Why is everyone so reluctant to admit Tom Brady is the best QB ever?

[agharah1]

Seriously. How many more Super Bowls than Peyton Manning does he have to win!? 3? 5? 10!?

And can you believe it with this Mike Vick for MVP nonsense? Give Vick the comeback player of the year award but he's not on the same level as Tom Brady. How many multi-TD 0 INT games without Randy Moss does he have to have this year before people will realize that? How many times does he have to resurrect Deion Branch's career?

Tom Brady is the greatest NFL QB of all time. PERIOD.

[Dark Horse]

lol

'why is everyone so reluctant to admit that any opinion that differs from mine is simply wrong?'

[rsnnh12]

Coming from a huge Pats fan- Montana still has the edge. If Brady wins another ring and can play 4-5 more yrs of great ball, he will be the best ever, but he's not there yet

[mgcolby]

Coming from a huge Pats fan- Montana still has the edge. If Brady wins another ring and can play 4-5 more yrs of great ball, he will be the best ever, but he's not there yet

One more ring and I think the debate is over. Think about it, he has started 9 seasons including this year (didn't play his rookie year and missed 08) and he has played in 4 SB's, if they make it this year he will have played in 5 SB's in 9 years as a starter.

And to the OP Joe Montana is Brady's only competition for the greatest ever. Manning is not in that debate, the great ones show up in January (and now February) Manning does not.

[Vol_Bengal]

Well... generally speaking over the years look at each team's defense. Manning knew going in he had to score 24-31. Brady feels like scoring 17-21 and taking care of the rock wins...

[LLXC]

Cassel made Brady look almost replaceable...Brady is accurate in a great system.

[mgcolby]

Well... generally speaking over the years look at each team's defense. Manning knew going in he had to score 24-31. Brady feels like scoring 17-21 and taking care of the rock wins...

Actually, in the post season the Colts defense performed better than their season averages more often than not and Manning underperformed.

And this season kind of debunks that theory. Brady has been putting up 28+ (the defense has scored some to give them that 31 ppg average) and has been taking care of the ball. Manning's problem early in his career was that he always went for the home run instead of taking what the defense gave him. In 2006 he improved in two areas, throwing on the run out of the pocket and a willingness to hit his checkdowns to keep the chains moving.

He reverted a bit this season, going for the home run instead of checking down. If he does that again in January they will be one and done again. And once again it will be the defenses fault or all the injuries etc...

[Grits n' Gravy]

he is in the discussion, but to early to annoint him as g.o.a.t. barady and forehead manning are best of their era and i always thought montana was best of the bunch of my childhood. steve young most overlooked.

[rsnnh12]

Cassel made Brady look almost replaceable...Brady is accurate in a great system.

Lol

Brady- 4806 yards, 50 TDs, 8 INTs, 8.3 YPA, 117.2 QB rating
Cassel- 3692 yards, 21 TDs, 11 INTs, 7.2 YPA, 89.4 QB rating

With basically the exact same team

And Cassel is no slouch either... he's tearing it up in KC this year

[Oli]

best of luck this weekend

[Goat Milk]

Cassel made Brady look almost replaceable...Brady is accurate in a great system.

LOL. Yeah Brady i a "product" of a "system" just like Amare was in PHX with Steve Nash

I've been saying that Manning i know where near Brady since i joined this site in multiple threads. anyone that thinks manning is better are probably the same guys that put their money in mannings hands in last years superbowl. don't even mention any of the stats. Manning breaks down under pressure in the playoffs. He is built for the regular season, like Lebron. END OF DISCUSSION

[McBa1n]

I really think Montana and Brady are the only 2 that really matter in the conversation. When it comes to winning big games (Elways is there, also), no one has been better. I am always surprised at how much respect Peyton gets with how few 'big games' he's won and with his skill players around him. I

[Adr3nalin3 Ru5h]

yea i must admit brady will be the greatest QB ever.... and plus he covers the spreads

[brahmabull117]

the great ones show up in January (and now February) Manning does not.

you do realize Peyton has a better QB rating in the playoffs than Brady does right??


the majority of Brady's superbowl rings were won by defense and special teams

[Sildenafil]

the majority of Brady's superbowl rings were won by defense and special teams

Agreed


We would not be having this conversation if it wasn't for Adam Vinatieri...

[Mr Handicapable]

Watching highlights this weekend...Brady had 80+ yds passing and they already had 31 on Buffalo! He had 147 yds on Green Bay and they put up 31! Manning (just like Marino) has to throw for 300 just for the Colts to have a chance normally! This week was the 1st time since 2006 that the Colts outrushed Mannings passing yards! I would probably take Brady but we're not comparing apples to apples here either!
Nobody but Elway & Marino have ever carried a team like Manning carries the Colts in my lifetime!

[rsnnh12]

you do realize Peyton has a better QB rating in the playoffs than Brady does right??


the majority of Brady's superbowl rings were won by defense and special teams

Lol that's only because of his 2 games against the Broncos, where they bent over for him. He has more INTs than TDs in his other playoff games. How did Peyton play in his Super Bowl run? 3 TDs and 7 INTs? Something like that. Peyton truly did ride his D and Vinatieri to his lone SB win.

Peyton=Lebron
Brady=Kobe

[BRAVES1985]

raiders had the pats beat on that fumble . that was a brutal call

[mgcolby]

you do realize Peyton has a better QB rating in the playoffs than Brady does right??


the majority of Brady's superbowl rings were won by defense and special teams

Well that settles it then 87.3 against 83.5 is a whopping difference. And the two games against the terrible Broncos defense in the Dome didn't pad that at all. How many one and dones has he had and how many times in those games did the Colts offense under perform in comparison to their regular season production and then look at the defense and do the same. The only reason Manning won his Superbowl was because of his defense. The guy threw 3 TD passes and 7 picks in his only Superbowl win. He did everything he could to lose to the Ravens and his defense held. And lets not get into his offensive weapons. Wayne, Harrison Clark, Stokely etc... Until Moss, Brady had Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, David Pattent, Wiggins, Antwoin Smith etc.... And played the majority of his playoff games outside in the elements. Including Superbowls he has played 4 games indoors compared to 9 indoor games for Peyton. In warm weather / dome including the SB's it is 5 for Brady vs 14 for Peyton.

14-4 vs 9-9. But here is a link that breaks it down better than I could.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3529_Debate_is_over:_Brady_the_best_in_all_seasons.html

And one from about 5 years ago, that breaks down Manning's performance and the Colts overall.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/Archive_261_Brady_vs._Manning:_Complete_&_Unabridged,_Vol._II.html

Here is an excerpt from the second link.

POSTSEASON PERFORMANCES
Brady’s superiority over Manning is built upon the stony, unyielding foundation of each player’s postseason performances. Quite simply, Manning, as we have long noted, is the Picasso of Choke Artists. Brady, meanwhile, has already proven to be one of the great clutch players in postseason history, a truly transcendent performer who reserves his greatest games for the biggest moments. He has the Super Bowl rings, Super Bowl records and Super Bowl MVP awards to prove it.

For all of Manning’s brilliant regular-season fireworks in recent years, he has simply failed to live up to expectations in the postseason – every single year that he’s been there. That’s right. Every year. Don’t believe us? Come, take a drive down Manning’s postseason memory lane. But roll up the windows and lock the doors. It’s an ugly neighborhood.

1999 – In Manning’s second year in the league he led the Colts to a 13-3 record and an AFC East title while averaging 26.4 PPG in the regular season. In Indy’s first playoff game the Colts hosted wildcard-game winner Tennessee. The Indy defense played well, surrendering just 19 points to a solid offense that averaged 24.5 points per game. But Manning, at home in the dome, put just 16 points on the board, the team’s third lowest output of the season, while completing just 19 of 43 passes for 227 yards and zero touchdowns. Manning’s 60.9 passer rating was his lowest of the entire season. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 19-16.

2000 – The Colts went 10-6 behind Manning’s 33 touchdown passes and an offense that averaged 26.8 PPG in the regular season. Indy went to Miami in the wildcard round and its defense played very well, intercepting Jay Fiedler three times and surrendering just 23 points in a game decided in overtime. But Manning struggled against the Dolphins and, in a game that lasted more than 70 minutes, was a non-factor. He completed barely 50 percent of his passes (17 for 32) for just 194 yards and a touchdown. The Colts generated 11 points off Fiedler’s interceptions but put a total of just 17 on the board, 10 points fewer than their regular-season average. It was Indy’s second lowest scoring output of the season. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 23-17, in overtime.

2002 – The Colts went 10-6 and drew a gimme in the wildcard round: a 9-7 Jets team with a paper-thin defense that surrendered 336 points that year (Indy boasted the better D, surrendering 313 points). Manning played the single worst statistical game of his entire career (14 for 31, 137 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs and a career-low 31.2 passer rating) and failed to put a single point on the board. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 41-0.

2003 – The Colts went 12-4 in the regular season and scored 27.9 PPG. Manning kept it going in Indy’s first two playoff games and was spectacular leading 41-10 and 38-31 victories over Denver and Kansas City. But Manning, facing foul weather and a good defense, returned to his historic postseason form in the AFC title game against New England. Indy’s D again played well under postseason pressure, stifling the Patriots in the red zone and forcing them to settle for five field goals. But Manning tossed four interceptions and posted the third lowest passer rating of his entire career (35.5). Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 24-14.

2004 – The Colts again went 12-4 in the regular season, this time scoring 522 points (32.6 PPG) and entering the playoffs a seemingly unstoppable offensive juggernaut with the fifth-highest scoring offense in NFL history. Manning, of course, set numerous regular season records. Most notably, he tossed 49 touchdown passes while shattering the single-season passer rating record, with a mark of 121.1. It all took a familiar turn for the worse in the playoffs. In a divisional game at New England, the Colts mustered just 3 points – their lowest offensive output since the 2002 playoff loss to the Jets. Once again, Manning played his very worst game of the season in the playoffs, completing 27 of 42 passes for 238 yards with 0 TDs and 1 INT and a passer rating of 69.3, his lowest of the year. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 20-3.


Bottom line he underperfoms in the playoffs. But he has a better QB rating. Is that the last thing the Peyton apologists have left to cling to?

Manning is a great QB, a great regular season QB. Postseason not so much.

[Prod7gy]

matt cassell proved its the system lol

[kcDdegenerate]

Ever?

[rsnnh12]

matt cassell proved its the system lol

See post #9

[Jive]

I like Tom Brady. Great player and by all accounts a tremendous guy, and I can't help but root for low round draft picks who become elite in their sport. But let's not forget without screwy officials (in two of NE SB playoff runs) and screwy rules (the infamous tuck game), NE would be a major underachieving playoff team, much along the same line as how many of you characterize Manning & the Colts.

I am constantly amazed at how short memories are around here, and given that we gamble that is probably a good thing. NE has won 3 Superbowls with Brady, but the fact is they should have only even been in one of them. The whole renewed emphasis on illegal contact came about because the Patriots mugged the Colts in the playoffs and got away with murder.

[Kindred]

The greatest QB ever led his team undefeated into the super bowl and lost to the Wild Card Giants..didn't think the greatest ever would choke like that..

Actually I did after they almost choked away their perfect season in the Meadow Lands..Brady is a biatch not the best ever

[antifoil]

wow cassel did that good with the patriots. that helps the case its the system.


we will never know if brady is the best because espn and its new england bias cant be trusted to give us a non bias opinion

[rsnnh12]

wow cassel did that good with the patriots. that helps the case its the system.


we will never know if brady is the best because espn and its new england bias cant be trusted to give us a non bias opinion

So all of your opinions are based on what ESPN tells you?? if you actually watched the players, you would know Brady is definitely a top 5 QB all time, and most likely top 2.

And Cassel had 1000 fewer yards, 28 fewer TDs, and a QB rating nearly 30 points lower than Brady had with the same team. Undefeated regular season and SB appearance vs 11-5 and no playoffs... how is it the system again?

[bobbyk1133]

2 words.

Peyton.

Manning.

[antifoil]

well clearly cassel isnt as good as brady so his numbers wouldnt be as high. those cassel numbers are amazing for a guy that hasnt played live competition since high school. it clearly indicates the system and coaching is responsible.

[aluvium]

Well Cassel is really sucking this year in KC right? Oh wait he has that team 10-5 so it seems he is actually a pretty solid QB.

I love Brady but I think Montana is ahead of him until he wins #4. The tuck rule was called just like the rule was written, they did change it later but it was the rule at the time, were they supposed to ignore the rulebook? As for punishing the Indy receivers they decided to play physical with them and owned them, then after the year Polian cried to the league to get rules changed like he had a million times. To say they wouldn't have had a championship otherwise is silly as they beat the Colts in '03 and '04. People want to whine that they don't deserve the championships or Brady wouldn't have won without a good defense/Vinatieri its true he wouldn't have, but neither would any team ever. But the fact is he came up big every single time to win them the game, not just once but on many occasions, and if winning doesn't make you the best then I dont know what does.

[Andy117]

Lol

Brady- 4806 yards, 50 TDs, 8 INTs, 8.3 YPA, 117.2 QB rating
Cassel- 3692 yards, 21 TDs, 11 INTs, 7.2 YPA, 89.4 QB rating

With basically the exact same team

And Cassel is no slouch either... he's tearing it up in KC this year

That year is a statistical outlier for Brady, he's never put up a year close to that one.

[antifoil]

cassel is three years removed from starting for the first time since high school. of course he is going to be better. he was really bad last year and improved with the help of jamal charles when last year they had washed up larry johnson. this is further evidence that cassel was a product of the system and coaching like brady.

[rsnnh12]

That year is a statistical outlier for Brady, he's never put up a year close to that one.

.... that's because Brady never had weapons like he did in 07. Cassel came in and put up MUCH weaker stats (as expected) with, for all intents and purposes, the exact same team.

[rsnnh12]

cassel is three years removed from starting for the first time since high school. of course he is going to be better. he was really bad last year and improved with the help of jamal charles when last year they had washed up larry johnson. this is further evidence that cassel was a product of the system and coaching like brady.

Or, Cassel was familiar with the personnel/playbook/etc with the Pats (was with them for 3 years before starting), and when he went to the Chiefs, he had to get used to a whole new setup... do you think Cassel would have done as well with the Pats system if he had to start his first year in it? Of course not. Why would you expect the same for the Chiefs then?

Every QB is dependent on being in the right system for them, but it is fairly obvious that the best QBs will shine despite injuries to their team, the weather conditions, the high-pressure situations, etc. And Brady does all of those at the highest level

[antifoil]

the chief brought in charlie weis so it is a different offense than last year therefore he learned a new offense and did really well so it must be the addition years in the league plus the SYSTEM he is in that caused him to be better with the addition of the top 10 running back jamal charles

[aluvium]

cassel is three years removed from starting for the first time since high school. of course he is going to be better. he was really bad last year and improved with the help of jamal charles when last year they had washed up larry johnson. this is further evidence that cassel was a product of the system and coaching like brady.

Yeah every QB who starts 3 years in NFL become a really good QB in the NFL.

This year he has 27TDs 5INTs 98.8rtg clearly the Pats system that went 16-0 the year before made him really good. Why if the Pats system is so easy for QBs to be great doesn't every team do the same thing since its clearly so easy?