Such a defensive liability.
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+/- means nothing.Comment -
Huh? You have to outscore your opponent to win.Originally posted by BernardMadoff
Two open looks from three right after Mavs took lead were a huge momentum swing. This came with Peja in game. I feel like every time he has stepped on floor in first 3 games, Heat have gone on offensive run. Maybe i am mistaken. I wouldnt be suprised if he didnt get any playing time in Game 4.Comment -
He's -21 in under 26 minutes. Last two games he was -7 in 5 minutes (in a 2-point win) and -11 in 6 minutes (in a two-point loss). Obviously, that's huge. I don't think he'll see the court tomorrow.Comment -
Should change his name to Peja StoySuckavich. He looks 60 years old out there. Slow as hell.Comment -
Originally posted by BernardMadoff
No offense, but you are wrong.
While I do believe the +/- is way overrated, there is some meaning to it.
Perfect example: remove Nowitzki & put Peja in Game 3 in 1 quarter & 3 quarter.
Score: Miami 18-5
That means nothing?
Please explain.Comment -
Means nothing because one guy doesn't guard all five guys on the opposing team. Wade's +/- was -1 in Game 3, think he should see less time on the floor? In Game 2 against the Bulls, the game in which Haslem was huge for Miami, Haslem's +/- was -11. Means nothing really a guy can play 25 minutes and score no points and basically contribute nothing and have a +/- of +20 if his team just happens to outscore the other team by that amount when he's on the floor.Originally posted by WojoComment -
Thanks for your reply, but you are not considering what the lineup is on the floor. Let's see, Dallas 4 starters +Peja vs pretty much Miami 5 starters. Duh!Originally posted by BernardMadoff
As I stated in my post, it is way overrated. BUT, if you look at the entire line-up for each team, then it does mean something.
You are providing a classic newbie response in that "if a player scores no points" factor. You are totally eliminating the value of defense.
Again, the +/- is overrated, but it definitely has value. Look at Dirk's +/- numbers if you don't believe what I am saying.
If Peja is so good, why don't they play him more? Why were Mahinmi's numbers -5?Comment -
Peja should only be on the court in off. sets late in quarters. Its a mismatch every time hes forced to play D.Comment -
Your statement sounds contradictory. Noob respnse? I'm eliminating defense? Once again one player doesnt guard all five on the opposing team. What does it say about a player like Carlos Arroyo, who IMO doesnt belong in the NBA, has a +/- of +25 with 4 pts and 2 assists whom also I know to be a defensive liability. Why no comment on my Haslem and Wade statement , who without Haslem in that game they more than likely lose. People who actually play basketball know its a stat that's largely irrelavant. Basketball is a team game, such a stat would only have relavance in a game of one on one.Originally posted by WojoComment -
[quote=BernardMadoff;10319747In Game 2 against the Bulls, the game in which Haslem was huge for Miami, Haslem's +/- was -11. [/quote]
This is why it is not an accurate stat to follow (AS I HAVE STATED!).
Haslem's contribution in that game was WAY overrated.
Again, AS I STATED, you have to look at the lineup on offense and defense when the player was in. Peja was against first team Miami players. Arroyo was not. HUGE difference.
Figure it out. Don't waste your time, or mine, on any more ridiculous arguments about this stat.Comment -
You're comical, first all I was referring to Arroyo in a regular season blowout over the Wolves this season not in the playoffs. So Wade's -1 +/- in Game 3 according to you should be not be a good thing based on your numerous input on this matter. You still haven't made sense of your stance on this issue. Lineups on the floor means nothing. The only way +/- would have even a slight bit of relavance is if was based on head-to-head in a game, meaning say a player scores 10 points in a game and the person(s) he was guarding in the game scores 8 leaving him with a +/- of +2. It would give it a little relavance then but still its a team game and players are running off screens and what not so it would still not be an exact to look upon.Originally posted by Wojo
Peja could have had the same +/- in game 3 with no points scored by the man he was guarding so its really a dumb stat.Comment -
If Peja doesn't shoot 60% he is a liability. He had some good games vs Portland and LA but has been struggling bad of late. The Lakers would of beat Dallas if Peja played this bad but then again they would of benched him.Comment -
Terrible series for Peja to be getting minutes. Just bad matchup problems. He won't get many open looks and is a defensive liability. I hope they keep him on the bench.Comment -
They need to put Caron Butner in the game!!!!!!!!!Comment -
But it also takes into affect any points that Peja scored.Originally posted by BernardMadoff
I agree that many times it is a dumb stat and is overused with non-conclusive, or even wrong, statements.
I do believe it has value in a line-up perspective. The stat provides insight to how a team does when a certain line-up is on the court. But it doesn't give insight to what opposing players were out there.
In is not a completely useless statistic, but is one I don't hold great value in on an individual player basis.Comment -
...the synergy of the team is directly affected by the players on the floor so this is a valid stat, while not the most important - it has meaning. Read Basketball on Paper, if you want learn something more meaningful.Comment -
Fair enough.Originally posted by WojoComment -
Peja just doesn't match up well with the Heat, because he will pretty much be forced to guard LBJ or Wade. IN past series you could just stick him on the opposing teams weakest offensive player (Sefelosha, Cook, Batum, etc.).
He is a knock down shooter and has been huge for the Mavs up until the finals. But I just don't think they can play him on the court when both LBJ and Wade are playing.Comment
