager more on the outcome than would be prudent. That's why most professionals keep relatively modest balances in their wagering accounts, to remove the temptation to bet it all on a "sure thing" or chase a particularly demoralizing loss.

There are plenty of secure financial instruments in the world which will not only safeguard your wealth but offer a return on it. Most importantly, remember that "you can't take it with you" and that sometimes the highest dividend paid on wealth is that which you pay yourself by sharing it with others in need.

[durito]

That's why most professionals keep relatively modest balances in their wagering accounts, to remove the temptation to bet it all on a "sure thing" or chase a particularly demoralizing loss.

This is ridiculous.

[compaqDikk]

we use prosper.com and borrowers as our bank

[jjgold]

Storying money in a book has to be one of dumbest things I have ever heard

Put it in the fukkin bank

[betplom]

This is ridiculous.

No, it isn't.

Don't worry though, unless you stop by the think tank, you won't be seeing much of me.

Promises, promises.

[RogueScholar]

This is ridiculous.

Care to elaborate? I'm not speaking from personal experience as my wagering units still have pictures of Andrew Jackson on them. I was simply making what I thought to be a reasonable assessment based on the fact that SBR_John himself has said that the owners of these books are not the "choir boy" type.

I don't know about yourself, but I would tend to only trust others with significant portions of my wealth if they were not only scrupulous, but operating under regulations such that theft of my money would entail an extremely high probability of them losing large measures of personal freedom.

Thus far I have no reason not to trust the books that I use, but even these years of hassle-free sailing with them would not lead me to place money with them for no other reason than safe-keeping. If I'm missing salient details in the equation, I would enjoy being educated about them.

[durito]

No, it isn't.

Yes it is. But, hey you probably know better.

Promises, promises.

I'm making an honest effort to only post in the subforums. I'm sorry this thread was linked to players talk too, I didn't realize it.

[durito]

Care to elaborate? I'm not speaking from personal experience as my wagering units still have pictures of Andrew Jackson on them. I was simply making what I thought to be a reasonable assessment based on the fact that SBR_John himself has said that the owners of these books are not the "choir boy" type.

I don't know about yourself, but I would tend to only trust others with significant portions of my wealth if they were not only scrupulous, but operating under regulations such that theft of my money would entail an extremely high probability of them losing large measures of personal freedom.

Thus far I have no reason not to trust the books that I use, but even these years of hassle-free sailing with them would not lead me to place money with them for no other reason than safe-keeping. If I'm missing salient details in the equation, I would enjoy being educated about them.

Now you are bringing up an entirely different point. Not keeping large sums of balances there because you don't trust the books is another discussion entirely.

You said professionals don't keep large sums because they would be tempted to chase or bet too much on a "lock". By definition no professional gambler chases or thinks anything is a lock. Every professional I've come across has a predefined staking strategy and they abide by it.

[betplom]

Yes it is. But, hey you probably know better.

How could I know better? You only offered a single line response with no explanation, I simply responded in similar fashion to make my point. If you responded like this:

You said professionals don't keep large sums because they would be tempted to chase or bet too much on a "lock". By definition no professional gambler chases or thinks anything is a lock. Every professional I've come across has a predefined staking strategy and they abide by it.

in the first place, much of this nitpicking would have been avoided.

I'm making an honest effort to only post in the subforums. I'm sorry this thread was linked to players talk too, I didn't realize it.

You are forgiven.

[RogueScholar]

You said professionals don't keep large sums because they would be tempted to chase or bet too much on a "lock". By definition no professional gambler chases or thinks anything is a lock. Every professional I've come across has a predefined staking strategy and they abide by it.

I would enjoin you to re-read my first post in this thread and note that I deliberately used the qualifier "relatively". I did so because I was addressing a topic which clearly is going to involve different numbers for different people. As I was attempting to personify the "professional" mindset, I could find no good reason to have a balance with a sportsbook which exceeded logical capitalization based on stake size.

My mention of chasing losses and "locks" should have been a separate paragraph, but I included it in my post to address issues that may face a gambler willing to capitalize the endeavour at larger levels than his experience would make wise.

I realize that I may not have made this point as clearly as I would have liked, but I don't think that was any justification to call my statement ridiculous. There are plenty of others here to dismiss out of hand, people that fail to take the time to frame their thoughts as I do.

[dwaechte]

I would enjoin you to re-read my first post in this thread and note that I deliberately used the qualifier "relatively". I did so because I was addressing a topic which clearly is going to involve different numbers for different people. As I was attempting to personify the "professional" mindset, I could find no good reason to have a balance with a sportsbook which exceeded logical capitalization based on stake size.

My mention of chasing losses and "locks" should have been a separate paragraph, but I included it in my post to address issues that may face a gambler willing to capitalize the endeavour at larger levels than his experience would make wise.

I realize that I may not have made this point as clearly as I would have liked, but I don't think that was any justification to call my statement ridiculous. There are plenty of others here to dismiss out of hand, people that fail to take the time to frame their thoughts as I do.

I'm a big fan of most of your posts RS, but I'm with durito here, that statement was ridiculous. Even the 'relatively' qualifier doesn't change much about the statement. You still outright stated that some professionals would keep the balance down to avoid chasing and big losses, something no professional would have to do. You can argue that many pros would not keep a balance so high that the majority of their money was being unused for wagering purposes, but that's a different argument altogether than the one you made.

[RogueScholar]

I'm a big fan of most of your posts RS, but I'm with durito here, that statement was ridiculous. Even the 'relatively' qualifier doesn't change much about the statement. You still outright stated that some professionals would keep the balance down to avoid chasing and big losses, something no professional would have to do. You can argue that many pros would not keep a balance so high that the majority of their money was being unused for wagering purposes, but that's a different argument altogether than the one you made.

First, thank you for taking the time to read what I write here. I try not to post drivel, even when it may stoop to giving others a hard time, I try to make the presentation of my thoughts an intelligent one.

I appreciate your taking time to correctly and succinctly point out that my statement was poorly constructed. I see your point, and agree, although I don't think the underlying premise is completely false.

As humans we are all impulsive, and none of us can claim to have made the right decision at all times. Obviously a professional gambler must have mastered the art of impulse control, but it would still be possible to allow external circumstances to affect their judgment. Therein lies the wisdom of not having more money held in balances than ones wagering model would necessitate.

Anyhow, I have now flogged this equine well past its expiration. My ire was directed at Durito for being insulting without explanation, but I have come to agree with you both on the matter after further discussion. I do very much enjoy these forensics, a word which shares its etymology with the word 'forum' itself. Thank you both for engaging me in this classical pursuit.

[MoneySportsGuy]

I would not recommend putting large sums of money in offshore books strictly to use as a "safe place". Get bunch of bank accounts and do that, its smarter

[ericmangin]

no one as mentioned the IRS. i would imagine this is the case because taxes and the IRS are a touchy subject.

however, large sums of money put into a US bank are going to be taxed, which is going to be followed by lots of questioning.

those of us who do this for a living have very difficult decisions to make regarding our reporting to the government.

i don't know about you, but I am NOT willing to gamble on the IRS not questioning how i make a living or pay my bills.

without being taxed up the ass, what/where is the best place to keep our funds, other than scattered around the house?

[durito]

no one as mentioned the IRS. i would imagine this is the case because taxes and the IRS are a touchy subject.

however, large sums of money put into a US bank are going to be taxed, which is going to be followed by lots of questioning.

those of us who do this for a living have very difficult decisions to make regarding our reporting to the government.

i don't know about you, but I am NOT willing to gamble on the IRS not questioning how i make a living or pay my bills.

without being taxed up the ass, what/where is the best place to keep our funds, other than scattered around the house?

It's not a difficult decision at all.

If you are from the USA, you owe taxes on your gambling income. Period. Pay them. Find a qualified professional to help you.

[MoneySportsGuy]

put it in strong financial international bank.

[robert715]

Storying money in a book has to be one of dumbest things I have ever heard

Put it in the fukkin bank

Yeah really. FDIC insured or an unlicensed offshore account. Hmmm. It's not the Great Depression. Wow, I shouldn't even be commenting, this is to stupid.

[ericmangin]

do you think it's bettter to claim as a professional gambler and pay the self-mployment tax, or simply to claim winnings as a seperate entity?

[robert715]

do you think it's bettter to claim as a professional gambler and pay the self-mployment tax, or simply to claim winnings as a seperate entity?

Unless your winning serious cash I wouldn't worry about claiming anything. There also has to be a paper trail, if a person is withdrawing using ** or **. There is no trail. I'm not an accountant, just common sense. BTW, I asked my accountant about this last year and he told me if I didn't win for the YEAR not to worry about it.

[ericmangin]

i rent and drive a toyota, so maybe i don't have to worry about reporting just yet.

i do hope one day i have to concern myself with this issue thougth, just trying to be better informed for when that day comes.

did you mean moneygram and western union create a trail? or that there is no trail when using moneygram or western union?

[robert715]

I don't think there is a trail using ** or **. It's not like a check. Not 100% but it seems like common sense to me.

[durito]

if you make money, you owe taxes. it does not matter if there is a paper trail.

if it's a small amount, sure you probably won't get caught. but, you are still breaking the law.

[ericmangin]

so Durito,

do you think it is better to claim as a professional gambler and pay the self-employment tax, or claim your winnings as a seperate entity all together?

[durito]

That would depend a lot of things about you that I don't know.

You need to consult a competent professional accountant or tax attorney.

[moonbeam]

I sometimes use books for "saving the tax"

But I´m not happy with this