Nov 28th __LAKERS 5-1 when KOBE scores under 25 pts... man, are they screwed

wguan2 · 11-28-12, 05:05 AM

Not saying this is necessarily true but your argument comes up a lot and it's possible that the causation is backwards. By looking at those two box scores, we can easily say ok when Kobe scores less/shoots less, Dwight/Pau get the ball more and therefore Lakers win. This is what you're saying. Kobe's shots -----> win/loss or whether pau/dwight get the ball

What if Kobe's shots go up when Pau/Dwight are simply not aggressive enough or the rest of the team isn't playing well? But they still lose because Kobe can't carry a team like he used to anymore. I'm not saying this is definitely the case, or the case all the time, but it's possible.

Let's look at the box scores:

Pau was 2-9 when they lost, 4-7 when they won. (btw Pau was AWFUL tonight. if you watched the game, he was the softest, most passive big man i've seen in a long time)
Jamison 1-7 lost, 7-11 won
Metta 1-8 lost, 7-10 won
Dwight 7-10, 5-11
Morris/Duhon combined 0-9, 4-12

Now let's look at the rest of the team's free throws because that was the story of the game tonight
12-30 (40%) L, 17-26 (65%)W

3 pointers
1-17, 11-20

Even if you didn't watch the game, you can tell Kobe was pushing it (for better or worse, obviously worse tonight) and that's why he committed 10 turnovers. But you can't so easily determine whether they lost because Kobe was pushing it or Kobe was pushing it because they were losing and the team was playing like shit. The FG attempts are there, the 3pt attempts are there, the free throws, everything (granted the lakers played less minutes in the win). The situation is not as easy as just "Kobe's a ballhog".

Ratzz · 11-28-12, 11:38 AM

good points.. i do believe that if anyone demonstrates any cold shooting, he cuts them off...
i watched half the game on an internet feed.. a heard the Laker announcers openly criticising
Kobe for a terrible 3-point attempt immediately following a timeout that a clearly frustrated D'Antoni
called... i think they said like.. "i'm sure that wasn't what D'Antoni talked about in the timeout"

something like that, but ******* that out, because Kobe received the ball.. and held it, inviting the double-team..
and took a fall away desperation (just ike the one that tied it) except this one failed, low percentage play.

It just seems to me, that he loves low percentage horses, where he the one holding the winning ticket.

but let's look at Kobe 28 shots, two 7-footers combined 19 shots.

Howard shooting .700 and gets only 10 shots..
if i am on that team, i pass to him so he gets over 20 shots*

wguan2 · 11-28-12, 01:02 PM

And what if you pass to him and they immediately foul because he's shit from the FT line?

Also, I know exactly what play you're talking about. They ran their play in that one coming out of a time out. The ball was swung from one side to the other, thrown into the post. The floor spacing was shit. The person in the post was passive inviting a double team. The double team came and it ball went to Kobe with time closing out on the shotclock. Kobe shot a shit 3 and missed.

If you looked at how Pau played last night, there's no way you could be mad at Kobe. Yes he gave up on the team and he needs to stop doing that, but it's hard not to when your team is shooting 1-17 from 3, sub 30% from the field (except for Dwight), and sub 40% from the line. Ron artest missed 2 free throws to lose that game last night. Dwight was 3-12! How can feed Dwight when they can foul him and expect him to only make 25%. That's pathetic as shit.

The Lakers are a weird team. When they go on cold streaks, it seems like EVERYONE goes on cold streaks, not just one player. It's just different.

Ratzz · 11-28-12, 01:54 PM

yeah, but i think that the lack of confidence begins with Kobe...
he is the one who drains it from others...
people mostly play worse around him because
he publicly punishes them if they goof up..Kobe has no patience..

when a person does well, he takes credit for passing them the ball..there are no psychological rewards for playing with him, it seems,
and it is just a matter of time, before his teammates unravel.

his entire body language is 'me'.

Look at that stupid bit where he is laying on the ground in the middle of the team area, with a towel on his head..

Why would D'Antoni permit that?

i would be like,
"get the f\*\*k up, and sit on the bench. If you are that sick, go home."

"don't occupy the team area, by making a spectacle of yourself."

What he did by laying out on the floor, is exactly what he did in the game.
"this is all about "me""

upscope · 11-28-12, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Ratzz

Howard shooting .700 and gets only 10 shots..
if i am on that team, i pass to him so he gets over 20 shots*

If he takes over 20 shots he's not gonna shoot 70%. He shot 70% cause he only shoots when he has easy looks & you only get so many easy looks a game. The only way he's getting 20 shots is if he takes several bad ones & if he did his % would go down.
Plus he took 12 ft's which technically was 6 more shots (max) since you don't get credited w/ a fg attempt when missing but fouled. Sixteen shot attempts is right behind league leaders.

Do yourself a favor & take some time to learn the game rather than spending all your time reaching. You're hatred for the Lakers/Kobe has become an obsession

Barnes & Whine · 11-28-12, 03:06 PM

HaHa, Rattz is so right. Whoever plays the Lakers, GO ahead and let Kobe shoot 100 shots and score 50. Who cares when your team wins. Kobe is a selfish fukin prick. Always knew this.

Tomasaurus · 11-28-12, 03:38 PM

If you watched the pacers vs lakers game yesterday there is no way you would think this. Pau and Howard got the ball a lot on the block or at the high post and did nothing with it. Often the Lakers would run high pick and roll with Kobe and Pau, Kobe draws the double and gives it to Pau at the high post and nothing happens and 3-5 seconds later the ball ends up with Kobe at the top with 10 seconds on the shot clock. Its not Kobes fault that there was no offence aside from him, or that when he gives the ball to Howard in the post which is a lot, Howard gets wrapped up or dragged out of position (fouled) goes to the free throw line and shoots 3-12.

All this BS about Kobe is not a team player is just that BS. If other people on the lakers could make a dam shot or take the ball off a pick and roll as the roll man then there would be no problem. Like Kobe went 5-11 from 3 last night while the rest of the team goes 1-17, now think how many of those 17 shots by Kobes team mates are wide open 3's in the middle of the clock vs Kobes which contain many hoisted shots with less than 5 seconds left where the team just gives him the ball because they couldn't make anything happen for the previous 19 seconds of the shot clock.

Last night Kobe had a great game, yes he scored a lot of points but that is because nobody else could. He went 11-13 from the line and the rest of the team goes 12-30. How can you look at that number and say Kobe scoring too many points= he's selfish and they'll lose.
When Kobe scores a lot of points its because the rest of his team are playing terrible on offence, can't run a play without him, can't make a shot, can't make a free throw etc and he has to bail them out. It happened last night and will keep happening unless everyone else on that teams steps up their game.

vinny808 · 11-28-12, 03:48 PM

I bet Rattz didn't even watch those games.....just talking out of his ass.

Fade.

Ratzz · 11-28-12, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by Tomasaurus

*Last night Kobe had a great game, yes he scored a lot of points but that is because nobody else could. He went 11-13 from the line and the rest of the team goes 12-30. How can you look at that number and say Kobe scoring too many points= he's selfish and they'll lose.
When Kobe scores a lot of points its because the rest of his team are playing terrible on offence, can't run a play without him, can't make a shot, can't make a free throw etc and he has to bail them out. It happened last night and will keep happening unless everyone else on that teams steps up their game.

lol.. what the hell are you talking about.. ?

Kobe shot 12-28, and TURNED THE BALL OVER 10 TIMES BY HIMSELF.

so a guy misses 16 shots, and loses 10 possessions BEFORE a shot is taken...
and he HAD A GREAT GAME!?!

ok, Kobie-bot, stay in that little bubble. don't come out.. it's nice and warm in there

matt1216 · 11-28-12, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by vinny808

I bet Rattz didn't even watch those games.....just talking out of his ass.

Fade.

LOL, Rattz is bang on. Kobe is always givin a blast of shit to Pau for not Grabbing his 30 foot no look behng the back pass. Kobe Never was a team player. He won with the most dominating bigman ever, Shaq!

A healthy Nash could get these big men the ball right underneath the hoop. Kobe is geat, but this aint 1 V 1

Tomasaurus · 11-28-12, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Ratzz

lol.. what the hell are you talking about.. ?

Kobe shot 12-28, and TURNED THE BALL OVER 10 TIMES BY HIMSELF.

so a guy misses 16 shots, and loses 10 possessions BEFORE a shot is taken...
and he HAD A GREAT GAME!?!

ok, Kobie-bot, stay in that little bubble. don't come out.. it's nice and warm in there

Again if you watched the game you wouldn't be thinking this. Yes Kobe turned it over 10 times, but when you get the ball every possession, no one on your team can make a shot and your the best player on the floor (and its not even close) you draw so many doubles. I mean from the Pacers POV why not bring help off Morris, MWP, Jamerson, Meeks or Dohan because they are shooting horrible, a collective 2-27 (yes really), so Kobe is doubled and turns it over. Or how about what was probably half of his turnovers, where Kobe got the ball late in the shot clock and had to create something off the dribble which leads to him either jacking up a tough/bad shot or losing it driving to the hoop. This though is not really his fault because again no one else can create by themselves on that team and no one could make a shot.

Yes Kobe missed 16 shots, but first of all the rest of his team went a whopping 12-48, plus how many of Kobes shots are difficult shots that he has no choice but to take vs wide open shots. When was the last time Kobe got a wide open mid range shot from the high post? What is a defense going to do, help off Kobe Bryant, F that they'll help off someone else and let them miss an open shot. Again like the 3 point attempts Kobe takes far fewer wide open 3's than anyone on that team, yet he makes a higher % of them.

In terms of this game though, even if you were just looking at the box which tells you very little about the game overall its still clear that Kobe wasn't the reason they lost... Kobe shot 12-28, 5-11 from 3 and 11-13 from the line.... The rest of the team went 12-48, 1-17 from 3 and 12-30 from the line...

Child please

Ratzz · 11-28-12, 05:36 PM

if i were an advisor to the lakers, i would tell Kupchak to trade Gasol and World Peace,
to the Thunder for Durant and Westbrook...

and don't try to get any extra picks out of the Thunder, or the deal is likely to get hung up
and might go on for a couple of weeks instead of bang-bang.

that way you have Westbrook feeding Kobe for the easy shot.. and Durant coming off the bench for when Kobe needs a rest..
or even.. have both Durant AND Westbrook BOTH feeding Kobe...\

and then have Durant /Howard under the basket to kick it back to him*
if Kobe is fouled and the shot is off (ref misses call again)

vinny808 · 11-28-12, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by matt1216

LOL, Rattz is bang on. Kobe is always givin a blast of shit to Pau for not Grabbing his 30 foot no look behng the back pass. Kobe Never was a team player. He won with the most dominating bigman ever, Shaq!

A healthy Nash could get these big men the ball right underneath the hoop. Kobe is geat, but this aint 1 V 1

I guess we can add Matt to the list of people who didn't watch the game last night. For one, Kobe is shooting 48.5% FGs this year.

Now lets take a look at all players who performed WORSE than Kobe.
Lakers - 31% FGs (Kobe shot 43% - higher than the team's average)
1) Pau Gasol 2/9 22% FGs
2)Metta 1/8 12.5% FGs
3)Darius Morris 0/6 0% FGs
4)Dwight Howard - fouled immediately or ball was stripped away from him numerously throughout the entire night.(For those who actually watched the game would know) The paint was clogged. Made the shot when he was open but if he was wasn't he missed his free throws 3/14 from the line.
Antawn Jamison - 1/7 14%
Chris Duhon- 0/3 0%
Jodie Meeks - 0/3 0%

Pacers - 36.7% team FG
1) Paul George 5/13 38% FG
2) Lance stephenson 2/8 - 25%
3)
penetrate it i'm tired. You get the point, look at the box score yourself. This was an ugly game for both teams.

Anyone who watched the game knows Lakers attempted to push the ball the entire night only to have it clogged and have pau/dwight stripped. Refs were not calling fouls down low either. So right, all those complainers who say just throw the ball to the inside, let Pau or Dwight do the work. Thats what they did last night! Gasol was 2/9 and Dwight missed his free throws! Oh, Dwight was in foul trouble the entire night as well. What are you going to do? Pass him the ball while hes on the bench?

Tomasaurus · 11-28-12, 05:42 PM

Lol, why don't you just tell him to trade Jodie Meeks for LeBron? I mean that is just as likely to happen as the trade you suggested

bleek88 · 11-28-12, 05:42 PM

under

Ratzz · 12-04-12, 11:05 PM

man, you might imagine.. that His Majesty would learn.. after blowing out Denver by 23 pts...
(14 pts by Kobe)

he goes on a tear... and they drop two.

the record NOW stands..

Lakers*(6-1) .857
Kobe LESS than 25 pts.*

Lakers*(2-9) .181
Kobe MORE than 25 pts.*

Kobe is Napoleon.. and this is Waterloo