TradeBetx incomplete rules lead to player losses

[Illusion]

TradeBetx (SBR rating B) incomplete rules lead to player losses
The player bet that a boxer, J. Taylor "will not win the fight". The wording of the wager suggests that the bettor will win the wager if the opposing fighter wins or if there is a draw. The bettor confirmed prior to the match by email, that a draw would indeed result in a winning ticket. TradebetX has voided the winning bet that would have delivered over $2,000.

Exchange Manager: "Again I apologise that you were originally misinformed about our boxing rules on Friday. The rules that you quoted were incomplete and so in a case like this the Exchange determines what is the fairest solution to all our members and in this case, voiding the bets was the most appropriate course of action. I do appreciate that you were misinformed originally and so as a gesture of goodwill I have added a credit of $50 to your account."

Sister trading site, TradeSports (SBR rating B), has also been the subject of recent wagering disputes. SBR will speak with management further and reevaluate the Trade Exchange Network.

[acw]

These Irish cvnts still refuse to learn!

[tacomax]

At least they gave him $50 to make up for the loss of $2000.

[Brooks]

this is a scalpers worst nightmare, to have one bet lose and the other one voided.

it does clearly state in their rules however that in case of a tie all bets are void but i really feel for the guy.

i would have given him a month of trading without fees or something like that if the email clearly stated that he would win if a draw happens

[JoshW]

Brook, that language in their rules was added as a response to this situation. It wasn't on the site when he made the bet. Which makes the situation all the worse as they told him in an email and via the site that if was draw he would win, and then it happens and he doesn't get paid.

I worked this case and was very disappointed I couldn't get the player paid. In my book this is clear cut case in favor of the player and for the exchange to have any credibility, they need to pay the player out of their pocket and move on.

[aggie]

agreed, they need to pay or go to D

[Fair Value]

The rule has been there for the three years that I have been making markets. Don't know what you are complaing about.

10.
BOXING

10.1
INDIVIDUAL FIGHTS

10.1.1
Markets Listed

Boxer A Wins:
Bets FOR: will be settled as winners if Boxer A wins the fight.

Bets AGAINST: will be settled as winners if he does not.

In the case of a Tie, all bets will be void and all monies refunded

[Santo]

Here were the rules in 2004 (last update to WBM):

10.1.1


Markets Listed


* Boxer A Wins:

����� Bets FOR: will be settled as winners if Boxer A wins the fight.

����� Bets AGAINST: will be settled as winners if he does not.

* Specific Number Rounds + Duration: A bet that the fight will end after a specified number of rounds or before this specified number of rounds have been completed.

����� Bets FOR: will be settled as winners if the fight ends after this specified number of rounds.

���� �Bets AGAINST: will be settled as winners if the fight ends before this specified number of rounds has been reached.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040622134804/http://www.tradebetx.com/bet/help/sport_rules_betting_sports.html

I can't find a cached version between then and now unfortunately

[hanco21]

The rule has been there for the three years that I have been making markets. Don't know what you are complaing about.

10.
BOXING

10.1
INDIVIDUAL FIGHTS

10.1.1
Markets Listed

Boxer A Wins:
Bets FOR: will be settled as winners if Boxer A wins the fight.

Bets AGAINST: will be settled as winners if he does not.

In the case of a Tie, all bets will be void and all monies refunded

First I think fair value is a tradesports employee. Anyways thats what I think and we don't need to go there and to explain why. All I have to say is I was Tradesports customer for 5+ plus years and yanked all my funds out of my account because what happened two weeks ago.


If tradebetx is set up like tradesports then tradebetx is 100% wrong. Markets are set up to either short or pick the winner unless stated in the markets description.

Mosley vs Vargas.Mosley to win.


Then if the better shorted and Vargas drawed then the better should be awarded his money bottom line. What makes this worse is that customer service even explained to the bettor that if he shorted and the match drawed he would win.

Tradesports and Tradebetx should definitely be downgraded to a "D" status on their customer service alone.

[tacomax]

First I think fair value is a tradesports employee.

Fair Value admitted in his other post to being a market maker for Tradesports. He also thinks it's perfectly acceptable for Tradesports to void people's bets when they're down to him being unable to enter correct prices.

To be honest, these are the actions of a rogue book rather than an exchange.

[Fair Value]

i admitted to be a marketmaker ON Tradesports which is definitely different then FOR.

I thought a 2 sided discussion would serve everybody's interest on this forum. I guess not.

[tacomax]

I thought a 2 sided discussion would serve everybody's interest on this forum. I guess not.

It serves everyone's interest on this forum when everyone is aware of each other's interests.

But I digress, can we have a 2-sided discussion on why you claim that the boxing rules you quote have been in effect for "three years" when the link by Santo shows that definately not to be the case in 2004. That's 2 years ago, by the way.

[Jenx]

Looks to me like they seeded the market themselves, lost heavily, and are trying to find an excuse to save themselves money.
Very bad. The bettor confirmed his bet and has an email confirming the rules. They should pay him as that is the honourable thing to do, or be downgraded accordingly.... end of story.
Jenx.

[JoshW]

I understand those rules have been listed on Tradesports and has long been the policy. HOWEVER, they weren't listed on Tradebetx, until after this situation.

[JoshW]

Rule on TradeBetX was listed as:

Boxer A Wins:

Bets FOR: will be settled as winners if Boxer A wins the fight.

Bets AGAINST: will be settled as winners if he does not.

--------------

In reading that BEFORE THE FIGHT, he emailed TradebetX to confirm his reading that in Betting AGAINSt he would win the bet if it was a draw.

Response from TradebetX:

Thank you for your query. In the case of the fight ending in a draw then bets against taylor to win will be settled as winners.

--------------------------------

Don't see how anyone can argue he doesn't deserve to be paid given the above details. At least that is how I see it.

[Bill Dozer]

I understand those rules have been listed on Tradesports and has long been the policy. HOWEVER, they weren't listed on Tradebetx, until after this situation.

Yep, Player needs to be paid here. If you can't count on the printed rules or what the clerk tells you before making the bet, why have rules at all?

[isetcap]

Yep, Player needs to be paid here. If you can't count on the printed rules or what the clerk tells you before making the bet, why have rules at all?

Unlike most situations that are presented to this Forum, this one has no gray area and therefore no room for discussion (nice try FV). Player must be paid along with every other player that made the same bet.

[Santo]

Well I do disagree there, there is a gray area..

An exchange is player v player, if they set the trades so that all players win on the draw then the players the other side will lose out, also some contracts would have been entered on tradesports rather than tradebetx, where the rules were clearly stated..

Perhaps a goodwill payment to this one bettor is in order from the exchange, but you can't change the contract settlement imo.

[JoshW]

Santo, I don't disagree. In fact since they had different wording on different sites, a "goodwill" or one time compensation is what is called for. Grading the wagers differently could harm other players who bet under different rules. They have fixed the wording now, and hopefully have their CS clerks more informed. But they need to take care of the player with compensation.

[isetcap]

It's plain as day. Based on the language that the sportsbook provided, EVERYONE who placed a bet on this side of the line at TradeBetX should be paid.