Bet 4 Aces are Liars

marc · 07-04-06, 07:50 PM

That's pretty awful. I don't think they have been getting much in the way of neteller deposits unless they've opened another neteller account. EVerytime I check they have no money.

doc · 07-05-06, 12:31 AM

This place is just shameful. If this does not teach you to stick with SBR for all of your book ratings then nothing will.

yokspot · 07-26-06, 02:59 PM

Bet for aces are liars

Charie, Bet 4 Aces manager, has just, to my face on the phone, accused me of belonging to a "Vietnamese syndicate". He has also told me I live in Vancouver, Canada - a country I have not actually visited. He says that Bill and John know all about this "syndicate".

I thought this Charlie fellow was decent. We had several respectful exchanges right here. Jesus Christ.

I will never play at an untried book again.

I will never listen to any recommendation for an untried book again.

I will tell everyone who I see considering playing at an untried book to not do so.

k68los · 07-26-06, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by yokspot

Charie, Bet 4 Aces manager, has just, to my face on the phone, accused me of belonging to a "Vietnamese syndicate". He has also told me I live in Vancouver, Canada - a country I have not actually visited. He says that Bill and John know all about this "syndicate".

I thought this Charlie fellow was decent. We had several respectful exchanges right here. Jesus Christ.

I will never play at an untried book again.

I will never listen to any recommendation for an untried book again.

I will tell everyone who I see considering playing at an untried book to not do so.

Mr. *******,

I will be more than glad to go into details with you as to the evidences in your case.

First of all, due to these evidences I have recommended that the Company return your deposits when the money becomes available. I believe that under these circumstances I am being fair with my recommendation. With all due respect.

Now, please review the following information:

Search results for: *******

OrgName: TELUS Communications Inc.
OrgID: TACE
Address: #2600 *********
City: ********
StateProv: BC
PostalCode: V5N-4N2
Country: CA

This is the IP through which you came into our system and made your deposit through Neteller.

Your physical address that you gave us indicated that you were located in the UK.

Now, the Mac address that this company's system picked up was the same Mac address as to other player from the same syndicated group.....Nguyen/Tran syndicated group.

My recommendation to the company is that since this happened to please return the deposits made by all of you. I recommended this because it is the best way to say "we want to be fair".

Yes, I am leaving at the end of this month but I have already appointed someone to take care of the payout status for all of you.

My respects to you sir.

tacomax · 07-26-06, 04:08 PM

k68los - my respects to you, sir, but you and B4A are so full of shit that I'd be surprised if it isn't dripping out of your ears.

k68los · 07-26-06, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by tacomax

k68los - my respects to you, sir, but you and B4A are so full of shit that I'd be surprised if it isn't dripping out of your ears.

Taco,

I can't blame you for saying what you just said.........Still, my respects to you.

I am not here to be involved in disrespecting people, just want to make sure that while here things are done fair.

tacomax · 07-26-06, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by k68los

I am not here to be involved in disrespecting people

But you're OK in posting personal details of people with whom you are having disputes? That's pretty disrespectful to me.

Having said that, if you're OK with the releasing of personal details, how about giving the names/addresses/phone numbers of everyone involved in the B4A scam operation. Cuts both ways, right?

Uncle B · 07-26-06, 04:33 PM

what a crock.

yet another expensive lesson , for the tow faithful.

these crooks, and the scumbags that promoted them, are disgraces to the entire industry.

imo, the names of the principles @ bet4aces need to be made public knowledge, so that any new associations between them, and any other shops in the future, can be made public, so as to avoid any future scams.

including the scumbag who posted the players details above.

Yokspot, you've been robbed.. plain and simple.

mt92131 · 07-26-06, 05:01 PM

Charlie,

There is no syndicate or what so ever. If there is one, you didnt say anything at the begining... You wait for us to win big and then trying to find ways to not to pay us. John, your own employeee, know that we are just a bunch of friends that love to bets. John said it was fine. Now you your book owes alot of money and just dont want to pay. Charlie, be honest and fair and pay all of us. There is no syndicate or fraud plays, so pay us. To Roberto from theoffshorewire, you are full of shit. Your books fail, and you take it out on us. To Bill, dont these shitting books get away of it. Pay the players. Thankyou.

Uncle B · 07-26-06, 05:08 PM

and, wtf is up with this asshat 'charlie', and his postings of players personal info?

what a clownshow.. i hope this follows these criminals wherever they wind up. they should never, ever, be trusted again with players monies.

SBR_John · 07-26-06, 05:31 PM

and, wtf is up with this asshat 'charlie', and his postings of players personal info?

Charlie please do not post a player's personal information here.

Sorry guys. We are editing it out as soon as we see it.

yokspot · 07-26-06, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by k68los

I am not here to be involved in disrespecting people, just want to make sure that while here things are done fair.

Give me an absolute f***ing break. "Done fair"? You post my surname in two threads, concoct some line of bullsh*t about "Vietnamese syndicates" I'm apparently involved with, from Canada (a country I've never actually visited), and claim you want to be "fair"??

You are a con artist of the shabbiest order. More fool me, and all the rest of the involved players, for ever getting involved with your scam. We're no less idiots than you are a crook.

k68los · 07-26-06, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by yokspot

Give me an absolute f***ing break. "Done fair"? You post my surname in two threads, concoct some line of bullsh*t about "Vietnamese syndicates" I'm apparently involved with, from Canada (a country I've never actually visited), and claim you want to be "fair"??

You are a con artist of the shabbiest order. More fool me, and all the rest of the involved players, for ever getting involved with your scam. We're no less idiots than you are a crook.

Yokspot,

Please forgive me for posting your private information........The truth is that I am not used to posting and I have done it so far to help everyone on this situation.

Here's what I am going to do.......... Call me tomorrow morning since I have been in contact with Chester from Bet royal...We spoke today and we are going to review all those player's accounts in order to complete negotiations as to how many players will be included into the Bail out proposal.

Please do not think that this will be taken care inmediately, hopefully before I am gone, I will have everything settle with BR.

As to your situation, I am going to have them review (one more time) your information (IP and MAc Addresss). So please call me tomorrow morning.

to everyone here, it is not me who's paying...I don't take anything said here personal but I do want to help as much as I can. This syndicate situation I did not come up with it, it's there, other books have close accounts and won't give deposits back..... I believed that if that was the situation at least return the money players deposited.

All outstanding payments will be taken care at the end of September.

k68los · 07-26-06, 07:50 PM

To all members, I once again apologize for posting someone's personal info. I did not mean to dis-respect anyone here.

I just can blame it on my lack of posting.

My respects to everyone.

mt92131 · 07-26-06, 08:13 PM

Charlie,

There is no syndicate or what so ever. I was invited to your book by your employee, John. The other book that accused me of part of the syndicate is Actionbets. As everyone knows, they are in finincial troubled. Books lose alot of money, book use excuses. Damn those books. When i lose, i never see you go to them and get my money back. Betting with friends is not a syndicate. What if i am part of a syndicate, you should stop me at the beginning, not wating till i win. Charlie, Be fair.... you cant just return the deposit money only. Pay the full amount. John and Adam, where ever you are, speak up for us. We are good people. These book s are accusing us of something we are not. Again, my friends, John and Adam, shout it out. Thankyou.

mt92131 · 07-26-06, 08:20 PM

Charlie,
This is what Bill says:

Sportsbooks, Take responsibility for your clerks!

----------------------------------------------------------

Sportsbooks giving their clerks referral incentives means these guys are opening the door to whomever will send a buck. They encourage the player to bring depositing friends and assure them it's ok that they play from the same place.

A BetonStars Mgr. brought a group to Bet4Aces that is now they called scammers when applying for an "insurance program." The same players were brought to ActionBets by "Adam", an RCS an clerk.

These bonus hunters should know better but that's not the point. Risk management and knowing what's going on in your business is. You can't cry foul after booking action for six months.

I'm confident Actionbets is going to take responsibility after the crash course on risk mgt. Charlie told me that the guys from Bet4Aces were brought in by the book. If you backed the garbage book with insurance money then you don't get to void invited account holders AFTER they go belly-up.

mt92131 · 07-26-06, 08:21 PM

Sportsbooks, Take responsibility for your clerks!

Charlie, please read this:

This is what Bill Dozer posted this morning:

Sportsbooks, Take responsibility for your clerks!

-----------------------------------------------------------

Sportsbooks giving their clerks referral incentives means these guys are opening the door to whomever will send a buck. They encourage the player to bring depositing friends and assure them it's ok that they play from the same place.

A BetonStars Mgr. brought a group to Bet4Aces that is now they called scammers when applying for an "insurance program." The same players were brought to ActionBets by "Adam", an RCS an clerk.

These bonus hunters should know better but that's not the point. Risk management and knowing what's going on in your business is. You can't cry foul after booking action for six months.

I'm confident Actionbets is going to take responsibility after the crash course on risk mgt. Charlie told me that the guys from Bet4Aces were brought in by the book. If you backed the garbage book with insurance money then you don't get to void invited account holders AFTER they go belly-up.

SBR_John · 07-26-06, 10:05 PM

The bad part is this is not about Charlie. He wouldn't rip off a fly if it were up to him. He has worked for SBR in Costa Rica. He is doing his best under impossible circumstances.

This is ALL about Bet4Aces and Roberto. These are the guys that are calculating what they can get away with. Then they manipulate Carlos and convince him that their theft is justified. Carlos wants to do a good job but deep down he knows its just another CR scam and he hates every second of this.

Carlos, write me personally and I will take care of this. SBR will get bailouts for the players that are getting scammed and I'll do my best to help you find a job at an honest shop. Come on Carlos, you are no crook.

TLasVegas702 · 07-27-06, 03:24 AM

John and Adam..are you alive?

help us john and adam...I lived in las vegas and gave you all the referral. Bet4aces and Actionbets are now accusing me as part of the "Vietnamese Syndicate" out of San Diego. Can you believe that? I lived in Las Vegas and to avoid paying my 5 figures $$ balance, they accused me as part of the syndicate. What a good excuse..first was the delay via neteller and as time goes by...Vietnamese syndicate..and then now I hear that same IP and MAC address. Why dont you just tell me that the dog ate all the money and we can't pay.

John and Adam...you got your profit $$ from our deposit. Do the right thing and speak up for us. I hope you are still alive unless Actionbet Smack you.

SBR..please help us. TOW is not hearing us out or responding. Roberto at TOW is just part of this scam. The way i see this is: Syndicate steals bonus money but sportsbook (i.e. bet4aces/actionbet) steals players full balance. Plus, sportsbook got TOW to help stealing players money. TO THE RIGHT THING BET4ACES AND ACTIONBET: PAY ALL PLAYERS AND THE LORD WILL FORGIVE YOU. We pick the right team and you lost. A bet was made and should be honored. We trusted you with our deposit and now, it is time for you to pay. Pay all players..thank you for reading this

(I'm still waiting for john and adam to help us out..my brothers from different mother and different father..)

yokspot · 07-27-06, 05:27 AM

Just to clarify one thing: whether or not this "syndicate" is nothing more than a bunch of bonus-hunting college kids playing from the same campus, I am no part of it. I was not referred to B4As by anyone, or invited / encouraged to play by anyone. I haven't played at ActionBets, though I have an account. The only referral I participated in was to click the TOW link and sign up through it. I did this specifically for the insurance protection. I am not Vietnamese, I don't live in Vancouver and I don't know anyone called "Guyen", LOL.

But anyway, it seems this allegation has now been dropped - Roberto, who never once suggested otherwise, has clarified I am NOT linked to any syndicate of Vietnamese Canadians called "Guyen", alien-abducted to Vancouver to play at Bet4Aces in my sleep then returned to my southern England bed.

Charlie, if you are the "good guy" that John reckons you to be, why are you making spurious allegations like these off the cuff to people who phone you up asking politely about your book's status? If I was working for somebody who told me to lie to my customers and make bogus accusations of fraud, I would refuse. I wouldn't work for those people. You have just six days left in your job, yet you fed me THE most spectacular line of insulting bullshit. You don't qualify as a "good guy" in my book. I hope our paths don't cross again. Good luck with whoever takes you on, and I hope your modus operandi don't cause you to lose too much sleep. Personally, I'd be disgusted with myself if I behaved like this. Takes all sorts, though. Excuse me if I withhold my "respect".

By the way, I have been contacted by Chester from BetRoyal (yeah, that in spite of me being a "Vietnamese Canadian" - go figure, huh?) and am currently looking at the offer on the table and considering my options. I hope the other affected players can get things moving soon.

SBR_John · 07-27-06, 05:56 AM

fyi: All 85 of Yokspot posts at SBR have come from an IP in the UK. Charlie you are welcome to stop by the SBR office and confirm that fact.

Ganchrow · 07-27-06, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by k68los

Now, the Mac address that this company's system picked up was the same Mac address as to other player from the same syndicated group

I'm certainly no network expert, but I'm still pretty sure than MAC addresses are not transmitted over HTTP.

So assuming players were only placing bets through the B4A wesbite without having installed any B4A software or ActiveX plugins, I don't see how B4A could determine their MAC addresses.

Consider me skeptical.

Santo · 07-27-06, 10:03 AM

I believe the outgoing MAC address could be dissected from the incoming TCP/IP packet, if my recollection of the OSI model is correct..

MAC addresses are relatively easily spoofed however... when I was at University I often spoofed my GF's MAC to use the laptop on the campus network

tacomax · 07-27-06, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by ganchrow

Consider me skeptical.

You? Never.

It could be down to two things:

a) B4A don't their arse from their elbow and wouldn't know the difference between a MAC address and a Big Mac with extra fries.

b) They are formulating some bizzare "evidence" to discredit and not have to pay a number of the owed players.

Ganchrow · 07-27-06, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Santo

I believe the outgoing MAC address could be dissected from the incoming TCP/IP packet

I'm not so sure about that as it relates to a multihop Internet scenario. From webopedia, "In IEEE 802 networks, the Data Link Control (DLC) layer of the OSI Reference Model is divided into two sublayers: the Logical Link Control (LLC) layer and the Media Access Control (MAC) layer. The MAC layer interfaces directly with the network medium. Consequently, each different type of network medium requires a different MAC layer."

So the way I'd interpret that (and admittedly my understanding may be flawed) is that each physical hop along a packet's route would transmit only its own MAC address to the next hop. As such while your NIC card's MAC address is visible to your router and your router's MAC is visible to your cable modem, and your cable modem's MAC to your ISP, the only MAC address the book could see would be that corresponding to that last hop before the packet reaches them, which would of course be of zero value in identifying anyone.

I'm not even convinced that if you had two computers on a LAN connected only through a router that either computer could (without tinkering with the router) see the other's MAC address.

But I may certainly be wrong...