Knicks can win it all this year...

hawley · 12-11-12, 03:19 AM

How many times has Melo made it out of the first round?

Sunde91 · 12-11-12, 03:22 AM

because they shoot their wad and fade hard same NBA script written for the millionth time over

knicks not to win east -5000

hawley · 12-11-12, 03:24 AM

you make some good points but between Kidd, Wallace and STAT you have 3 important pieces that are either old as fuk or injury prone and capable of falling apart at any time (if Amare ever returns)

Who knows what Amare will actually contribute when he returns. With Felton running pick and rolls I think he will be a lot better than last season.

sando · 12-11-12, 03:25 AM

Originally posted by Sunde91

because they shoot their wad and fade hard same NBA script written for the millionth time over

knicks not to win east -5000

Knicks yes to win East +700

Originally posted by hawley

you make some good points but between Kidd, Wallace and STAT you have 3 important pieces that are either old as fuk or injury prone and capable of falling apart at any time (if Amare ever returns)

Who knows what Amare will actually contribute when he returns. With Felton running pick and rolls I think he will be a lot better than last season.

Yeah the whole scenario is one big massive what if mate, however I do believe it is within the realms of possibility this year...

Goat Milk · 12-11-12, 03:25 AM

No stoudemire in starting lineup = no championship.

jason kidd will not stop dwayne wade in a 7 game series. to put your body through that on the defensive end. we all saw how that went when d wade destroyed dallas and j kidd for 30 ppg over 6 games in 2011 en route to losing the title. and they don't have another legit 2 guard defender. smith can't defend elite players.

only difference was they had other guys to help kidd ever now and then. stevenson, marion at times, terry is a really good defender...

Felton overrated imo. Selfish player. Thinks he's almost on the same level as Carmello.

But yeah, they do have a shot if Stoudemire can get back in the lineup. oh yeah, and shumpert would be huge.

Bbr · 12-11-12, 03:26 AM

Knicks were horrible last year. I dont think there's been enough significant changes to warrant them winning it all. Felton is all for himself, i wouldnt rate the guy so highly.

Play offs team for sure but.....we all know play offs are a whole different agenda.

I cant see anyone knocking Miami heat off, besides OKC.

aussieH · 12-11-12, 03:27 AM

I was actually just looking at the futures. Agree the Knicks are great value and you should be able to hedge out later on. I am putting 4 units on them now.

Who do you like for the divisions? Can the lakers come back and can the spurs beat out the grizzlies. Grizz have played 4 less games and also more at home

sando · 12-11-12, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

No stoudemire in starting lineup = no championship.

jason kidd will not stop dwayne wade in a 7 game series. to put your body through that on the defensive end. we all saw how that went when d wade destroyed dallas and j kidd for 30 ppg over 6 games in 2011 en route to losing the title. and they don't have another legit 2 guard defender. smith can't defend elite players.

only difference was they had other guys to help kidd ever now and then. stevenson, marion at times, terry is a really good defender...

Felton overrated imo. Selfish player. Thinks he's almost on the same level as Carmello.

But yeah, they do have a shot if Stoudemire can get back in the lineup. oh yeah, and shumpert would be huge.

Are you saying that Schumpert will guard Lebron then? Surely he is not big/strong enough to guard Lebron? However put him on D-Wade and he could completely shut him down with his Gary the Glove type intensity.

Originally posted by Bbr

Knicks were horrible last year. I dont think there's been enough significant changes to warrant them winning it all. Felton is all for himself, i wouldnt rate the guy so highly.

Play offs team for sure but.....we all know play offs are a whole different agenda.

I cant see anyone knocking Miami heat off, besides OKC.

Doc please, Miami will get destroyed by whatever team comes out of the West this year. It will take war after war to get out of the West, whereas the East will be a joke until probably the conference finals. So assuminmg Miami comes out of the East they will be facing a battle hardened team that probably had to fight through EVERY round to get to the NBA finals.

hawley · 12-11-12, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by sando

Doc please, Miami will get destroyed by whatever team comes out of the West this year. It will take war after war to get out of the West, whereas the East will be a joke until probably the conference finals. So assuminmg Miami comes out of the East they will be facing a battle hardened team that probably had to fight through EVERY round.

Say what?!

What changes do you see in OKC from last season that would see them destroy Miami? The progression in KD and Westbrook sufficient?

sando · 12-11-12, 03:36 AM

Originally posted by aussieH

I was actually just looking at the futures. Agree the Knicks are great value and you should be able to hedge out later on. I am putting 4 units on them now.

Who do you like for the divisions? Can the lakers come back and can the spurs beat out the grizzlies. Grizz have played 4 less games and also more at home

Don't sleep on the Griz mate. Of course OKC is the popular choice but personally I think the Grizzlies (providing all the key pieces stay healthy) will beat OKC in a 7 game series, regardless of where it is played.

sando · 12-11-12, 03:39 AM

Originally posted by hawley

Say what?!

What changes do you see in OKC from last season that would see them destroy Miami? The progression in KD and Westbrook sufficient?

Who says OKC will come out of the West? I think both SA and Memphis match up really well with Miami and would cause all sorts of problems on the inside. Memphis is a superior defensive team, perfect to battle Miami's high powered offence.

hawley · 12-11-12, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by sando

Who says OKC will come out of the West? I think both SA and Memphis match up really well with Miami and would cause all sorts of problems on the inside. Memphis is a superior defensive team, perfect to battle Miami's high powered offence.

I picked one contender in the West and it happened to be the team that got humbled in the finals last year.

You said whatever team that comes out of the West will hammer the Heat.

I can't see the Grizz, Spurs or OKC being capable of destroying Miami.

rjt721 · 12-11-12, 03:42 AM

New York fans are always good for a laugh.

sando · 12-11-12, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by hawley

I picked one contender in the West and it happened to be the team that got humbled in the finals last year.

You said whatever team that comes out of the West will hammer the Heat.

I can't see the Grizz, Spurs or OKC being capable of destroying Miami.

Ok I definitely got carried away saying "Miami would get destroyed", I'll admit that. However I would like to go on the record right now and say that this years champion will come from the West, I believe this 100% and i have spent a lot of time thinking about it already although it is probably wasted time doing so until after the A/S break.

hawley · 12-11-12, 03:47 AM

Originally posted by sando

Ok I definitely got carried away saying "Miami would get destroyed", I'll admit that. However I would like to go on the record right now and say that this years champion will come from the West, I believe this 100% and i have spent a lot of time thinking about it already although it is probably wasted time doing so until after the A/S break.

Even more exciting that there is still a number of teams that can win the West.

I imagine we will have a few 7 game series.

sando · 12-11-12, 03:48 AM

Originally posted by hawley

Even more exciting that there is still a number of teams that can win the West.

I imagine we will have a few 7 game series.

Agree 100%. Sorry mate as you know from past experience I do have a tendency to get "over excited" and say some outrageous things, especially when talking NBA.

GamblerSpirit · 12-11-12, 03:50 AM

Originally posted by rjt721

New York Knicks fans are always good for a laugh.

Lol ..fixed

hawley · 12-11-12, 03:50 AM

Originally posted by sando

Agree 100%. Sorry mate as you know from past experience I do have a tendency to get "over excited" and say some outrageous things, especially when talking NBA.

No harm done pal. Love the discussion and passion

sando · 12-11-12, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by rjt721

New York fans are always good for a laugh.

Well I did live in NY for 2 years, but I am actually a diehard Lakers fan, although these days that is an embarrasing thing to admit.

freelee · 12-11-12, 03:58 AM

Originally posted by GamblerSpirit

Lol ..fixed

what the hell is that thing in your av

daimoshokage · 12-11-12, 03:58 AM

Attention whoring 101 by sando.. Stick to touting..

therealdealau · 12-11-12, 04:00 AM

Never be embarrassed Sando my man, we'll work it out. As far as the Knicks go you make excellent points they have the recipe to be a contender for sure. Selfishness is the question here I think Kidd down the stretch would be ideal unless Felton is playing lights out. I don't think you can comment till you see their dynamic with Amare though - remember how good the Knicks looked without either Amare or Melo last season? Shumpert is huge though, great defender and good on the break. In reality Miami's only strong opponent unless Boston get some veteran flair and get rolling in the playoffs. Definitely some value there, though you will be hoping they make the ECF.

The Giant · 12-11-12, 04:01 AM

The Knicks have a better chance of being a first-round casualty than winning it all.

Sport_Fish · 12-11-12, 04:04 AM

A few sloppy games from Miami this early in the season, and people have them not even making it out of the East. Unreal.

Anyone who has watched Miami the last couple of years know that this team is not even close to its best in the regular season - Now its hard to say why/how etc, but this is a completely different team in the playoffs - they fool u in the regular season. Knicks wont win more than 2 games against Heat in the playoffs.

This Heat team will be even more deadly with the addition of Allen and Lewis. And even without them, Miami has been destroying the playoffs since the big 3 formed. They just happened to run into a team having the run of their life and lost the finals first year, and slight hiccups their second year when Bosh went out.

So its hard to see where the doubt is coming from. Sure West is stronger and I think we need to wait till playoff time to really see if any team can beat Heat in a 7 series. But as for the East, the team that has teh best shot to beat Miami is Knicks and that is not gonna happen.

sando · 12-11-12, 04:12 AM

Originally posted by Sport_Fish

A few sloppy games from Miami this early in the season, and people have them not even making it out of the East. Unreal.

Anyone who has watched Miami the last couple of years know that this team is not even close to its best in the regular season - Now its hard to say why/how etc, but this is a completely different team in the playoffs - they fool u in the regular season. Knicks wont win more than 2 games against Heat in the playoffs.

This Heat team will be even more deadly with the addition of Allen and Lewis. And even without them, Miami has been destroying the playoffs since the big 3 formed. They just happened to run into a team having the run of their life and lost the finals first year, and slight hiccups their second year when Bosh went out.

So its hard to see where the doubt is coming from. Sure West is stronger and I think we need to wait till playoff time to really see if any team can beat Heat in a 7 series. But as for the East, the team that has teh best shot to beat Miami is Knicks and that is not gonna happen.

But would you still say that if...

1. Knicks have home court over the Heat in the playoffs?
2. They find a way for 'Melo and STAT to co-exist succesfully?
3. The Knicks are still playing at this level when April rolls around?

ChalkyDog · 12-11-12, 04:19 AM

They seem to have the Heats number - which is the only thing that matters to getting to the finals.

Can they beat an OKC team - who knows.

Sport_Fish · 12-11-12, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by sando

But would you still say that if...

1. Knicks have home court over the Heat in the playoffs?
2. They find a way for 'Melo and STAT to co-exist succesfully?
3. The Knicks are still playing at this level when April rolls around?

Yes.

1. I too would always use the home-court argument when deciding how Heat will perform. But after watching them in the playoffs the last two years, I have no doubt about them on the road - they have, and will continue to perform well on the road when needed. By far a better team at home, but they will not fool around when the time comes to play well at MSG, or other arenas. If playing on the road was gonna be a big issue for Miami, they could not have made it out of East last year. And this year, that is only going to get better now that they have more experience in tight series (something that lacked their first year and I believe was another reason they lost to Dallas). Miami had a cake-walk in the East and when time came in the finals in the 4th QTR against a solid team, they didn't know where to go.

2. Well I think there's a reason they dont co-exist succesfully and I dont see any reason to believe any different will happen when he returns. Having said that, I honestly can't judge what the issue is here exactly. I think a die-hard knicks fan or someone who watches and knows this team inside out may be able explain what the issue is with these two from a basketball standpoint, and IF this in fact is the reason they will beat Miami and/or do well in playoffs. Based on my knowledge though, I would still say Miami even if these two were 'successful'

3. Firstly, I'm fairly confident they will not be playing at this level come April. They will still be good and better than last year, but to be this consistent throughout the year, I don't see it. Secondly, the better thing to ask if Miami will be playing at this level come playoff time. Answer is hell no. And when that time comes, I'm sure Miami will raise their game and the Knicks will simply not be able to match it. Heat pretty much swept them last year (just one poorly executed play cost them the formality of going home and winning the series there). And sure Knicks have improved but so has Miami - we just haven't seen it yet.

PickyBob · 12-11-12, 04:51 AM

Originally posted by sando

Why not? They have all the pieces required...

A Superstar (franchise player) - Carmello.

Defensive lynchpin (Not 1 but 2) - Chandler on the Inside and Schumpert on the perimeter.

3 point bombers - (These guys have an entire squadron of 3 bombers) - Novak, Smith, Kidd, Prigioni, Anthony.

Genuine 6th man - Amare. Of course he will have to agree to come off the bench, BIG IF?

X - Factor - JR Smith

Veteran presence and leadership - Kidd and Thomas (perfect for hot headed guys like JR Smith)

Solid point guard - Felton. (Having a great season and recently stepped up big time as the "go to guy" in Carmello's absence)

Legitimate "closer" - Carmello again.

Solid and Experienced coach - Mike Woodson (definitely underrated)

Intimidating home court - MSG. Enough said.

If the Knicks keep going the way they are they will end up with the number one seed in the East. If A'mare agrees to come off the bench, then he and Carmello should be able to co-exist and it would give the Knicks the best second string in the NBA (yes even better than the Spurs). Of course the playoffs are a long long way away, however at this point in time can you really envision any team in the East (even the Heat) taking 4 of 7 games from the Knicks (with 4 of them at MSG)?

Knicks 2nd string

pg - Kidd
sg - Smith
sf - Novak
pf - Stoudemire
c - Wallace

C'mon now that list would defeat the starting five of probably half a dozen current NBA teams.

So why exactly can't the Knicks win it all? The books obviously don't think so, as you can still get anything up to +1750 on the Knicks to take the Larry O'Brien trophy home. Crazy odds.

NBA Stats - NBA Team Percent of Points from 3 Pointers | TeamRankings.com

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/percent-of-points-from-3-pointers

NBA percent of points from 3 pointers, by team.

Live by the 3, die by the 3.

Easy-Rider 66 · 12-11-12, 07:22 AM

Can't see it happening.

Tennispro · 12-11-12, 08:14 AM

Like your thinking NY is so deep still think Amare is not a good fit for the Knicks, would love to see a trade Amare for Pau.

ICE-BLOOD · 12-11-12, 08:35 AM

Knicks have a good shot to go far this year

Celtics08 · 12-11-12, 08:42 AM

with Felton don't win

BigDeem5 · 12-11-12, 09:56 AM

You guys are idiots. Melo is a born loser. You have to play defense as a unit, not just Tyson Chandler. Knicks won't make it past 2nd rd.

Goat Milk · 12-11-12, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by sando

Are you saying that Schumpert will guard Lebron then? Surely he is not big/strong enough to guard Lebron? However put him on D-Wade and he could completely shut him down with his Gary the Glove type intensity.

Doc please, Miami will get destroyed by whatever team comes out of the West this year. It will take war after war to get out of the West, whereas the East will be a joke until probably the conference finals. So assuminmg Miami comes out of the East they will be facing a battle hardened team that probably had to fight through EVERY round to get to the NBA finals.

No Schumpert would guard Wade if he gets back healthy. He can't shut down Wade, no chance. He is one of the better defenders in the NBA but Wade is a different guy come playoffs. Numbers back it up if you're a stats guy. Last year, Boston had a strategy to double team Wade every game and let Lebron go one on one and it nearly got them to the finals. If you let Wade go one on one with anyone in the league in the playoffs he's gonna beat you. Anthony will guard Lebron and Brewer will come in some times to check him.

Sando Miami doesn't care about the regular season anymore bro. Don't take too much out of how they have been playing. They really don't care. This team is way too stacked to lose to anyone in the East with the exception of NY IFFF Stoudemire gets back to his old self.

Sando Miami will smother those shooters like NOvak and Smith in the playoffs just like they did last year. Novak is the same player he was last year and he could barely get a shot attempt in the playoffs last year versus Miami let alone drill an open 3. Wade and Lebron are way too quick on the wings. They don't care about defense til it really matters.

If Stoudemire is a shell of himself, Knicks will not win anything. There's a big diff. between reg. season and a 7 game series that involves adjustments etc.

Lakers will win the West. Good luck stopping that team in a 7 game series. Huge difference.