BetOnSports: SBR's opinion and Q & A thread

[SBR_John]

Player questions being received at SBR:

Is my money safe there?
SBR rates BoS a D. There is risk at all D rated sportsbooks including BoS. However, despite their new legal problems, we do not anticipate that this book will slip into default.

Will BoS be further downgraded?
We are comfortable with our current rating of D although a slight downgrade from here is a possibility. There will likely be a 'run on the bank' at BoS and they could have some short term problems. We would not expect this to snow ball into a default status but there is a slight chance.

We are trying to respond to as many emails concerning BoS as possible. Hopefully a thread with some of the common questions will help.

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Update: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7AM
SBR further downgrades BetOnSports and recommends players request full withdraws.

[chano]

Question: Has BOS every stiffed an honest player, one who doesnt take advantages of bonuses, etc...

[ilikeyourbonues]

Warnings

We will shut you down if "you" stiffed money from people specially "us" Miami, New York, San Francisco, LA, Orange County.... there will not be businesses for you on our land including cyber gamebling, period. We are in process of taking actions on certain sportsbooks... that being reported by players xxxxs.

Any victims who got their money robbed at these sportsbooks please report it immediately to:

http://www.ic3.gov/ thank you for your cooperations.





UCV
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Pay small chunks rather pay your life, JAIL TIME.

[custer]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never had a problem at BOS. I always bet the limit (and they have some big limits), and am slightly ahead after approx. 4 months of play. They have always paid me the same day.

I withdrew my balance today (mid 4 figures) due to the fact that I felt with this new information there was increased risk, AND because I rarely bet baseball there anyway.

My belief that the people who have been robbed were taking advantage of BOS's lucrative bonuses, which I never did. While what BOS has done to these players is totally wrong (to eliminate the problem they could just lower the bonuses), my impression is that these players were gaming BOS out of the bonuses. It is possible that a player or 2 who wasn't gaming BOS but had similar play styles were also cheated, and that is very sad. But my belief is that you can beat BOS without taking advantage of their bonuses with minimal risk.

[increasedodds]

Custer how can you always bet the limit ($10000 there on baseball) if you keep mid 4 figured there?

-Sean

[Chuck Sims]

chano, SBR downgraded these crooks for doing just that, cheating honest players. BetOnSports/Millennium has lied, robbed, and stiffed honest players for years. Cancelling winning wagers is common practice with them.

I was even losing money at Millennium when they stole my $. Closed my account, confiscated my $, erased all account info. They did it because i left $ in my account and did not make a wager for slightly over a year. Small amount of money but it could of been a large amount.

I later learned it was common practice for them to do this.

[custer]

Custer how can you always bet the limit ($10000 there on baseball) if you keep mid 4 figured there?

-Sean

1) I've never bet a baseball side there.
2) The last few bets I've placed there have been losses.
3) I tried to keep as small a balance there as possible.

But thanks for looking out for me.

[TheGuesser]

Carruthers is a citizen of GB, and Internet gambling is perfectly legal there and in Costa Rica, BOS has a licence in GB. Is there a chance that the Gov't of GB will stand up for their citizen who was doing nothing wrong, and not let the US bully them like we do Antigua and would likely do to Costa Rica?
When the US is messing with GB and a perfectly legal and lucrative business there, maybe this will wake up the British, Australia, and other non 3rd world Countries where I-Gaming exists, to stand up to the US and their attempted placing of backward US morality on the rest of the world.

[Chuck Sims]

The Guesser, First off we need to applaud the fact that David Carruthers is in jail and hopefully for a long time. The man is a criminal.

Now to answer your question. Like it or not the U.S. government has stated publicly that off-shore sportsbooks are illegal and owners will be prosecuted. The owners nationallity has no bearing when committing a crime. If Carruther's defense is he is not an american, therefore he cannot be prosecuted for breaking american law, it will get him convicted.

I have my fingers crossed that the Feds are going to bring up the fact that BOS has stiffed many americans. When the jury hears that, he's baked.

[TheGuesser]

Like someone else said, Big Picture Chuck. This is bigger than individual gripes against the BOS family, which are in many cases legit. If that's what Carruthers was being jailed for, fine. But that's a whole seperate issue.
He is a citizen of a country where this is a perfectly legal activity, practicing it in jurisdictions where it's total legal and in GB's case, licensed. Britain should be aiding their citizen who is in jail, UNLESS there is something more than internet gambling in play here. If it's just I-gaming involved, we should all be rooting for Carruthers to stick it to the US Gov't for their insane stance, and a 1st world Country like England backing thir citizen can only help.

[Brooks]

i must admit im abit nervous about everything that is going on.

i did request a 5000 withdrawal yesterday that was sent to my neteller but it doesnt change how i feel.

rico statutes were designed to charge people when there is very little evidence. the only analogy i can think of is throwing spaghetti against the wall and hoping something sticks.

i wouldnt personally recommend bos to any of my friends because of the way they handled the 50% world cup bonus promotion, however they were the easiest target.

if anyone thinks the recent cases involving bos had anything to do with this they are wrong. this has been in the works for quite some time and artie and thundercat are just being used to fuel the fire on the forums, as an i told you so mantra which i dont approve of.

for BOS players i would take a deep breath for a second. they offer free withdrawal every 7 days and there is no reason they will not keep on paying.

in the corporate world the ceo is very important but i was waiting for the hammer to drop with the BOD but it hasnt happened. there is no reason to believe they will not continue as a going concern and your funds are safe.

with that said i would take advantage of the free payouts and start taking you money out weekly. they allow 5000 per week without fees and i dont see a reason to pay the 3% at this time.

if you still have a giant rollover (12X), i would call them and ask to have your monies returned minus the bonus. tell them you are very nervous and will be back when all this is cleared up, hopefullly by football.

i dont want to be too extreme but if someone makes his living betting on sports it might be time to think about living somewhere else.

if anyone is having the same thoughts as me, send me a pm and we cant figure out something if the senate vote doesnt fall our way.

good luck everyone

[increasedodds]

Custer, you've looked out for me a few times in the past, so I thought I would take a shot!

[Chuck Sims]

The Guesser, Personal gripe? Oh brother. If the Feds catch wind we are actually defending this crook then they may just drop the hammer on all the books. Lets throw this crook to the wolves and like SBR John says, the off-shore gambling industry will be better off.

Smoking dope is perfectly legal in Amsterdam. Businesses are licensed to grow and sell dope. Correct me if I'm wrong, but would'nt a citizen from Amsterdam selling dope in the USA be breaking the law? Of course. Would his government come to his aid? Hell no. Carruthers broke the law by accepting wagers from americans making bets from america. Its illegal for him to do that. He broke the law.

BetOnSports did an incredible stupid thing, they thumbed their nose at the Feds. Big mistake. Those high profile interviews in the NY Times. The full page ads in major newspapers. The BOS roving motor home appearing at NFL games signing up americans to betting accounts was probably the last straw. Reputable books that keep a low profile are safe in my opinion.

[tacomax]

Shares in BetOnSports were suspended today - I'd be very wary holding money here in any form.

[imgv94]

We would not expect this to snow ball into a default status but there is a slight chance.

Thats enough for me right there to Stay away!!

[rm18]

Once football season is in full swing, I would think they would be safer, along with all books because that is the most popular time on the betting calendar from September-Jan.

[SBR_John]

7/18/2006 6:09:00 AM CSTBetOnSports downgraded from D to D-

At this point SBR would recommend players request a full withdraw.

[tacomax]

(this may be of use to others here)

Question: I'm a shill for BoS and I'm running out of positive things to say. How can I spin these events to continue to portray my twisted belief that BoS is still the second coming?

[gotsteam]

The Guesser, Personal gripe? Oh brother. If the Feds catch wind we are actually defending this crook then they may just drop the hammer on all the books. Lets throw this crook to the wolves and like SBR John says, the off-shore gambling industry will be better off.

Smoking dope is perfectly legal in Amsterdam. Businesses are licensed to grow and sell dope. Correct me if I'm wrong, but would'nt a citizen from Amsterdam selling dope in the USA be breaking the law? Of course. Would his government come to his aid? Hell no. Carruthers broke the law by accepting wagers from americans making bets from america. Its illegal for him to do that. He broke the law.

BetOnSports did an incredible stupid thing, they thumbed their nose at the Feds. Big mistake. Those high profile interviews in the NY Times. The full page ads in major newspapers. The BOS roving motor home appearing at NFL games signing up americans to betting accounts was probably the last straw. Reputable books that keep a low profile are safe in my opinion.

Chuck, it seems very clear you do not understand very basic legal principles
Yes, according to the Americans it is illegal, agreed!
BUT one has to apply this principal then to all countries, which reminds me of a case of Yahoo being sued by France's government because a yahoo user was offering Nazi paraphanelia for sale on a yahoo auction or something along those lines
In that case, Yahoo, and the American courts stated that the site, ompany, servers etc are in the USA and as such not subject to French laws.

http://news.com.com/Yahoo+Auctions+immune+from+French+laws/2100-1017_3-250214.html

So if this is the case, i would say almost all sportsbooks wagering servers are hosted outside the USA, clerks, cs staff, etc are also outside the USA, operations, etc are also outside the USA and as such should NOT be subject to US laws.

Fantastic example of American Arrogance & Hypocrisy

And her citizens cannot understand why they dont receive warm welcomes around the globe.....

[Catsfan]

I don't have in money in BOS. (I played there about a month and a half, made a nice withdrawl, that was paid within 30 minutes and then lost my remaining balance). I heard today that they are not allowed to take bets from anyone in the United States right now. Is this correct?

[Bulldog]

Guys,

I usually stay away from all this controversial stuff because I bet in a small book and bet small amounts.
I know some people have strong opinions both ways but I am very interested in knowing what this is all about. In my opinion it can be only 1 of 2 things.

1) US legal system detaining a known criminal for PROVED criminal activity.

2) US legal system trying to bully over international law and punish legally some morally questionable behavior. We all know us courts are pretty bias against gambling activity in general.

Anyway, not that Im defending anyone but Im a strong believer in individual rights and this include proper trials, I dont buy into the "the guy is a crook anyway" excuse if the guy was arbitrarily incarcerated, I dont care where the guy was born.
Id love to hear what you guys think.

[Tchocky]

Today's NY Times has a article on the company and the arrest of Carruthers. Article doesn't really go into detail about the nature of the racketeering charges or about customer complaints.

[Ganchrow]

Today's NY Times has a article on the company and the arrest of Carruthers. Article doesn't really go into detail about the nature of the racketeering charges or about customer complaints.

This is the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/18/te...gewanted=print

I think that the big books all need to get together and hire themselves a top·flight PR fim.

[Illusion]

iGotsportsbook tied to recently indicted BetOnSports owner Gary Kaplan.
Two fraudlent watchdog sites tied to the same group. The fraudlent web sites are ReviewSportsbooks.com and SportsbookAudit.com. BetOnSports and Gary Kaplan were recently indicted for fraud for setting up other bogus watchdog sites that recommended their sportsbooks. iGotsportsbook’s SBR rating is lowered from C- to D.

[SBR_John]

Looks like the DOJ missed a few of their scam web sites.

We asked them nicely for a year to take down those scam sites and they just laughed. Theres a lot less laughing now I rekon.

[Dave]

Fantastic example of American Arrogance & Hypocrisy

And her citizens cannot understand why they dont receive warm welcomes around the globe.....

Am I missing something? Didnt BoS and others run a bus tour INSIDE the US, didnt they take bets on the bus tour and feds joined the bus tour and this is part of the indictment?

[chano]

Are these forums legal? If yes, why ? Are they not promoting sportsbooks? Please explain, this is all new to me. Thanks

[SBR_John]

chano what is illegal is booking bets or assisting in bookmaking. No forum has ever been charged bu the US although the state of Washington has indicated that even information sites are now outlawed under their new state law that was signed on April 1st I believe. Maybe someday they will challenge information sites. However, it was clear from the floor debate that in 1961 the US congress that wrote the law was aimimg only at bookmakers and those that directly helped like clerks, collectors, etc. So far, the US Justice Dept has respected their wishes and only pursued bookmakers.

[Uncle B]

lol

just saw where robberto was calling SBR out, saying you are spreading lies about BoS...


That BoS isn't in any trouble for setting up phony "watchdog" sites that made bogus claims about their company... No, no, no, tow says all that stuff was overlooked.


they were charged with other things, not that stuff.



guess it's a case of "whatever helps get you through the day"..

[gotsteam]

lol

just saw where robberto was calling SBR out, saying you are spreading lies about BoS...


That BoS isn't in any trouble for setting up phony "watchdog" sites that made bogus claims about their company... No, no, no, tow says all that stuff was overlooked.


they were charged with other things, not that stuff.



guess it's a case of "whatever helps get you through the day"..

Nuts, read the DOJ Indictment

This is all about online gambling/wagers over the phone, etc

Has nothing to do with the players being stiffed ( government could not care less about the people )

Has nothing to do with their other sites OGA, or whatever they were

it is all about the online gambling

[Uncle B]

Nuts, read the DOJ Indictment

This is all about online gambling/wagers over the phone, etc

Has nothing to do with the players being stiffed ( government could not care less about the people )

Has nothing to do with their other sites OGA, or whatever they were

it is all about the online gambling

yes, i know that.

i just found it amusing, that this one thing is what roberto decided to focus an entire thread one.


just found the entire post of his to be funny.


"Ha! it has nothing to do with the fraudulant watchdog sites!"



just find that humorous, for some reason...