Horse Racing questions and answers

[batt33]

Didn't like the post position.

No. All kidding aside, hope he is not sick or hurt. About the only two things I could think of. Maybe a slight temperature and he will be fine in 3 days. Sure hope it is something like that.

agreed...got a chuckle at the outside post comment though....

[str]

double header on saturday



# 3 deterministic

aqu
R5 @ 1:40
hill prince stakes g3

___________


" # 9 " world record

way off the rail

churchill
R9 @ 4:55
alw nw 3 ot or 4 lifetime


looks like lone speed to me

I just love the fact that C. Clement is methodically picking off spots for Deterministic that make sense and allows the horse to have every opportunity to gain confidence and grow mentally. You don't see that as much these days it doesn't seem. Everybody is always in such a hurry. I will look at that race as well but have to think he is perfectly spotted.

World record is liable to be lost way out there.

I will take a look. Could be a great setup for him. Hope so. More after I look at the pp's.

Thanks JBEX.

Shame about World Record scratching. Would have been interesting to say the least.

Deterministic: He looks like he fits well and will run well. There are others that could win but he is very capable of winning as well. Hopefully all that running off and not breathing stuff is well behind him. He is becoming quite consistent now that that stuff is hopefully gone for good.

[batt33]

I like # 3 deterministic. The 2 horse scares me a little decent work tab since the short break, Has run well after a break and you have Prat riding.

[JBEX]

Shame about World Record scratching. Would have been interesting to say the least.

Deterministic: He looks like he fits well and will run well. There are others that could win but he is very capable of winning as well. Hopefully all that running off and not breathing stuff is well behind him. He is becoming quite consistent now that that stuff is hopefully gone for good.

deterministic just a very professional racehorse .. has the speed out of the gate to establish a good position,takes cues (per str) from jockey and gets it done..has as a good a trainer as you can have taking care of him and calling the shots
..great set of circumstances

I see two potential options to end the year factoring in getting in another race vs 3 year olds..I would assume if he's ok that clement would want to take advantage of this..

listed stakes turf 8.5f gulfstream on 12/14 (5 weeks)

or

something at santa anita final week of the year (open 12/26)
..would have to think they would have a race of this type then


I would love to see them give the dirt another go at some point .. showed too much potential in his first two starts to never run on it again imo..overall this is a very unique set of circumstances wouldn't you agree str ?




.

[str]

deterministic just a very professional racehorse .. has the speed out of the gate to establish a good position,takes cues (per str) from jockey and gets it done..has as a good a trainer as you can have taking care of him and calling the shots
..great set of circumstances

I see two potential options to end the year factoring in getting in another race vs 3 year olds..I would assume if he's ok that clement would want to take advantage of this..

listed stakes turf 8.5f gulfstream on 12/14 (5 weeks)

or

something at santa anita final week of the year (open 12/26)
..would have to think they would have a race of this type then


I would love to see them give the dirt another go at some point .. showed too much potential in his first two starts to never run on it again imo..overall this is a very unique set of circumstances wouldn't you agree str ?




.

He sure has turned into a pro so it seems. He's been through a lot with the angst of getting wrapped up in early pace and competition, his rider losing his iron leaving the gate, and about every difficult situation a horse can have for so few starts. But he has learned from all this and become what you now see. He's quickly turning into a real pro. Just great to see. Some of that has to go to the horses mentality and his ability to learn and retain. And, I can't stress enough how great a job Clement is doing. He has made it look easy but it is so not easy. It took Todd a year and time away to get Kingsbarns where he wanted him and he was just finding his groove when he had to be stopped and retired. I always knew Clement was a really solid trainer but my gosh, he is elite in my book and I don't heap that kind of talk on that many trainers.

As for running on dirt? Yes, it would be cool to see him as he has shown the ability from early on. But my guess is that Clement does not want to change anything as of right now. I remember saying to myself, albeit with a much lesser animal than Clement has, that when a horse of mine was happy and doing great that I would ride that wave all the way to the sand.

Maybe he will at some point. It would be something you do not see much when the horse handles both surfaces well which he seems to do. But he also I would think, does not want to take a chance of confusing, or disrupting anything at this point. But, whatever he does, I will be applauding it when it comes to this horse. He has hit every button perfectly so far and I have to think that will continue.
And yes, as you know, it is unique to see it, these days especially.

Thanks JBEX.

[batt33]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Sweet Voyage Race Update
[/COLOR]
Sweet Voyage exited her most recent work in good order. A $50,000 maiden claiming option going five furlongs on the turf was hung up on the most recent overnight (see above), which will now be our primary race target. Entries will be taken tomorrow for Friday, November 15th. It’s unlikely the race will be used on Friday, but the racing office does believe it will be used over the weekend.
Trainer Dan Blacker feels we will be much better off sprinting her off the bench based on her recent training, which we can not disagree with. While he’s been very pleased with how she’s breezed the past two weeks over the training track, she has been very keen in the early stages of her works and the concern going two turns the first time back is that she will not rate as she will need to. With a race under her belt, it will be a different story but the better starting point in Dan’s opinion is the sprint option.

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Straight No Chaser Update

Straight No Chaser went back to the track this morning for his first jog at Santa Anita Park since his victory in the Breeders’ Cup Sprint. He has remained in great physical order since the race and trainer Dan Blacker couldn’t be happier with him.
Looking ahead at the racing schedule, there are no local options for your son of Speightster until early February, which will interfere with our goal of targeting the 2025 G3 Riyadh Dirt Sprint in Saudi Arabia, followed by the G1 Dubai Golden Shaheen. Next year will be the first time these races are six weeks apart which Dan feel's confident Straight No Chaser can handle.
We plan to freshen up Straight No Chaser through the remainder of November and start him back up in training around the first of December. At this time, he will remain at Santa Anita with Dan and his staff but his daily routine will be limited to walking and tack-walking for the next few weeks.

[/COLOR]

[JBEX]

He sure has turned into a pro so it seems. He's been through a lot with the angst of getting wrapped up in early pace and competition, his rider losing his iron leaving the gate, and about every difficult situation a horse can have for so few starts. But he has learned from all this and become what you now see. He's quickly turning into a real pro. Just great to see. Some of that has to go to the horses mentality and his ability to learn and retain. And, I can't stress enough how great a job Clement is doing. He has made it look easy but it is so not easy. It took Todd a year and time away to get Kingsbarns where he wanted him and he was just finding his groove when he had to be stopped and retired. I always knew Clement was a really solid trainer but my gosh, he is elite in my book and I don't heap that kind of talk on that many trainers.

As for running on dirt? Yes, it would be cool to see him as he has shown the ability from early on. But my guess is that Clement does not want to change anything as of right now. I remember saying to myself, albeit with a much lesser animal than Clement has, that when a horse of mine was happy and doing great that I would ride that wave all the way to the sand.

Maybe he will at some point. It would be something you do not see much when the horse handles both surfaces well which he seems to do. But he also I would think, does not want to take a chance of confusing, or disrupting anything at this point. But, whatever he does, I will be applauding it when it comes to this horse. He has hit every button perfectly so far and I have to think that will continue.
And yes, as you know, it is unique to see it, these days especially.

Thanks JBEX.

no problem str and can definitely understand the worry of disrupting the momentum of something that is going well

on the other hand if they're looking towards him being a stallion,as you know,dirt credentials are much more valuable than turf and if anything that's an understatement ..can't see not giving it another try with him at some point..whatever they decide ,like you, enjoy following along

[str]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Sweet Voyage Race Update
[/COLOR]
Sweet Voyage exited her most recent work in good order. A $50,000 maiden claiming option going five furlongs on the turf was hung up on the most recent overnight (see above), which will now be our primary race target. Entries will be taken tomorrow for Friday, November 15th. It’s unlikely the race will be used on Friday, but the racing office does believe it will be used over the weekend.
Trainer Dan Blacker feels we will be much better off sprinting her off the bench based on her recent training, which we can not disagree with. While he’s been very pleased with how she’s breezed the past two weeks over the training track, she has been very keen in the early stages of her works and the concern going two turns the first time back is that she will not rate as she will need to. With a race under her belt, it will be a different story but the better starting point in Dan’s opinion is the sprint option.

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Straight No Chaser Update

Straight No Chaser went back to the track this morning for his first jog at Santa Anita Park since his victory in the Breeders’ Cup Sprint. He has remained in great physical order since the race and trainer Dan Blacker couldn’t be happier with him.
Looking ahead at the racing schedule, there are no local options for your son of Speightster until early February, which will interfere with our goal of targeting the 2025 G3 Riyadh Dirt Sprint in Saudi Arabia, followed by the G1 Dubai Golden Shaheen. Next year will be the first time these races are six weeks apart which Dan feel's confident Straight No Chaser can handle.
We plan to freshen up Straight No Chaser through the remainder of November and start him back up in training around the first of December. At this time, he will remain at Santa Anita with Dan and his staff but his daily routine will be limited to walking and tack-walking for the next few weeks.

[/COLOR]

Sweet Voyage: My comments are for those that follow and certainly not towards the trainer or anyone involved. I say that because I know that the trainer already knows what I am going to say and the last thing I would want to do is to second guess him. Maybe after I win my next Breeders Cup race I will being as my next one will be my 1st one. Lol.

I totally get what the trainer is thinking. she has looked really aggressive in those works. You don't want her running off 1st race back and hitting a wall at the 3/8ths pole. Very little good can come of that.
So going 5/8ths can work but lets hope she breaks well and can settle somewhat even though it is a quick sprint. I would think in a perfect world she might lay mid pack to back a little more and finish even or maybe make up a little through the lane. From what little I have seen, it seems that that might be optimal. But not being around her, he would know tons more than I ever could about it.
I think , as with every horse we talk about in here, that learning to relax and breath, even if on the lead, is essential to success. Let's watch for that when she runs.

Straight No Chaser: A well earned next few weeks of walking and walking with a saddle on around the shed is well deserved and smart at this time IMO. The knee jerk is to run back as he ran a super race, no doubt his best race yet in his last effort. Fans want to see more. Who doesn't. But.... tough as it is sometimes, it is very much the exact right call in this scenario.
Batt, your investment, win or lose, is in good, well thought out hands. This operation as a whole is run very well. That needs to feel good Batt. You are surrounded by pros everywhere I can see. Good for you my man.

[str]

no problem str and can definitely understand the worry of disrupting the momentum of something that is going well

on the other hand if they're looking towards him being a stallion,as you know,dirt credentials are much more valuable than turf and if anything that's an understatement ..can't see not giving it another try with him at some point..whatever they decide ,like you, enjoy following along

I totally get it with the sire values. Because he is three and only about 6-7 months into grasping what rating , relaxing, breathing, etc. is all about, it might be a little premature to throw him a curveball right now and change up. Just a guess as I do not know the actual horse at all.
But Clement does, and if I had to guess, a change in surface might be better suited next year towards the summer or early fall. At some point a race will be taken off the turf and maybe that is the time to explore a dirt/mud, option. Just a guess from the peanut gallery but I would be so protective of his psyche still, that I would not want to mess with anything for a few more races. But that's just me. Over protective more often than not.
A great point you make though as he moves forward JBEX.

[JBEX]

I totally get it with the sire values. Because he is three and only about 6-7 months into grasping what rating , relaxing, breathing, etc. is all about, it might be a little premature to throw him a curveball right now and change up. Just a guess as I do not know the actual horse at all.
But Clement does, and if I had to guess, a change in surface might be better suited next year towards the summer or early fall. At some point a race will be taken off the turf and maybe that is the time to explore a dirt/mud, option. Just a guess from the peanut gallery but I would be so protective of his psyche still, that I would not want to mess with anything for a few more races. But that's just me. Over protective more often than not.
A great point you make though as he moves forward JBEX.

thanks str

sure the connections will manage that possibility well come next year ..also should be considered that his 2nd career start was a graded stakes win on the dirt (well slop) in the gotham @ aqu ..winning your debut as a 2yo @ 7f at saratoga in august similiar level to a stakes anyway imo ..so already has established some nice dirt credentials ,for breeding considerations, and maybe that plays into their decision to keep him on the turf longer

maybe gulfstream could schedule one of those alowance haven't won a race this year races in April if he's coming off at least a 3 month layoff .. might not be a bad time to try it considering he won his debut and then the gotham off a 7 month layoff .. 1 turn mile would be perfect ..acknowledge this is from a fans/capping perspective and don't know the specifics of what's going on with the horse..
be interesting the path they go with him,starting with was saturday his last race this year





.

[JBEX]

thanks str

sure the connections will manage that possibility well come next year ..also should be considered that his 2nd career start was a graded stakes win on the dirt (well slop) in the gotham @ aqu ..winning your debut as a 2yo @ 7f at saratoga in august similiar level to a stakes anyway imo ..so already has established some nice dirt credentials ,for breeding considerations, and maybe that plays into their decision to keep him on the turf longer

maybe gulfstream could schedule one of those alowance haven't won a race this year races in April if he's coming off at least a 3 month layoff .. might not be a bad time to try it considering he won his debut and then the gotham off a 7 month layoff .. 1 turn mile would be perfect ..acknowledge this is from a fans/capping perspective and don't know the specifics of what's going on with the horse..
be interesting the path they go with him,starting with was saturday his last race this year





.

I believe this is something they add to a nw2 or 3x ot alw race and not a stand alone condition .. maybe a minimum distance of a mile along with that also..know we've discussed this type of race before str .. understand this is less likely to happen but just throwing it out there as a reasonable spot to give it a go on the dirt




.

[str]

thanks str

sure the connections will manage that possibility well come next year ..also should be considered that his 2nd career start was a graded stakes win on the dirt (well slop) in the gotham @ aqu ..winning your debut as a 2yo @ 7f at saratoga in august similiar level to a stakes anyway imo ..so already has established some nice dirt credentials ,for breeding considerations, and maybe that plays into their decision to keep him on the turf longer

maybe gulfstream could schedule one of those alowance haven't won a race this year races in April if he's coming off at least a 3 month layoff .. might not be a bad time to try it considering he won his debut and then the gotham off a 7 month layoff .. 1 turn mile would be perfect ..acknowledge this is from a fans/capping perspective and don't know the specifics of what's going on with the horse..
be interesting the path they go with him,starting with was saturday his last race this year





.

I believe this is something they add to a nw2 or 3x ot alw race and not a stand alone condition .. maybe a minimum distance of a mile along with that also..know we've discussed this type of race before str .. understand this is less likely to happen but just throwing it out there as a reasonable spot to give it a go on the dirt




.

I’m sure he will find something that suits him when the time comes but as we talked about before with these kind of races, there are so many horses that become eligible that you really have to be careful.
You never know when you go in a race thinking it might be a nice relaxing starting point and Todd thought the same thing and Your looking at Fierceness in the next stall over in the gate. Yikes !!

[batt33]

I totally get it with the sire values. Because he is three and only about 6-7 months into grasping what rating , relaxing, breathing, etc. is all about, it might be a little premature to throw him a curveball right now and change up. Just a guess as I do not know the actual horse at all.
But Clement does, and if I had to guess, a change in surface might be better suited next year towards the summer or early fall. At some point a race will be taken off the turf and maybe that is the time to explore a dirt/mud, option. Just a guess from the peanut gallery but I would be so protective of his psyche still, that I would not want to mess with anything for a few more races. But that's just me. Over protective more often than not.
A great point you make though as he moves forward JBEX.

I agree 100% with this... Just by the way he is training a couple of horses for"MRH"

[batt33]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Caldera Breeze Report
[/COLOR]
Caldera returned to the work tab right on schedule this morning, covering a half-mile at Churchill Downs in :48.40 (7/44). This was a typical first breeze back from a race. He will likely have at least two more works before his next appearance. No word yet on when the Lukas barn will begin moving horses to Oaklawn, but we would expect that to happen closer to the start of the meet (Dec. 6).

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Sweet Voyage Workout Report

Sweet Voyage breezed four furlongs in :48.80 yesterday morning over the Santa Anita Park training track. Your daughter of Candy Ride worked on her own under her usual pilot, Juan Landeros. In typical fashion, she was slow to change leads in the stretch, but did level off in the late stages.
As expected, the previously mentioned extra was not used for Friday’s card at Del Mar, but surprisingly, it was not brought back on the overnight despite having four horses entered. The racing secretary at Del Mar says that he plans to bring it back on November 17th’s overnight for the racecard on Friday, November 22nd. We'll plan to enter again then.

https://youtu.be/9WN1FepeimE

[/COLOR]

[batt33]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Seize the Grey Update
[/COLOR]
We were out at Gainesway Farm this morning to check on Seize the Grey. Your dual Grade 1 winner has had a seamless transition to farm life. Gainesway reports that he has been substantial interest by breeders. Stallion Director Ryan Norton reports that there have been approximately 100 mares booked for a date with Seize the Grey already. It is likely he will cover approximately 175 mares for his first year at stud.

Wow hopefully the numbers hold up!

[batt33]

And continuing the training of Stylishly at the farm.....I love the commentary explaining the process!

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Stylishly ‘23 Training Update
[/COLOR]
Your son of Not This Time has begun galloping in a paddock at Wavertree Stables. This will continue to be his daily activity until he graduates to the training track, which is typically something that happens in early December. Please enjoy this video of his first day in his new routine

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/blog/video/StylishlyNotThisTimeWeek7Paddock_1731436142019/MP4/StylishlyNotThisTimeWeek7Paddock_1731436142019.mp4

[str]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Caldera Breeze Report
[/COLOR]
Caldera returned to the work tab right on schedule this morning, covering a half-mile at Churchill Downs in :48.40 (7/44). This was a typical first breeze back from a race. He will likely have at least two more works before his next appearance. No word yet on when the Lukas barn will begin moving horses to Oaklawn, but we would expect that to happen closer to the start of the meet (Dec. 6).

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Sweet Voyage Workout Report

Sweet Voyage breezed four furlongs in :48.80 yesterday morning over the Santa Anita Park training track. Your daughter of Candy Ride worked on her own under her usual pilot, Juan Landeros. In typical fashion, she was slow to change leads in the stretch, but did level off in the late stages.
As expected, the previously mentioned extra was not used for Friday’s card at Del Mar, but surprisingly, it was not brought back on the overnight despite having four horses entered. The racing secretary at Del Mar says that he plans to bring it back on November 17th’s overnight for the racecard on Friday, November 22nd. We'll plan to enter again then.

https://youtu.be/9WN1FepeimE

[/COLOR]

It's hard to get an extra race rewritten that only gets 4 in it. Especially on a weekend. Makes sense to give it another 5 days or so to hopefully get a few new entries in it.

[str]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Seize the Grey Update
[/COLOR]
We were out at Gainesway Farm this morning to check on Seize the Grey. Your dual Grade 1 winner has had a seamless transition to farm life. Gainesway reports that he has been substantial interest by breeders. Stallion Director Ryan Norton reports that there have been approximately 100 mares booked for a date with Seize the Grey already. It is likely he will cover approximately 175 mares for his first year at stud.

Wow hopefully the numbers hold up!

That's what Seize the Grey said.

[str]

And continuing the training of Stylishly at the farm.....I love the commentary explaining the process!

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Stylishly ‘23 Training Update
[/COLOR]
Your son of Not This Time has begun galloping in a paddock at Wavertree Stables. This will continue to be his daily activity until he graduates to the training track, which is typically something that happens in early December. Please enjoy this video of his first day in his new routine

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/blog/video/StylishlyNotThisTimeWeek7Paddock_1731436142019/MP4/StylishlyNotThisTimeWeek7Paddock_1731436142019.mp4

It doesn't get much better or more professional than that Batt.

[str]

The quote below was posted by Thezbar in another thread. It is great advise but can be tough to incorporate when you spend a day at the races.
Below the quote is a thought process I used when I figured out how to bet instead of just betting each race the same.

"You can beat a race but you can't beat the races. In other words know your strengths and weakness and be very selective with your wagering strategies.

If this is a problem you run into when at the track and would like to fix that, consider this: I started doing this when I was 17 and although I stopped betting at 20 years old because I was starting to train and had to no daily time during the race card to give towards betting.

This will also work with all sports betting if you enjoy money management and having your best chance to beat the game long term. I have used this simple method for sports betting and it is no doubt the reason I have done just fine gambling for what is now about 50 years. I enjoy the games, or races. And I keep track of all profits and losses. This has really served me very well and I have to think it will do the same for you.

To avoid money management problems when you get wrapped up in a racing card and are betting most if not all the races because you are in attendance which always prompts wanting to bet each race, try this:


Bring two amounts of money. The amounts are your particular amount that you can comfortably afford to risk AND an amount or two that you would risk if you just loved a certain horse in a race.

Play those races that are not that major opinion based but more an entertainment amount of a bet with the first amount of money you have allotted yourself to use for the day. So lets call it, 5 bucks a race.
Ten races so let's say 50 bucks.( Obviously it can be whatever amount you are comfortable with and can afford to spend, and lose on the day of recreation.)

The 2nd amount of money is not to be used AT ALL unless you come across a race that you just love a position in. Typically more often than not, you will not use that amount at all. But IF the occasion arises, you are prepared. If that arises, still use your 5 bucks on the horse with amount #1. Then, play what you feel you should with amount #2 which is a "only now and then" type amount for that race.

Once that race is over, it's over. Cash your ticket if you won, and put amount #2 away. Now cash your ticket from amount #1 and continue to play the same amount affordable to you like nothing happened.

Those two amounts never comingle! One is for entertainment. The other is for investing. Respect the difference. And respect your money. You have worked hard for that.

I cannot tell you how much money is either lost or NOT won because of poor money management. Almost every casual player has that problem so you are not alone. I certainly did but tried fixing it, and it worked!

This method is simple and only requires you to give it an honest chance. If you do, I feel confident it will help with money management as well as your bottom line each year.

Good luck everyone.

[JBEX]

The quote below was posted by Thezbar in another thread. It is great advise but can be tough to incorporate when you spend a day at the races.
Below the quote is a thought process I used when I figured out how to bet instead of just betting each race the same.

"You can beat a race but you can't beat the races. In other words know your strengths and weakness and be very selective with your wagering strategies.

If this is a problem you run into when at the track and would like to fix that, consider this: I started doing this when I was 17 and although I stopped betting at 20 years old because I was starting to train and had to no daily time during the race card to give towards betting.

This will also work with all sports betting if you enjoy money management and having your best chance to beat the game long term. I have used this simple method for sports betting and it is no doubt the reason I have done just fine gambling for what is now about 50 years. I enjoy the games, or races. And I keep track of all profits and losses. This has really served me very well and I have to think it will do the same for you.

To avoid money management problems when you get wrapped up in a racing card and are betting most if not all the races because you are in attendance which always prompts wanting to bet each race, try this:


Bring two amounts of money. The amounts are your particular amount that you can comfortably afford to risk AND an amount or two that you would risk if you just loved a certain horse in a race.

Play those races that are not that major opinion based but more an entertainment amount of a bet with the first amount of money you have allotted yourself to use for the day. So lets call it, 5 bucks a race.
Ten races so let's say 50 bucks.( Obviously it can be whatever amount you are comfortable with and can afford to spend, and lose on the day of recreation.)

The 2nd amount of money is not to be used AT ALL unless you come across a race that you just love a position in. Typically more often than not, you will not use that amount at all. But IF the occasion arises, you are prepared. If that arises, still use your 5 bucks on the horse with amount #1. Then, play what you feel you should with amount #2 which is a "only now and then" type amount for that race.

Once that race is over, it's over. Cash your ticket if you won, and put amount #2 away. Now cash your ticket from amount #1 and continue to play the same amount affordable to you like nothing happened.

Those two amounts never comingle! One is for entertainment. The other is for investing. Respect the difference. And respect your money. You have worked hard for that.

I cannot tell you how much money is either lost or NOT won because of poor money management. Almost every casual player has that problem so you are not alone. I certainly did but tried fixing it, and it worked!

This method is simple and only requires you to give it an honest chance. If you do, I feel confident it will help with money management as well as your bottom line each year.

Good luck everyone.

100% agree .. great way to bet

[str]

The quote below was posted by Thezbar in another thread. It is great advise but can be tough to incorporate when you spend a day at the races.
Below the quote is a thought process I used when I figured out how to bet instead of just betting each race the same.

"You can beat a race but you can't beat the races. In other words know your strengths and weakness and be very selective with your wagering strategies.

If this is a problem you run into when at the track and would like to fix that, consider this: I started doing this when I was 17 and although I stopped betting at 20 years old because I was starting to train and had to no daily time during the race card to give towards betting.

This will also work with all sports betting if you enjoy money management and having your best chance to beat the game long term. I have used this simple method for sports betting and it is no doubt the reason I have done just fine gambling for what is now about 50 years. I enjoy the games, or races. And I keep track of all profits and losses. This has really served me very well and I have to think it will do the same for you.

To avoid money management problems when you get wrapped up in a racing card and are betting most if not all the races because you are in attendance which always prompts wanting to bet each race, try this:


Bring two amounts of money. The amounts are your particular amount that you can comfortably afford to risk AND an amount or two that you would risk if you just loved a certain horse in a race.

Play those races that are not that major opinion based but more an entertainment amount of a bet with the first amount of money you have allotted yourself to use for the day. So lets call it, 5 bucks a race.
Ten races so let's say 50 bucks.( Obviously it can be whatever amount you are comfortable with and can afford to spend, and lose on the day of recreation.)

The 2nd amount of money is not to be used AT ALL unless you come across a race that you just love a position in. Typically more often than not, you will not use that amount at all. But IF the occasion arises, you are prepared. If that arises, still use your 5 bucks on the horse with amount #1. Then, play what you feel you should with amount #2 which is a "only now and then" type amount for that race.

Once that race is over, it's over. Cash your ticket if you won, and put amount #2 away. Now cash your ticket from amount #1 and continue to play the same amount affordable to you like nothing happened.

Those two amounts never comingle! One is for entertainment. The other is for investing. Respect the difference. And respect your money. You have worked hard for that.

I cannot tell you how much money is either lost or NOT won because of poor money management. Almost every casual player has that problem so you are not alone. I certainly did but tried fixing it, and it worked!

This method is simple and only requires you to give it an honest chance. If you do, I feel confident it will help with money management as well as your bottom line each year.

Good luck everyone.

I don't want to come off as preaching here, but... IF you are finding it difficult to keep your head above water playing into college or pro football or basketball, what I mentioned above plays perfectly into all sports, not just horse racing. I know from experience that players want to play the games they can watch. No problem. Simply categorize your plays like we do with the horses. You play depending on entertainment or investment. Keep track of each closely from season to season.
Remember it is season to season, not week to week and paying the friggin man on Monday (JJ, you clown). This "all in" or "get out" crap is exactly that. The season is a lifetime not a week, year or anything but the full length of time you are betting. To measure it any other way, it will skew your amounts invested or played with and that directly affects your bottom line. I realize many of you already know this but if this helps just a few players become better players at the track or playing games, it is worth it.
Hope that makes sense because I promise you it will help if help is needed.

[batt33]

I don't want to come off as preaching here, but... IF you are finding it difficult to keep your head above water playing into college or pro football or basketball, what I mentioned above plays perfectly into all sports, not just horse racing. I know from experience that players want to play the games they can watch. No problem. Simply categorize your plays like we do with the horses. You play depending on entertainment or investment. Keep track of each closely from season to season.
Remember it is season to season, not week to week and paying the friggin man on Monday (JJ, you clown). This "all in" or "get out" crap is exactly that. The season is a lifetime not a week, year or anything but the full length of time you are betting. To measure it any other way, it will skew your amounts invested or played with and that directly affects your bottom line. I realize many of you already know this but if this helps just a few players become better players at the track or playing games, it is worth it.
Hope that makes sense because I promise you it will help if help is needed.

Very good points STR!

Like I said When I was younger the group of us used to travel to the tracks ( and bet all the races). But with the advent of OTB and on line betting.... it's like kids in a candy store.... so I had to re think.... the "wagering" aspect vs entertainment. I've (yes work in progress but getting better) narrowed races that I will bet vs entertainment.

I enjoy watching "my horses" run as well as my parents but the value of betting them to win is over the top with the amount of owners... and the "off" odds. Most of the time I try to connect them horizontally. I can live with my horse winning and not betting them lol.

What I missed is the "bet points" sports book that we used to have. You had a chance to win"something" , had entertainment value, and It felt pretty good turning points into donations. It also scratched an "itch" if you just wanted to watch a game on tv and have something on it.

[str]

Very good points STR!

Like I said When I was younger the group of us used to travel to the tracks ( and bet all the races). But with the advent of OTB and on line betting.... it's like kids in a candy store.... so I had to re think.... the "wagering" aspect vs entertainment. I've (yes work in progress but getting better) narrowed races that I will bet vs entertainment.

I enjoy watching "my horses" run as well as my parents but the value of betting them to win is over the top with the amount of owners... and the "off" odds. Most of the time I try to connect them horizontally. I can live with my horse winning and not betting them lol.

What I missed is the "bet points" sports book that we used to have. You had a chance to win"something" , had entertainment value, and It felt pretty good turning points into donations. It also scratched an "itch" if you just wanted to watch a game on tv and have something on it.

Betting just disappeared for me when I was in competition daily with all the other trainers. And claiming or looking to claim horses daily was more than enough action for me.

[JBEX]

Keep an eye on her.


Terrible break, pinched, rusheShe might be a play next out. d and running off into the far turn. The rider hits her once and can feel her empty out. He puts the stick away at the 1/8th pole. She tries but is simply out of gas.
Better break and she will be right there next out.

talking about wisconsin gal (army mule)

failed at my assignment wired the field ($13.78) @ churchill on breeders cup day .. same level she'd been running at ..restricted msw ..nice call nonetheless str





was trying to highlight things in the quote but think I messed up some of what you said in doing so

[JBEX]

Keep an eye on her.


She might be a play next out. Terrible break, pinched, rushed and running off into the far turn. The rider hits her once and can feel her empty out. He puts the stick away at the 1/8th pole. She tries but is simply out of gas.
Better break and she will be right there next out.

here's the quote in pristine form lol

[str]

talking about wisconsin gal (army mule)

failed at my assignment wired the field ($13.78) @ churchill on breeders cup day .. same level she'd been running at ..restricted msw ..nice call nonetheless str





was trying to highlight things in the quote but think I messed up some of what you said in doing so

here's the quote in pristine form lol

Thanks JBEX. I do hope someone that reads through this had this horse. Being by Army Mule. you knew the speed, guts, and ability were all there. Once the horse broke, it was pretty much a done deal. 13.80 always feels good.

If you watch enough races, things like this will always come up. I know it might seem boring to watch races and not be betting on them all but if you look at it like you are hunting for plays, you don't have to always bet, just watch. And when they do show up, bet them. Once they start cashing, there is nothing boring about that !
And if anyone has some doubt, I will do my best to double check for you if time allows.

[JBEX]

Thanks JBEX. I do hope someone that reads through this had this horse. Being by Army Mule. you knew the speed, guts, and ability were all there. Once the horse broke, it was pretty much a done deal. 13.80 always feels good.

If you watch enough races, things like this will always come up. I know it might seem boring to watch races and not be betting on them all but if you look at it like you are hunting for plays, you don't have to always bet, just watch. And when they do show up, bet them. Once they start cashing, there is nothing boring about that !
And if anyone has some doubt, I will do my best to double check for you if time allows.

np str


probably value to be had in all situations..stepping up to the next level or a breakout effort while getting some experience and pp's don't look so good


one of each going @ cd..both are 2yo's

army mule

R6 #2 california burrito (10-1)

broke maiden easy 2nd start in the slop..allowance race today

@ 3:26



following race


liam's map

R7 #10 modo (12-1)

debut



.

[str]

np str


probably value to be had in all situations..stepping up to the next level or a breakout effort while getting some experience and pp's don't look so good


one of each going @ cd..both are 2yo's

army mule

R6 #2 california burrito (10-1)

broke maiden easy 2nd start in the slop..allowance race today

@ 3:26



following race


liam's map

R7 #10 modo (12-1)

debut



.

Just looked at the Liams Map. It's a small world JBEX.

I used to train for the owners father in Md. when Ohio closed down for the winter and early spring. His name was Jacques Politi.
Pretty sure I met Joel along the way as he brought one of his kids with him a couple of times. Long time ago though.

[str]

Excellent last race.

Two turns already.

Interesting. I know I'm like a broken record but all they do is run hard.

[batt33]

np str


probably value to be had in all situations..stepping up to the next level or a breakout effort while getting some experience and pp's don't look so good


one of each going @ cd..both are 2yo's

army mule

R6 #2 california burrito (10-1)

broke maiden easy 2nd start in the slop..allowance race today

@ 3:26



following race


liam's map

R7 #10 modo (12-1)

debut



.

following!

[str]

Just looked at the Liams Map. It's a small world JBEX.

I used to train for the owners father in Md. when Ohio closed down for the winter and early spring. His name was Jacques Politi.
Pretty sure I met Joel along the way as he brought one of his kids with him a couple of times. Long time ago though.

I found an old picture of Jacques Politi's horse winning. He was not there that day it looks like. He did not always drive in from Ohio. I'll post it as soon as I have some time.

[Madison]

Sun 11/17 AQ R6 W/Angels #1. Would you offer thoughts on this progression both distance and purse.

When do the Oaks futures come out??

[str]

Sun 11/17 AQ R6 W/Angels #1. Would you offer thoughts on this progression both distance and purse.

When do the Oaks futures come out??

Madison, It does not look like I can pull up a racing form on that race.

[batt33]

Just looked at the Liams Map. It's a small world JBEX.

I used to train for the owners father in Md. when Ohio closed down for the winter and early spring. His name was Jacques Politi.
Pretty sure I met Joel along the way as he brought one of his kids with him a couple of times. Long time ago though.

That's pretty cool!