BetOnSports closed for business?

[SBR_John]

The BBC report seems a little off base. 1st off; he has not been sent to prision. Prision is for convicted people. He is in the county jail and he has requested his bail hearing be in the jurisdiction where the charges were filed. To me, it would possibly appear like he has an informal deal to have bail granted if he stays in the St Louis area. Here is a report that both the AP and eGaming are running:

David Carruthers’ lawyer requested a postponement of his bail hearing. The hearing will be held instead in the federal district court in St Louis, Missouri. No date was set.

[JoshW]

Anyone have a guess informed or otherwise on when they might start doing payouts? Does this bail postponement affect that?

[Illusion]

Here is the AP report

FORT WORTH, Texas - The chief executive of BetOnSports PLC, a major online sports-betting operation, remained in custody Friday on racketeering and conspiracy charges after his lawyer asked to postpone a bail hearing.

The hearing for David Carruthers will be held instead in federal district court in St. Louis. No date was set.

“We are very optimistic that the court in St. Louis can fashion some reasonable conditions for his release,” said Carruthers’ lawyer Tim Evans after the brief hearing before a magistrate in U.S. district court.

The executive was arrested Sunday at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport as he waited to board a flight to Costa Rica, where the company has a major operation.

Carruthers and 10 others, including the founder of BetOnSports, were named in a 22-count indictment unsealed this week by federal prosecutors in St. Louis. The government says BetOnSports fraudulently took bets from U.S. residents by phone and the Internet, and failed to pay excise taxes.

The company this week shut down its U.S.-facing Web sites to comply with a federal judge’s order, which it plans to challenge.

Friday’s hearing lasted less than five minutes. Evans declined to say precisely why he preferred to move the detention hearing to St. Louis.

Carruthers did not speak. He was shackled at the ankles — handcuffs were removed shortly before the judge arrived — and he was dressed in an orange jail jumpsuit and matching canvas slip-on shoes instead of the jeans and T-shirt that he wore at a court appearance Monday.

The lawyer said Carruthers was in good health and “doing very well under the circumstances, similar to how you would be doing if you had an orange suit on.”

After the hearing, he was expected to be returned to a federal facility in Fort Worth to await travel to St. Louis.

The case has attracted intense media interest in the United Kingdom, from where Carruthers hails. Reporters representing three major London daily newspapers traveled to Fort Worth to cover Friday’s hearing.

[SBR_John]

Anyone have a guess informed or otherwise on when they might start doing payouts? Does this bail postponement affect that?

The bail postponement has a little effect. Had he made bail it might of made it easier to have the restraining order set aside.

Its safe to say that legal delays and possibly BOS's desire to hold the deposits as a bargaining chip could delay payouts many days and weeks and even months.

[ACE IN THE HOLE]

I spoked to Millenium Sports which is owned by BoS two days ago & they said they should be up and running by today......well, no such luck. Millenium had no answers early today when I called & said no supervisors were present at the time. There phone lines were still up and running so I guess that is a good sign.

I spoke to another source and they told me that by Monday they will be back up & running for sure! They said the same thing happened a few years ago and it all blew over in a couple of weeks.......something tells me this is very different though!

I used Millenium, not BoS, does that make a difference at this point or no? I know the guy who was in charge at Millenium was indicted too. How much impact will all of the BoS stuff have on Millenium? Any help would be much appreciated.

[SBR_John]

BetMill is in exactly the same boat as BOS at this point.

I really dont consider their employees very credible sources at this point. God Bless them they are worried sick and want to put the best face on but they have no real information.

I think it will be OK Ace but its going to take a little while to sort out.

[JC]

John,

Last time I checked BOP.gov he was at FCI Ft. Worth which is a Federal Low Security Prison. They may have an FDC, Federal Detention Center associated with it.

FCI (low) or FDC is much better than a couty jail.

[Chuck Sims]

When you hire expensive lawyers, they have the ability to work behind the scenes and find out what the score is. What they found out is that David Carruthers was going to be denied bail. So instead of the embarrassment of that happening in open court, the defense team cancels the bail hearing.

Thats not good for people wanting their money. The scumbag CEO and his company could care less about people wanting their money. They built their company scamming people, why stop now.

[JC]

My take on the bail hearing being postponed:

It's more likely that his lawyer did not want to argue before an interim judge in TX who would be less inclined mess with Missouri's case. Rather than risk soiling the record, better to argue bail once in front of a federal judge in Missouri.

[increasedodds]

Also gives the UK governments some time to figure out what is going on and to possibly put some pressure on the U.S. government.

Hey George - you know that guy you are holding. We're not very happy about it.

Oh Tony, what should we do?

How about if you give him bail and we'll work together to steal all the oil in Iraq.

Tony, you are so smart. Let's go eat lunch.

[isetcap]

Also gives the UK governments some time to figure out what is going on and to possibly put some pressure on the U.S. government.

Hey George - you know that guy you are holding. We're not very happy about it.

Oh Tony, what should we do?

How about if you give him bail and we'll work together to steal all the oil in Iraq.

Tony, you are so smart. Let's go eat lunch.

Would be nice if they'd steal all the oil in Iraq. They keep letting the Iraqis sell it for their own gain while we're paying $3 a gallon at the pump and the people in the UK are paying $8 a gallon!!!

We fought a war for oil and we keep forgetting to take it!

[ACE IN THE HOLE]

I did some research about 6 years ago before selecting my book & found Millenium to be the best choice for me. I had a great 3-4 years with them (never any problems with naything), but it seemed like something changed with them in the last 2-3 years. I don't know if the higher ups changed in the company or what.

In the last few years, when I needed supervisor's assistance they'd get shitty with me on the phone & wouldnt bend on any of the areas I had issues with.

I had absolutley no idea they were owned by BoS though! Tragically I just found that out this week & now have all my money tied up in limbo.

Last football season I was at a Steelers game in Pittsburgh & there were a bunch of BoS people there passing out t-shirts & playing cards getting people to fill out little info cards and what not. I couldnt believe it. I thought that was very balsy to be doing that on property owned by an NFL franchise ( now look at Calvin Arye....basically rubbing it in the gov'ts face! I wish these guys wouldve just layed low like before.) I remember talking with a few people at the tailgate party about how we were glad we didnt use BoS because none of us heard anything good about them, only bad.....little did I know!!!!!!!!!

[Chuck Sims]

Ace in the Hole, If only you had found these kind of forums sooner. Many people have posted their horror stories in the last few years about the S-H-I-T book Millennium. Many ignored the warnings. Would you have changed books or hanged with them if you had read the complaints?

[ACE IN THE HOLE]

Chuck I know you hate these guys, but I have not had any problems with them until recently like I said.

Now, had I known they were owned and operated by BoS, I would've definitely been out b/c I heard too many horror stories about (BoS) them & didnt like the way they conducted their business.

I never heard anything bad about Millenium though.....do you have any articles or places where I can go to see the negative comments on Millenium? I looked here but there isnt much.

Its my fault for not doing my homework I suppose. I just hope they reopen soon so I can get my money out.

Thanks Chuck.

[Chuck Sims]

This site SBR has rated BetOnSports and of course all books owned by them a "D" for quite some time. The books BOS owned were listed.

Also posters were posting "BOS/Millennium" to make sure people understood that these two S-H-I-T books were one in the same.

A site called "TheRX" had many posters complaining about Millennium stealing bonuses. One poster who complained about Millennium in general got his last 4 bonuses that he had received stolen from him. The former owner Norman Steinberg, who is now a wanted fugitive for racketeering, conspiracy, tax evasion, mail fraud, used to post there as "Millennium Sportsbook*". What a piece of work he is. Openly admitted stealing bonuses from people who won money. Did'nt think anything wrong with it. Dropped a few 4-letter bombs on me and laughed after stealing my money.

[ACE IN THE HOLE]

How exactly were they stealing bonuses?

[Chuck Sims]

ACE, the former Millennium owner explained it this way. If you received a $2,000 bonus and met the rollover requirement, proved to Millennium you were not a loser, and then asked for a WD, your account balance would suddenly have $2,000 missing from your account.

The wanted fugitive/former owner called it "revoking" the bonus and that it was'nt for "those type of players". In other words, the bonus is for losers or the bonus gets "revoked". Is it a wonder why these scammers made a fortune?

[carlos vincente]

guys in mvp sportsbook claiming they will open on monday at 2 pm est for sure.. lets see...

[ACE IN THE HOLE]

Things havent been that way for a long time as far as I can remember. Whenever money is deposited now, you get, let's say a 15% free play bonus which can be used only to bet a game. So if you deposit $1k, you'll get a $150 free play to wager on a game....if you win the money is added to your account. IF you lose, you lose only the $150 free play money and not any of your original cash that was deposited.

[isetcap]

Things havent been that way for a long time as far as I can remember. Whenever money is deposited now, you get, let's say a 15% free play bonus which can be used only to bet a game. So if you deposit $1k, you'll get a $150 free play to wager on a game....if you win the money is added to your account. IF you lose, you lose only the $150 free play money and not any of your original cash that was deposited.

If you make special arrangements with support on a large deposit, such as $5000, they are often willing to provide you with a substantially higher bonus amount. If you proceed to do this at another book within the BoS family and then attempt to scalp the bonuses between the two books, they will declare you are violating their "spirit of the bonus" policy and revoke your bonuses and winnings received from those bonuses. Some people see this as playing by the rules, whereas others cry out that it's the worst kind of thievery imaginable and make it their lifelong crusade because they got caught and its their only recourse.

[LGBoots]

If you make special arrangements with support on a large deposit, such as $5000, they are often willing to provide you with a substantially higher bonus amount. If you proceed to do this at another book within the BoS family and then attempt to scalp the bonuses between the two books, they will declare you are violating their "spirit of the bonus" policy and revoke your bonuses and winnings received from those bonuses. Some people see this as playing by the rules, whereas others cry out that it's the worst kind of thievery imaginable and make it their lifelong crusade because they got caught and its their only recourse.

Trying to 'scalp' bonuses between the same family of books is pretty dumb & I can understand them revoking the bonuses of punters doing this .

[isetcap]

Trying to 'scalp' bonuses between the same family of books is pretty dumb & I can understand them revoking the bonuses of punters doing this .

Apparently this is only the domain of FBI agents operating from the same IP address.

It's not the way I would operate if I were running a sportsbook, but if they're willing to hand out 40% - 50% bonuses on large deposits without retribution, it seems you're best off taking advantage of such a situation by playing by their rules.

[imgv94]

[Chuck Sims]

ACE, Millennium gave a $5000 bonus a few weeks ago to a player who they thought was a loser, then robbed the player of his bonus + winnings. According to their bogus rules he broke a rule when he made a wager and then bet the other side of the same game when he decided to get off the bet. He lost the juice because he layed minus money on both bets. That was enough for Millennium to rob this guy.

Its about time this book got their comeuppance.

[SBR_John]

We are expecting news on Tuesday. BOS could file for bankruptcy at any time. But we think they will wait and see if they can get the Restraining Order set aside before making any other moves. The temp retraining order should be heard this week, likely on Thursday.

[Doug]

ACE, Millennium gave a $5000 bonus a few weeks ago to a player who they thought was a loser, then robbed the player of his bonus + winnings. According to their bogus rules he broke a rule when he made a wager and then bet the other side of the same game when he decided to get off the bet. He lost the juice because he layed minus money on both bets. That was enough for Millennium to rob this guy.

Its about time this book got their comeuppance.

Chuck: Why didn't you warn people ?

[poolstag]

As things stand, it's hard to see how BoS could justify filing for bankruptcy. I mean, they'll only be in financial trouble once Carruthers is found guilty, and they're hit with big fines? Until then, aren't they actually financially secure? Or am I being naive?

It doesn't look promising for those of us with large sums of money tied up in BoS accounts. Returning funds to customers must be at the bottom of BoS's list of priorities. The longer this goes on, it seems, the less chance we have of getting our money back.

Before Chuck Sims, or whatever the guy's name is, comes on here with more wise-guy comments - your comments really don't help those of us who have money tied up in BoS and are desparately worried that they're going to lose it all. This situation is placing a massive strain on me, as I'm sure it is others.

It's particularly frustrating when you're not even from the US! Online gambling is perfectly legal here in the UK. There are adverts for online gambling everywhere you turn. The Government are actually passing legislation to allow MORE gambling.

[Chuck Sims]

poolstag, it was not a wise-guy comment by Doug. I have been warning people to stay away from BetOnSports and all their other scamming books for years. I posted that this S-H-I-T book was a house of cards and to short the stock.

What boggles my mind is that watchdog sites(before they were paid off by BOS) sent out warnings that BOS was a "NO PAY" book and to stay away. Yet, from what I am reading people actually sent these thieves their money anyway.

[poolstag]

Chuck, it's you that's being a wise-guy, not Doug!!!

I'm sure you're enjoying saying "I told you so" but it's not helping anyone!

[Chuck Sims]

I feel your pain. What I am not enjoying is these asshole mods on another site who promoted these scammers with phony "each account is guaranteed up to $10,000" BS to counter my your money is not safe posts. People fell for it hook, line, and sinker and sent their $ to the crooks waiting arms.

[JoshW]

John, why bankruptcy? Seems a little extreme, but so is shutting down all your sites and stop making payouts. If the bankruptcy comes, would players deposits get a priority on debts or would it go to all their bank loans first I wonder.

[TLD]

I’m very much hoping customers get their money back from this group of books. I have played at some of their books in the past but luckily currently have no funded accounts with them. But with all the advantages that were available betting with them, I can understand how one could have done a cost-benefit analysis and decided to accept the risk.

Kudos to Chuck, JC and other posters who repeatedly stated the reasons against playing at these books. Despite what several posters seem to believe, as long as one reader or potential reader of these forums is playing at a book like these without being aware of the risks, such warnings are always relevant and always helpful. Kudos also to SBR itself and any other site that bucked the growing trend of accepting money from these crooks to put up their advertising banners, shill for them, overlook their wrongdoing, etc.

[nikosgr]

I see that BoS Plc still has a D- rating.
I just cant get it, 2 highly positioned members are in prison, gamblers have no access to their money (probably we are talking about millions of $), and still D-.
I think that a very fair rating would be an F till all ppl get their money back.

[SBR_John]

nikosgr,
We are certainly watching this closely. We need some more information which will certainly come out in the next few days.

John, why bankruptcy? Seems a little extreme, but so is shutting down all your sites and stop making payouts. If the bankruptcy comes, would players deposits get a priority on debts or would it go to all their bank loans first I wonder.

Clients are always last except when a US court orders US citizens paid first. I don't know if US citizens will be paid first but it would make sense. Keep in mind that bankruptcy does not mean they will close down, but it may allow them to manage their debt along with their run on the bank.

[Santo]

If they file bankruptcy in London, as a London based company, I think a US court telling them to pay US Citizens will have virtually zero impact on the process.