Horse Racing questions and answers

[str]

Str,

Just curious. If you were to look for a horse at an auction that you want to train to make a triple crown run, what bloodlines would you be looking for and what dosage? Another question is if you could breed horses today with any two, what two would it be?

I know those are loaded questions, take your time, lol

Q. If you were to look for a horse at an auction that you want to train to make a triple crown run, what bloodlines would you be looking for and what dosage? Another question is if you could breed horses today with any two, what two would it be?

A. The tough part about doing this is finding the bloodlines you want and then finding a yearling that is put together properly with all those traits wrapped up with a pretty little bow. THAT, is really hard to find. But having said that, my answer would be fairly simple.

I will answer both questions with the one answer.

I would want Bold Ruler and Northern Dancer.

As for the dosage, I would look to see what it was, but I am not a huge dosage guy. It is always nice when the dosage is around 4.50 or less but pretty sure with those two monsters in the bloodlines, it would probably be around that anyway.

Those two horses were and still are the gold standard for breeding.

Fun question. Thanks for asking.

[RangeFinder]

Q. If you were to look for a horse at an auction that you want to train to make a triple crown run, what bloodlines would you be looking for and what dosage? Another question is if you could breed horses today with any two, what two would it be?

A. The tough part about doing this is finding the bloodlines you want and then finding a yearling that is put together properly with all those traits wrapped up with a pretty little bow. THAT, is really hard to find. But having said that, my answer would be fairly simple.

I will answer both questions with the one answer.

I would want Bold Ruler and Northern Dancer.

As for the dosage, I would look to see what it was, but I am not a huge dosage guy. It is always nice when the dosage is around 4.50 or less but pretty sure with those two monsters in the bloodlines, it would probably be around that anyway.

Those two horses were and still are the gold standard for breeding.

Fun question. Thanks for asking.

We'll name it Bold Dancer

Now let's get to work lol

[JBEX]

hey str..

looked at the condition books and there are 2 races in december that have that nw3ot or oc/nw3ot condition (these 2 are the latter) .. there is a 3rd but don't think 6f a good fit.. aqu 12/8 R7 @ 1 mile and GP 12/28 R9 @ 1 1/16..both dirt of course.. want to see this guy run again.. keep you posted.. no pun intended lol

hey str

looked at the races for aqueduct on 12/8 and there's no race like that running even though they say in the condition book index that there would be

index says ..

3xmc/nw4/opt clm 80k..then they list short or long which I'm guessing is sprint or route and it's a "long"


possible it didn't fill ?

[str]

hey str

looked at the races for aqueduct on 12/8 and there's no race like that running even though they say in the condition book index that there would be

index says ..

3xmc/nw4/opt clm 80k..then they list short or long which I'm guessing is sprint or route and it's a "long"


possible it didn't fill ?

It definitely did not fill.

Short is under a mile and long is a mile or more.

[JBEX]

It definitely did not fill.

Short is under a mile and long is a mile or more.

ok str. .hopefully they'll run the scheduled race at GP later this month and he's in the field..thanks

[JBEX]

ok str. .hopefully they'll run the scheduled race at GP later this month and he's in the field..thanks

you think it's possible that all's ok and todd just wanted to have a fresh horse for gulfstream? does that make any sense for a lightly raced 4yo who just got through n2xot at saratoga in his 5th career start ..have to think no and again understand this is all speculation

[Boner_18]

STR, glad to see this thread is still running. I see reading some old entries in this thread that you're a Tony Dutrow guy. Wondering if you know young kid Ray Handal. He worked with Dutrow some when he was coming up. Now training a string @ NYRA. I have a small interest in an outstanding young filly he's got.

I've only interacted with him a few times, seems like a good guy. Wanted to know if you have any insight on him otherwise?

[str]

you think it's possible that all's ok and todd just wanted to have a fresh horse for gulfstream? does that make any sense for a lightly raced 4yo who just got through n2xot at saratoga in his 5th career start ..have to think no and again understand this is all speculation

Q. you think it's possible that all's ok and todd just wanted to have a fresh horse for gulfstream?

A. I suppose it is but I have to be honest, I do not think I ever gave a perfectly sound winning horse time to be fresh for 6 months from now unless it was a non sweater in early May or something bizarre like that.

It is so darn hard to have them fit, sound, and winning that when they are, shutting them down seems crazy.

There almost has to be a reason behind it that pertains to the horses health, whatever that might be.

Q. does that make any sense for a lightly raced 4yo who just got through n2xot at saratoga in his 5th career start ..have to think no and again understand this is all speculation

A. Not without cause , like something I mentioned above.

I do get giving horses time when they are pointing towards dates and goals, but not a 2ot who just won with 5 lifetime starts.

[str]

STR, glad to see this thread is still running. I see reading some old entries in this thread that you're a Tony Dutrow guy. Wondering if you know young kid Ray Handal. He worked with Dutrow some when he was coming up. Now training a string @ NYRA. I have a small interest in an outstanding young filly he's got.

I've only interacted with him a few times, seems like a good guy. Wanted to know if you have any insight on him otherwise?

Yes, Tony and I go back to when he was about 12.

I do not know Ray Handel but if he worked for Tony and he uses Tony's way of doing things, chances are he will be just fine.

Tony learned from his dad Dickie, Alan Jerkins and Bobby Frankel. It is hard to top that group.

Good luck with your filly. That sounds exciting as well as promising. If your guy is like most of us were and are, you emulate many traits of those that you learned under. Keep us posted if you don't mind. We will be rooting for you.

[JBEX]

Q. you think it's possible that all's ok and todd just wanted to have a fresh horse for gulfstream?

A. I suppose it is but I have to be honest, I do not think I ever gave a perfectly sound winning horse time to be fresh for 6 months from now unless it was a non sweater in early May or something bizarre like that.

It is so darn hard to have them fit, sound, and winning that when they are, shutting them down seems crazy.

There almost has to be a reason behind it that pertains to the horses health, whatever that might be.

Q. does that make any sense for a lightly raced 4yo who just got through n2xot at saratoga in his 5th career start ..have to think no and again understand this is all speculation

A. Not without cause , like something I mentioned above.

I do get giving horses time when they are pointing towards dates and goals, but not a 2ot who just won with 5 lifetime starts.

yes I agree..makes no sense to rest a healthy fit horse and there's probably some issue with him..thanks

[str]

A special thought for Martine Bellocq, who galloped horses for me when her husband Pierre was my asst. trainer when I first started training in 1976 . Pierre's brother Remi did as well albeit briefly.

Remi Bellocq, the brother of Martine’s husband, Pierre Bellocq Jr., said that Martine suffered second- and third-degree burns over 50 percent of her body. She has been placed in a medically induced coma by doctors at UC San Diego Medical Center to undergo treatments for the burns, Remi Bellocq said.

What she tried to do with no thought to personal injury is the exact loving and caring passion for horses that so many people on the back side have.

I know I have tried to relay this passion to everyone in this thread over the years but it can never come over in words the way it does in actions.

It has been a very long time since I have spoken to or seen any of the Bellocq's but one thing was clear too me from the moment I met all three of them. And that was their love for horses and respect for the game. We were all about 21 years old at the time.

Most people like the Bellocq's treat all their horses, from the fastest one to the slowest one with all the love and care they can.

So often, the public is only privy to news items, many of which are not flattering at all. There are stories of mistreatment, deception or deceit. And while many are sadly true, I promise you those stories of those types of people are very much the exception and not the rule.

In my lifetime I have had the honor of meeting many very famous people, very wealthy people, great athletes, etc.
And plenty of those people have been kind, caring people I am sure. But there is no doubt in my mind , that as a whole, the workers and caregivers that worked on the backside were the most giving group of people I ever had the pleasure of associating with. Few had the resources to donate money but in lieu of that, they donated something even greater. They donated their heart. They donated their time for no extra pay, bought carrots or treats when they couldn't afford a steak dinner for themselves. And they donated their passion for the biggest hero's in a very tough game.

It's people like that , that make my memories of my time there as special as they are.

As I have said too many times when asked, "What do you miss most about the track"?

My answer is always the same.

I miss the people.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Good post STR. Sorry to hear about Martine. Hopefully she will be OK.

[batt33]

Good post STR,
Years ago when I would get laid off from my seasonal wildland firefighter job I would help out ( ok something to do cause I enjoyed horseracing) my cousin as she prepped horses for the 2 year old in training sales.......Yes I was an a #1 stall mucker...saddle soap applier extraordinaire..... but it was cool cause i around horses!....I remember how friendly they were/are and always watching out for me around wound up horses...well after i think my second time down there I got my first chance to hot walk a horse (one of the quiet ones) as we/they were busy...so the first time around the shed row i had the groom with me plus the exercise rider eyeing me as i turned each corner..not to mention my cousin.......well after a few minutes everyone went back to their business and i was as happy as could be... after about 4 loops we turn the corner near the office and another horse kicks a bucket....oh sh** Crystal rears up...i remember ...hearing" shake the shank give some lead...dont look at the eyes"....well I did and she calmed down........... Everyone came over..you want us to take her? No I'm good.....got some positive feedback and finished the coolout.
Afterwards I asked why I couldn't look at her eyes...answer... When the see how scared you look...they get even more agitated....not sure it it's true or not......
and on a final note the last couple of years i helped prepped we were at san luis rey.... lots of great people their.
sorry for the rambling post

[JBEX]

very sad to hear about your friend str and wish her the best..terrible tragedy for everyone affected..nice to hear however how devoted the backstretch workers are to the horses they care for.they are under appreciated by the racing public in general and nice you pay them their adeiu

just wanted to mention what a great artist pierre's dad (peb) was..the big race day's were always made a little better with his art work on the cover of the form..not only the art but he always seemed to capture the underlying theme of the race with a great sense of humor..miss seeing them to this day

[JBEX]

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/46-horses-dead-devastating-fire-san-luis-rey-downs/

[str]

Good post STR,
Years ago when I would get laid off from my seasonal wildland firefighter job I would help out ( ok something to do cause I enjoyed horseracing) my cousin as she prepped horses for the 2 year old in training sales.......Yes I was an a #1 stall mucker...saddle soap applier extraordinaire..... but it was cool cause i around horses!....I remember how friendly they were/are and always watching out for me around wound up horses...well after i think my second time down there I got my first chance to hot walk a horse (one of the quiet ones) as we/they were busy...so the first time around the shed row i had the groom with me plus the exercise rider eyeing me as i turned each corner..not to mention my cousin.......well after a few minutes everyone went back to their business and i was as happy as could be... after about 4 loops we turn the corner near the office and another horse kicks a bucket....oh sh** Crystal rears up...i remember ...hearing" shake the shank give some lead...dont look at the eyes"....well I did and she calmed down........... Everyone came over..you want us to take her? No I'm good.....got some positive feedback and finished the coolout.
Afterwards I asked why I couldn't look at her eyes...answer... When the see how scared you look...they get even more agitated....not sure it it's true or not......
and on a final note the last couple of years i helped prepped we were at san luis rey.... lots of great people their.
sorry for the rambling post

Q. When the see how scared you look...they get even more agitated....not sure it it's true or not......

A. Quite true. Once you have mastered being around horses, you WANT to look at them in the eye because your calmness will transfer as well. So will your calm voice. Voice sound, light hands, and a typically gentler touch is why females do so well around horses. When I would claim a horse, if they were super high strung or a bit wacky , or even white eyed, I would always try and get a female to be that horses groom.
That tactic worked almost every time. In most cases, the result was a better horse who therefore ran better.

As for the rambling, I loved it. Great story .

Thanks for sharing.

[str]

very sad to hear about your friend str and wish her the best..terrible tragedy for everyone affected..nice to hear however how devoted the backstretch workers are to the horses they care for.they are under appreciated by the racing public in general and nice you pay them their adeiu

just wanted to mention what a great artist pierre's dad (peb) was..the big race day's were always made a little better with his art work on the cover of the form..not only the art but he always seemed to capture the underlying theme of the race with a great sense of humor..miss seeing them to this day

I agree. Peb's drawings of big races as well as trainers, jocks, owners, etc. were great .

I will look and see what I have from him. I got to know him pretty well in the 70's which is why I hired his son and his wife along with his brother when I was forming my initial group of employees upon going out on my own.

[JBEX]

if you weren't aware though you might be interested...

http://jackfromgrittoglory.com/#2644

[str]

if you weren't aware though you might be interested...

http://jackfromgrittoglory.com/#2644

Thanks JBEX.

Stuff like that always takes me back to being in my 20's at the track.

That picture of Chris looking at Alysheba while standing him out almost made me cry.

It reminded me of being at Bowie in the mornings.

Chris was and is an awesome friend to have.

Forget the winners and success.

He never wanted to talk about that.

And back when I'm talking about, he was riding in Md. still.

He just wanted to be one of our group of about 7 or 8.

Valets, exercise boys, trainers, asst. trainers and agents.

Man we had a ball back then.

Skiing, partying, etc.

Just livin life and enjoying every minute in your 20's.

Great memories.

Thanks again JBEX !

[JBEX]

no problem str and glad it brought back some good memories for you..if I remember correctly you once said that you were successful claiming horses from jack.. would you mind saying what gave you a hint to put in a claim for one of his horses? understand if that's a little more than you want to say in here

[batt33]

Thanks STR!
Eventually after a few more times down south I actually did look a few horses in the eyes!........only the nice ones of course.

[Boner_18]

Yes, Tony and I go back to when he was about 12.

I do not know Ray Handel but if he worked for Tony and he uses Tony's way of doing things, chances are he will be just fine.

Tony learned from his dad Dickie, Alan Jerkins and Bobby Frankel. It is hard to top that group.

Good luck with your filly. That sounds exciting as well as promising. If your guy is like most of us were and are, you emulate many traits of those that you learned under. Keep us posted if you don't mind. We will be rooting for you.

Thanks STR, I own a piece through a decent syndicate, good blue collar honest people. We're ML favorite for a NYB East View Stakes. She's been training lights out.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/225300/english-soul-cause-we-are-loyal-head-east-view-stakes

Merry Xmas to all!

[str]

I wanted to be sure and wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year.

All the best to you and your family.

[JBEX]

hey str

just in case you didn't hear about it jack van berg passed away today

[str]

hey str

just in case you didn't hear about it jack van berg passed away today

Thank you JBEX.

[str]

no problem str and glad it brought back some good memories for you..if I remember correctly you once said that you were successful claiming horses from jack.. would you mind saying what gave you a hint to put in a claim for one of his horses? understand if that's a little more than you want to say in here

Sorry I never replied to this.

I somehow lost track of this.

I think you are mixing up Mr. Van Berg and Bud Delp.

I don't think I ever claimed a horse off of Mr. Van Berg. He rarely ran a horse in Md. except for the Preakness or big races.

I did not know him well at all. Think I was in a group that met him one Preakness week but that was it.

I do remember he was a story teller ( plenty of race trackers are including this one ).

From those that knew him, they spoke very highly of him.

Pretty sure it is Mr. Delp that was the HOF'er that I had a lot of success claiming off of. Below is an excerpt of post 75 explaining one reason I had success claiming his horses. And not every time at all. That is impossible. But overall I held my own.

"Bud Delp was a GREAT trainer. I am sure he forgot more about horses than I ever knew but... having worked for his arch enemy while learning the game, I was well aware of the pattern he had developed. The rules of claiming were different then. At the beginning of every meet , each owner had to run a horse at the new meet before being eligible to claim a horse at that meet.Bud would drop a few horses down for an easy win, the first day of every meet. Having figured this out, I would try to find out what the first carded race of a new meet was going to be( easier said than done). Having a couple of horses always available to run, I would do my best to get one in the first couple of races with my primary claiming owner. Then I would do my homework and attack Bud on opening day. I did this for about two years(4 meets per year). He got so damn mad at me , chased me down and threatened me once at Del. Park, saying he would put me out of business. Bud changed shortly thereafter but not because of me, he got Spectacular Bid .
There are many reasons to claim a horse but in most cases it comes down to thinking that you can improve it for whatever the reason. It is a very tough game but a lot of effort beforehand swings the odds in your favor to some extent.


This was one of several tendencies that Bud had. Having studied him before training,( watching my mentor claim against him and seeing those results up close), as well as when I did train, I gained an edge. That was one example.

I can go into more detail if you care for me to.

[JBEX]

Sorry I never replied to this.

I somehow lost track of this.

I think you are mixing up Mr. Van Berg and Bud Delp.

I don't think I ever claimed a horse off of Mr. Van Berg. He rarely ran a horse in Md. except for the Preakness or big races.

I did not know him well at all. Think I was in a group that met him one Preakness week but that was it.

I do remember he was a story teller ( plenty of race trackers are including this one ).

From those that knew him, they spoke very highly of him.

Pretty sure it is Mr. Delp that was the HOF'er that I had a lot of success claiming off of. Below is an excerpt of post 75 explaining one reason I had success claiming his horses. And not every time at all. That is impossible. But overall I held my own.

"Bud Delp was a GREAT trainer. I am sure he forgot more about horses than I ever knew but... having worked for his arch enemy while learning the game, I was well aware of the pattern he had developed. The rules of claiming were different then. At the beginning of every meet , each owner had to run a horse at the new meet before being eligible to claim a horse at that meet.Bud would drop a few horses down for an easy win, the first day of every meet. Having figured this out, I would try to find out what the first carded race of a new meet was going to be( easier said than done). Having a couple of horses always available to run, I would do my best to get one in the first couple of races with my primary claiming owner. Then I would do my homework and attack Bud on opening day. I did this for about two years(4 meets per year). He got so damn mad at me , chased me down and threatened me once at Del. Park, saying he would put me out of business. Bud changed shortly thereafter but not because of me, he got Spectacular Bid .
There are many reasons to claim a horse but in most cases it comes down to thinking that you can improve it for whatever the reason. It is a very tough game but a lot of effort beforehand swings the odds in your favor to some extent.


This was one of several tendencies that Bud had. Having studied him before training,( watching my mentor claim against him and seeing those results up close), as well as when I did train, I gained an edge. That was one example.
I can go into more detail if you care for me to.

I

if I'm understanding correctly you're saying that in order to claim a horse out of a race you have to be running in that race.. if that's the case I didn't know that

[JBEX]

I

if I'm understanding correctly you're saying that in order to claim a horse out of a race you have to be running in that race.. if that's the case I didn't know that

not the sharpest pencil in the can sometimes.. get what you mean... you've got to run in a race before his that day so you can put a claim in for one of his that day

[str]

not the sharpest pencil in the can sometimes.. get what you mean... you've got to run in a race before his that day so you can put a claim in for one of his that day

Yep. It was a bad rule that finally got changed.

If you ran a horse in the 1st race opening day, the only people that could claim off you were the other people in that race. If you ran one in the last, you could not claim until the last race that day. Each owner became eligible on there own by running.
So you could see why Bud took a huge edge by doing that. He also had an "in" with the racing Secretary so he knew which race was going to be the 1st and 2nd. But the racing secretary had a pattern as well so I had a pretty good idea after I figured it out. ( I know, get a life. Lol. But man, back then being 21 and competing against those older guys, that WAS my life).
I bet I caught Bud cheating with a claimer opening day every meet except Timonium for 2 years. Man did he finally boil over at me one summer. Lol, was he pissed. I never stopped though, but did slow down some. The rule changed a couple of years after that I think. Ah, good times.

[JBEX]

speaking of him being pissed remember you said it was the jockey's (ronnie franklin?) ride that cost spectacular bid the triple crown.. was he like 1-9 in that race? can't imagine how painful that had to be.. funny thing about that though is back then it was a regular occurrence but still something special.. I bet it made quite a difference when
they set the stallion fee.. you think that cost him a bunch going forward along the lines of not being the trainer of a tc winner?

[str]

speaking of him being pissed remember you said it was the jockey's (ronnie franklin?) ride that cost spectacular bid the triple crown.. was he like 1-9 in that race? can't imagine how painful that had to be.. funny thing about that though is back then it was a regular occurrence but still something special.. I bet it made quite a difference when
they set the stallion fee.. you think that cost him a bunch going forward along the lines of not being the trainer of a tc winner?

He was 1-5 in the Belmont. Only remember because of the people who lost a bet on him that were upset.

Yes, Ronnie rode him and yes, Ronnie's inexperience with the Belmont track size lead to a premature move that cost him the race. The horse also stepped on a pin and had the pin embedded into his hoof sometime overnight and Mo, the groom, found him that way the next morning holding his foot up in the air.
No, losing that race cost him very little in the end IMO. As a 4 year old, he won all nine races he ran in and set 5 track records doing it. I think some were world records and I think some still stand. Not positive though.
When I think of the greatest horses of all time, he is high on the list and above some triple crown winners.
I don't think his stud fee was affected at all by that loss. A year later, after what he did as a 4 year old, everybody knew how good he was.

[JBEX]

amazing horse and read his initial stud fee was 150k and he was syndicated for $22M..said he was a dissapointment as a sire although his daughters produced 69 stakes winners including european sprint champion mozart..read this little excerpt from wikipedia also..

Spectacular Bid was sent to stud at Claiborne Farm, which is where Secretariat was also sent to stud. Secretariat's paddock at Claiborne Farm bordered three other stallions: Drone, Sir Ivor, and Spectacular Bid. Secretariat did not pay much attention to Drone or Sir Ivor, but he and Spectacular Bid became friendly and occasionally raced each other along the fence line between their paddocks.

gotta love it

[str]

amazing horse and read his initial stud fee was 150k and he was syndicated for $22M..said he was a dissapointment as a sire although his daughters produced 69 stakes winners including european sprint champion mozart..read this little excerpt from wikipedia also..

Spectacular Bid was sent to stud at Claiborne Farm, which is where Secretariat was also sent to stud. Secretariat's paddock at Claiborne Farm bordered three other stallions: Drone, Sir Ivor, and Spectacular Bid. Secretariat did not pay much attention to Drone or Sir Ivor, but he and Spectacular Bid became friendly and occasionally raced each other along the fence line between their paddocks.

gotta love it

I think that if Secretariat thinks he was all that, I should as well. Lol.

[harthebar]

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/201...k-six-bad-beat

happy new year , str hope all is well

[harthebar]

I think that if Secretariat thinks he was all that, I should as well. Lol.

just reading your comments , and it made me remember , a jockey... friend of the family...eddie maple .....was on Secretariat i think.....hhim and his agent (spike ) thats what they called him i think......lol used to come our house for dinner , i was just a young young boy back when atlantic city race course was a big track ...