Spurs/Suns lingering thoughts

[babaoriley]

Just got back from the game and a few thoughts stuck in my head. First, it's worth noting that I placed 4 1Q wagers tonight and the only dog I took was Phoenix. I also had the Pho ML (value) parlayed with Houston and Detroit ML's @ +500, give or take. I hated the opening line and worse, I hated that it didn't budge before I left for the game. I'm on record in another thread here saying I was waiting on -4. Well, it didn't come (at least before 7PM when we left for drinks). So, I went 3-2 with both losses coming from the SA game (1Q and Pho ML in that parlay).

That said:
-Never seen the AT&T Center (typically a mild bunch) get so wound up as they did after Bell shoved Parker. I was 13 rows back, center court and it looked vicious. Then again, at one point in the 4th quarter, Parker tripped himself (on Shaq's 5th foul) so it all evened out.

-Can't believe that SA shot so poorly and still won.

-As badly as SA played, Phoenix played worse. This was an elimination game and they seemed like they were on cruise control. I don't know if D'Antoni is to blame for lackadaisical play or if the blame should be shared, but there was not one single moment where I felt worried about Phoenix going on a run due to emotions. They went on one in the 3rd because the Spurs simply couldn't shoot, but really I've never seen such a talented team play with such little emotion. I'm interested to see what you guys thought in terms of how the Suns came across on TV. In person, the body language/actions seemed to be "going through the motions"...

-I agree with a comment made by who I consider to be a highly regarded Suns fan (Dark Horse) about the Marion for Shaq deal. In a nutshell, DH argued that the move was a gamble, but worth the risk because of the nearly limitless ceiling of a Shaq/Amare/Nash/Diaw/Barbosa/Bell/Hill core. However, I think I speak for most Spurs fans when saying that it was a relief to not see Marion's long arms out there. I think Marion wins this series for the Suns. I'm dead serious.

-Game 1 decided this series. Period. Flopping, zebras both played a huge part but I think it's high time that D'Antoni face some serious fire. My critique of his playoff coaching could be a 10,000 word essay so I'll save it for later.

-Loudest I've ever heard a Spurs home game, dating back to the Alamo Dome.

[SBR Lou]

How about the play prior to Parker tripping himself, where Duncan did the same..? That's how the Spurs play with the game on the line, that's pretty sad and nothing to hang ones hat on. I'm amazed Spurs fans aren't embarrassed by their antics.

[babaoriley]

How about the play prior to Parker tripping himself, where Duncan did the same..? That's how the Spurs play with the game on the line, that's pretty sad and nothing to hang ones hat on. I'm amazed Spurs fans aren't embarrassed by their antics.

Look, I hate some of the flopping but that Bell foul was flagrant, period and wasn't called. It was a cheap hip-check and in real speed, it looked extremely dangerous. Also, immediately after the Parker trip, Shaq tripped himself on a layup (hoping the foul was on Duncan---ended up getting wrongly called on Thomas) and barely missed a 3-point play. There are 4 teams that are really taking this flopping thing to a whole new level (Spurs, Mavs, Pistons, Cavs) and sadly, the Spurs are the most visible and unlikeable. I hate 'em some days. But that doesn't even begin to explain the lack of emotion and urgency that the Suns displayed. Blame it on everyone except the Suns if you want, but that was a piss-poor effort from too good a team to just roll over like that.

[The Prick]

agree with you as usual, Baba O, but the replay of Parker tripping had alot to do with Shaq stepping in late....Duncan replay looked alot like he tripped himself. Crazy, if the game cost ya then shouldn't you be madder at the Suns for folding up like a piece of tissue paper in a Japanese kids hands? 4 turnovers in their last five possesions (that mattered)and you sound like the game was stolen from them

[Dark Horse]

The Spurs aren't warriors. They have no pride. They will carry their shame with them through life. Integrity and honor are worth more than a golden ball. On the surface they will smile, but deep down they will never forget their cheating ways. That is their punishment. When everybody has forgotten who won what and when, they will still remember their own shame. It will haunt them until the moment of death.

You may laugh at this baba, but I speak of the warrior code. And I know you appreciate that code as well. Sports is all about that code. What a sad comment on society if grown up men think they have to cheat in order to attain the admiration that comes with being champions. What an example to set for the children.

[Deke101]

Ginobli flops so bad when he gets fouled. Down the stretch when he would get the inbound, he would wait for when the obvious foul was coming, and he would throw his arms up in the air and fall over like omg i just got tackled by two D ends. Get real ginobli, your a baby.

Nash was definitely going through the motions. Shaq as well. They aren't young and excited to play anymore, its just work now. Stoudemire cares the most because he is young.

[The_Kid]

Ginobli flops so bad when he gets fouled. Down the stretch when he would get the inbound, he would wait for when the obvious foul was coming, and he would throw his arms up in the air and fall over like omg i just got tackled by two D ends. Get real ginobli, your a baby.

You are right Deke. I was watching the replay of Raja Bell's "clothesline" of Ginobili. Give me a break. There was an article on Yahoo that claimed that that was one of the hardest fouls during the playoffs so far. It irritates me so much that Ginobili flops on practically every call. Spurs fans need to get over booing every time someone hits Ginobili. He's a flopper and plays like a little girl most of the time.

[Dark Horse]

Ginobili is the worst thing that has ever happened to American sports. Period.

[babaoriley]

You are right Deke. I was watching the replay of Raja Bell's "clothesline" of Ginobili. Give me a break. There was an article on Yahoo that claimed that that was one of the hardest fouls during the playoffs so far. It irritates me so much that Ginobili flops on practically every call. Spurs fans need to get over booing every time someone hits Ginobili. He's a flopper and plays like a little girl most of the time.

I know absolutely zero Spurs fans that would say that they don;t chuckle every time Manu pulls his histrionics. Look, it's part of his game and it's annoying as phuck, even for a Spurs fan. That said, with the exception of last night, that guy tore apart the Suns D. They had nobody who could guard him. New Orleans has nobody that can guard him. I hate the way he flails about but I try not to let it completely obscure my view of him. I mean, he's a fantastic talent, but I agree that he overdoes the flopping.

[babaoriley]

agree with you as usual, Baba O, but the replay of Parker tripping had alot to do with Shaq stepping in late....Duncan replay looked alot like he tripped himself. Crazy, if the game cost ya then shouldn't you be madder at the Suns for folding up like a piece of tissue paper in a Japanese kids hands? 4 turnovers in their last five possesions (that mattered)and you sound like the game was stolen from them

Exactly. I've heard so much about this series (and game) being decided by the officiating, the poor coaching of D'Antoni, and of course the callow actions of the cheating Spurs and the poor gamesmanship of Popovich in employing the Hack-a-Shaq. Heaven forbid we point a long finger at the actual players that were responsible for that stinkbomb last night.

Again, in game 1, the Spurs had 70 points in the paint. 70!

They continued running layup drills on Phoenix for two more games before Phoenix got properly motivated for game 4. By then, it was simply too little too late. Game 5 was a horribly played game by both teams. The Spurs won despite shooting 39% from the field, thanks in large part to an equally poor shooting night from Phoenix and an intensity that never fully materialized. Phoning it in never looked so bad:

31-73 from the field (42%)
5-19 from downtown (26%)
20-37 from the stripe (54%)

Nash's line:
4-16 from the field (1-6 from downtown) for 11 points, 3 assists and 5 turnovers

Amare and Shaq were a combined 8-22 from the field.

Their big 3 a combined 12-36 (33%) from the field, 39 points, 4 assists, 9 turnovers, 14 fouls. And yet, I see very little criticism of the Suns players. Get real.

[The_Kid]

I know absolutely zero Spurs fans that would say that they don;t chuckle every time Manu pulls his histrionics. Look, it's part of his game and it's annoying as phuck, even for a Spurs fan. That said, with the exception of last night, that guy tore apart the Suns D. They had nobody who could guard him. New Orleans has nobody that can guard him. I hate the way he flails about but I try not to let it completely obscure my view of him. I mean, he's a fantastic talent, but I agree that he overdoes the flopping.

You are right baba. He is a good player, but his antics are just unbelievable. I admit that he is a great player, but I just can't stand his flopping. If he wants to act, he should go to Hollywood.

[babaoriley]

You are right baba. He is a good player, but his antics are just unbelievable. I admit that he is a great player, but I just can't stand his flopping. If he wants to act, he should go to Hollywood.

Agreed. As a Spurs fan, his flopping pisses ME off. I hate it. The officials and the League need to do something and I believe they will. I just don't know how effective it will be.

[SBR Lou]

agree with you as usual, Baba O, but the replay of Parker tripping had alot to do with Shaq stepping in late....Duncan replay looked alot like he tripped himself. Crazy, if the game cost ya then shouldn't you be madder at the Suns for folding up like a piece of tissue paper in a Japanese kids hands? 4 turnovers in their last five possesions (that mattered)and you sound like the game was stolen from them

The 1st game (flop city) was stolen from them. I don't know that even the biggest SA homers disagree w/ that. This game was just humorous in the fact that with the game winding down, Duncan and Parker resort to tripping themselves, that's how Spurs play with the game on the line.

[Dark Horse]

The Suns were 1-1 with Diaw starting, which was the move I had long suggested (back in that Suns development thread). Diaw is much better when he starts, plus the Spurs have no answer for him. Spurs fans even talk of the Tri Tower attack (Amare, Shaq, Diaw), and with considerable respect. Isn't it amazing that they clearly see and fear that, while D'Antoni is only forced into it because of a Hill injury?

The Suns did play poorly in the final minutes of game 1 and 5. No doubt about it. But it wasn't all their fault. Nash never touched that ball, as it went out of bounds off Bowen. And Nash was clearly pulled from behind by his shoulder, by Parker, which allowed Horry to steal the ball from him. The Spurs have had a free pass for years for holding Nash from behind or slapping his arms from behind. Especially Bowen is a master at that, with his hands wildly flapping like a dodo bird before its first flight. It often results in missed shots or turnovers. Zebras usually don't see it, because their eye is on the ball and the developing play.


(NBA decided to look the other way after the latest incident with players leaving the bench; the same type of incident that cost the Suns the series last year.)

[babaoriley]

The Suns were 1-1 with Diaw starting, which was the move I had long suggested (back in that Suns development thread). Diaw is much better when he starts, plus the Spurs have no answer for him. Spurs fans even talk of the Tri Tower attack (Amare, Shaq, Diaw), and with considerable respect. Isn't it amazing that they clearly see and fear that, while D'Antoni is only forced into it because of a Hill injury?

The Suns did play poorly in the final minutes of game 1 and 5. No doubt about it. But it wasn't all their fault. Nash never touched that ball, as it went out of bounds off Bowen. And Nash was clearly pulled from behind by his shoulder, by Parker, which allowed Horry to steal the ball from him. The Spurs have had a free pass for years for holding Nash from behind or slapping his arms from behind. Especially Bowen is a master at that, with his hands wildly flapping like a dodo bird before its first flight. It often results in missed shots or turnovers. Zebras usually don't see it, because their eye is on the ball and the developing play.


(NBA decided to look the other way after the latest incident with players leaving the bench; the same type of incident that cost the Suns the series last year.)

A) Complete agreement with Diaw. He was the x-factor and until game 4, he was treated like the Suns version of Brent Barry.

B) I had a fantastic view of that Nash inbounds play. From my point of view, it definitely went off Nash. I'll admit that Parker and Duncan tripped themselves in an effort to draw the fouls, but that pass went off Nash. He didn't even protest the call.

C) It sucks because I actually like the Phoenix group. I just think that they were poorly coached and poorly motivated, and as a result, played poorly. I understand the Spurs hatred, and as I've said before in other threads, I'm happy that they at least have gotten to the point where they get in people's heads, instead of being too soft and squeaky clean. It's not bad being the enemy.

[Thor4140]

I was watching the game with Anderson Varejao and he said the Gnobbli flopping is just to much.

[MyKickerHurts]

Everything said above is the reason why this sport is and these playoffs are weak. How can the zebras miss so many fouls and call so many non fouls. How can the spurs get away with all the flopping they look like fish out of water with all the flopping going on. On another not how come Dioww backed ginobli in the paint every pssesion and rarely drove to the basket, he would for sure have got alot of whistles oh i forgot what good would that have done the suns cant shoot free throws. Hello they are called FREE throws it wasnt the shaq trade that killed the suns or the coach, it was the poor FREE throw shooting had the suns made more of their free throws they would have had a better shoot at winning, any team that shaq is on needs a free throw coach, he drags the whole teams shooting average down