Is it totally legal to bet sports online in Canada? Also are your winnings considered income and do you have to pay taxes on them? Say for 5-10 thousand.
Thanks in Advance
Thanks in Advance
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Not for only 5-10Comment -
The general consensus is that unless gambling is your main source of income, the CRA will not care. Now, nothing is set in stone with these guys, but it's very unlikely they'll give a damn about 5-10k.Comment -
It's a grey area. Take Bodog. Last I heard, they were operating legally on an Indian reserve in Quebec. They don't allow Canadians to wager there because they don't want to butt heads with the government. Indian reservations have their own special tax situation. How much of the Bodog monies is going to provincial and federal coffers? Not much, if any. The provinces have their own gaming empires and don't want competition. The OLG is a multi-billion dollar organization. Don't try to muscle in on their monopoly. Same for Quebec.
As for taxes, it's a cat and mouse game. You're trying to hide money and they're trying to find it. Don't let the government know how much money you have.
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I have heard people make an argument that gambling isn't actually legal in Canada. They say it is against the letter of the law but no one can be bothered enforcing it.
I don't know. I have filed tax returns with Professional Gambler as my profession and it was fine. I have seen the section of the tax code where it describes the conditions where you would be considered professional and therefore have to pay tax.
I'm no legal expert but to me, it seems like it must be legal.Comment -
Mudcat, does the tax code specifically mention internet gaming at offshore havens? There are plenty of casinos and racetracks in Canada for one to be labeled a professional gambler.
Why does Bodog exclude Canadians if they are fully licensed and legal?Comment -
Have you been doing this for a while? I assume you were audited at some point? What kind of documentation did you need to provide, if any?Originally posted by Mudcat
Hope you don't mind these questions - I might do this in the near future and I can't much concrete info on the subject.Comment -
Originally posted by sickler
Damn. I was afraid someone was going to follow up on that. I don't remember. It has been several years since I was investigating that.
I remember there are conditions like
If you use special knowledge and expertise to make a profit
Damn. I don't even remember more than that. There is something about the nature of your record-keeping. They are obviously trying to make it tax-free if you just get lucky and have a big lottery win or something. They are trying to pin it down to people who are methodical and professional.
But I don't remember off the top of my head if it specifies the exact types of gambling, on-line or otherwise. I don't think so - but I don't know for sure. My accountant knows exactly what I do and she has never sounded any alarms. But that doesn't really prove anything, does it.
I know the little section from the tax code has been posted on this forum and I have been in discussions about it. It has been awhile though. If I get a minute, I'll see if I can find it.Comment -
Originally posted by Matt Rain
I have been doing it for 6 years. I have never been audited (but I wouldn't have a problem if I was).
I have used bank records as documentation, as well as anything else showing business-related money going in and out (like Western Union bills, office supplies receipts etc.)
This year I am going to see if I can just use my spreadsheet. I suspect if I do that, I would be more likely to be audited. So maybe it makes sense to just stick with the bank statements. I'll talk to my accountant about it.
I put Professional Gambler as my profession for the first few years. About two years ago I switched and started putting Arbitrageur. I'm not even exactly sure why. Both descriptions are accurate. Don't even know why I mention it - but there it is.Comment -
Cool, thanks, much appreciated. I find it interesting that the CRA didn't bat an eye after seeing "Professional Gambler" - maybe a sign of the times, what with all these kids playing poker. And yeah, I would also think that banking statements are the best way to go about it.Comment -
According to Wikipedia
"The following types of income are not taxed in Canada (this list is not exhaustive):- gifts and inheritances;
- lottery winnings;
- winnings from betting or gambling for simple recreation or enjoyment;"
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This doesn't apply to professional gamblers. If you turn a consistent profit by gambling, the government considers that it is your occupation, not a form of recreation or a one-shot windfall.Originally posted by youngbutgoodComment -
Right, Bodog and Sportsinteraction, which allows Canadians to play while Bodog restricts Canadians, both operate from the Kahnawake reserve outside Montreal yet the membership rules are different.Originally posted by sickler
I personally believe legal/licensed sportsbooks will eventually be opened in Canada, probably at the existing casinos to start with.
I know they are currently building an "entertainment" centre at Woodbine racetrack, I doubt the purpose behind construction is for stage shows and movies.
It was the same with "craps" , only a few years ago it was illegal to operate a craps game even in a government casino due to an archaic law on the books from before Confederation, it was amended to allow craps in casinos. Same thing will happen with sports betting, its a natural progression.
My $0.02Comment -
Plom, if licensed sportsbooks become a reality in Canada (outside of indian reserves where they pretty much do what they want), we gotta hope they're opened to the private sector, 'cause if the OLG is behind it we'll be given 30 or 40 cent lines.
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Right, I hope they contract the management out to some reputable big name book, I wouldn't put it past the OLG to come up with lines as you mentioned.Originally posted by sicklerPlom, if licensed sportsbooks become a reality in Canada (outside of indian reserves where they pretty much do what they want), we gotta hope they're opened to the private sector, 'cause if the OLG is behind it we'll be given 30 or 40 cent lines.Comment -
Originally posted by sicklerPlom, if licensed sportsbooks become a reality in Canada (outside of indian reserves where they pretty much do what they want), we gotta hope they're opened to the private sector, 'cause if the OLG is behind it we'll be given 30 or 40 cent lines.
If the OLG was behind it? 40 cent lines if we're lucky.
And then they'll start the intense efforts to make on-line betting illegal to wipe out the competition.Comment -
Bodog moved to antigua some time ago.Comment -
Mudcat, they would have to be competitive. I don't think anything worse than a 40 cent line would cut it. On proline they do have a 60 cent line for totals, but sides are difficult to gauge because they have a tie option (in football a game decided by 3 points or less, or a game that goes to OT......in hoops a game decided by 5 points or less, or a game that goes to OT.......in hockey a game that goes to shootout.......in baseball a game decided by 1 run or a game that goes into extra innings. Hockey sides show a 50 cent line, but take away the tie option and it would probably be adjusted to become a 40 cent line.Comment -
Originally posted by durito
Much of Bodog is run from the reserve. That's where the servers are. Click on the "about bodoglife" link at their site. http://www.bodoglife.com/en/media-room.html
The big photo isn't of a smiling Calvin Ayre, but of the smiling Mohawk tribal chief.Comment -
what if you are a student and this is your only source of income beside student loans?Originally posted by mathdotcomComment -
Originally posted by youngbutgood
Don't worry about it. If detected and brought to your attention, play ignorant.
"I didn't know" is better than "I knew and tried to avoid".Comment -
This was funny.
Some time ago Bowman's used to advertise on the Fan590.
Bowman's used to have a racebook.
WEG (Woodbine Entertainment Group) sent some laywers after the Fan. I think the result was that Bowman's took down their racebook, or at the very least stopped taking action on Woodbine races. Maybe they stopped advertising on the Fan all together, I can't remember now.
There was some legality only involving advertising of the gambling or something like this. Kind of like how prostitution is not illegal, but living off the money is.
So David Wilmot, WEG CEO, and THE SON OF A GUY... went on the Fan to explain his position on Prime Time Sports with Bob McCowan. It became clear that Wilmot called up and asked to be put on. McCowan is very pro gambling and basically seemed disgusted by the entire situation.
Wilmont went on some bizarre rant about he'd love if Woodbine could compete with poker sites and this and that, blah, blah, blah.
I really hate Wilmot and the WEG employees who have been known to attack pro offshore guys on blog etc.
They were very sneaky with the whole PTC situation.
Premier Turf Club is a very popular public rebate shop. Woodbine allowed them into their pools, on one condition, that they do not allow Canadians to wager on the Woodbine races.
A Woodbine employee set up a PTC account, and I guess the PTC system automatically deposits $1 in your account when you sign up as a friendly gesture or something.
So the Woodbine guy bets the $1. They then cancel the agreement they had with PTC. That wasn't the worst of it though, they went on to release these press releases, chastising rebate shops, online gambling, off shore industry etc. It was unreal. They are snaky bastards.
This is a rant, I don't know if it is legal or not.Comment -
Yeah that's the creepy part. Will the various Canadian legal gambling entities take steps to shut down off-shore competition?
Instead of working at being more competitive, will they focus their efforts on legal wrangling?
I have heard that that had a lot to do with the current situation in the States. Lobbies representing Vegas and Atlantic City and various other concerns pulled every string and pushed every button they could - and they finally got their way.
Not sure how much truth there is to that. It certainly seems plausible. Maybe it wasn't the only cause but it was probably at least a factor.Comment -
Shutting down the competition would mean doing something about the huge online gaming business being run within Canada's borders at Kahnawake. For a fee, they will host these offshore sites. Does the government have the balls to start another confrontation with those injuns? Remember Oka.
Interesting reading: http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/416133Comment -
As long as our governement is in the political mess that they are in right now, it will be years before any serious assault on offshore gambling would take place, and that is assuming that they have any intention of doing it at all which i don't believe they do. And as far as WEG is concerned, they are just a bunch of ignorant whiners, who are trying to pass the blame on their own incompetence. Plus with the slot money coming up for renewal in a very short time, they will have other, more major problems to deal with than to push to ban offshore gambling.Comment
