Horse Racing questions and answers

[str]

str, the Preakness won't have the pace of the Derby. Do you think the lightly raced Bodemeister knows how to build in a breather, or is this horse more likely to go all out again and hope nobody catches him?

Just as we saw Hansan take baby steps towards trying to relax in the Gotham only to have it undone in his next start, Bodemeister will be asked to do the same. Since Blinkers Off, Baffert really worked on getting him to flash early. I am sure that he has pointed his efforts towards settling him down since the Derby. You can only do so much but every little bit helps. Two things I read paint the picture for me in my head.

1. I read that Bodemeister cooled out quickly ( 30 minutes) after the Derby. When that happens to a speed horse it typically indicates that when he slowed down in the final 1/8th of the Derby, he was not exhausted, he was winded. There is a really big difference. Exhausted leaves a horse worn down and it will show in his eating habits as well as how often he lays down compared to his normal habits. It will also show in his jogs and gallops as well as his walking the shed row.
Winded is a very quick recovery . The horse simply lost lung capacity for a short period of time . After regaining his wind, he was fine.

2. I read where Baffert and Smith settled on a strategy in the Derby that if Bode broke well and had a chance to make the lead, the would allow that to happen. That strategy is implemented or not within the first 3-4 seconds of the race. Once you choose that route, you can not change your mind. That will not be the case this time. Every thought pre race with no other pace in the race, will be getting to the lead with minimum early effort and as relaxed as possible. Cutting a 47. 20 half or slower while solo is their wish. All focus will be on that IMO.

[str]

I have a question also. Like Dark Horse said, this race will be different. No early speed horse like Trinninberg. Could I'll Have Another be sent up early this time to try to run with Bodemeister? It might create a different kind of race. If those 2 horses dueled down the stretch and tired, another horse might come from a little farther back and catch them both. Could you see that possibly happenning? None of the horses that were in the Derby were able to do that within the distance of the Preakness, yet there was a lot more traffic.

O'Neill and the young rider would really put themselves in a bad position if they tried that and it failed. Also, that is rarely decided on race day. In most cases it is the preparation towards the race that will show on race day. They have not tried to drill speed into the horse since the Derby , and would have been questioned at length if they did, so I don't see that as a strategy going in. Also, the speed the Bode flashed and the way he did what he did does not suggest that I'll have another can lay anywhere near Bode unless Bode let's him IMO.

[sandyw123]

Thanks! I'm glad that Bode wasn't exhausted by his Derby race. I'd really like to see him win the next race, just don't see any horse in the field fast enough to beat him. So do you think his not racing as a 2 year old might have been a plus for him? I've heard it said that his not racing at 2 was a negative, but it's making me wonder if it's not true in his case.

[sandyw123]

I have another question about Daddy Nose Best. He won the Sunland Derby at 1 1/8 of a mile in a fast time, didn't do well in the Derby. He hasn't had a workout since before the Derby, and it wasn't very sharp. Is this a bad sign for the horse?

[str]

Thanks! I'm glad that Bode wasn't exhausted by his Derby race. I'd really like to see him win the next race, just don't see any horse in the field fast enough to beat him. So do you think his not racing as a 2 year old might have been a plus for him? I've heard it said that his not racing at 2 was a negative, but it's making me wonder if it's not true in his case.

Probably not a plus . In a perfect world I would think that it would have been better but with young horses you play with the hand you were dealt so they made do as best they could.

[str]

I have another question about Daddy Nose Best. He won the Sunland Derby at 1 1/8 of a mile in a fast time, didn't do well in the Derby. He hasn't had a workout since before the Derby, and it wasn't very sharp. Is this a bad sign for the horse?

I think that you mean he did have a work but it was real slow. If that is the question, I would say no, it is not a bad sign. Just about all of the Derby horses have only run a bit through the lane or picked up the pace from the 1/8th pole to the 7/8ths pole basically just a little leg stretching at a key point on the track to give them the thought of running on through the stretch . With only 14 days and off a mile and a 1/4, a fitness work is not in play, just a little bit of an open gallop or 1/8th mile run off. I see 53 for a half mile but would venture to guess that he went 27+ and 25+ or something like that. No more was asked for I am sure.

[Dark Horse]

Thanks for insight on Bode, str. Winded versus exhausted is very helpful. Baffert commented on it, but I didn't know it was that big. I suppose level of post race tiredness combined with time to next race could be a valuable tool, but I would have no idea how to measure the level of tiredness.

The Preakness looks deceptively simple. Unless Bodemeister is coming back too fast, I think he runs another 108 Beyer, and nobody in this field can match that.

[sandyw123]

Thanks for answering my questions, str. I've been over the past performances of the horses. I'm leaving Went the Day Well out of my 4, probably a mistake, but I'm wondering if he could be a better Belmont horse - by the way he finished in the Derby. He just looked like he could have kept running after Bode and I'll Have Another reached their distance limit. I guess I'll box Bode, I'll Have Another, Daddy Nose Best, and Teeth of the Dog.

[str]

I'll have another really did not catch Bodemeister in the Derby, Bodemeister ran out of gas IMO. In todays race, just the opposite happened. Bodemeister had it go exactly as his connections wanted it to. He got a 47 3/5s half and had everything he needed to run a winning race. It is not often in the Preakness that a legit speed horse will get that slow a 1/2 mile with minimal effort and get caught. And he did run a winning race, but I'll have another ran a better one. In today's race, IHA ran down Bode . You have to give both horses a lot of credit for their efforts but unlike the Derby where Bode IMO ran an overall better race, IHA most certainly did today. He ran lights out to be able to catch Bode.

I don't know if anyone saw or can pull up the photo of the two that was taken but it had in it something that is rarely seen. If anyone can pull it up, take a look at Bode's ears and they are pinned back in the photo as he gives it all he can. Now look at IHA's ears and you will see that they are straight up. At the wire IHA was already in "play around" mode upon making the lead. It is rare to see a photo that has a horse already looking around for someone else to run at.
Too say that he ran very well today is an understatement. Today's effort, probably more so than Bode's 2 weeks ago was outstanding IMO.

[sandyw123]

I'll Have Another ran a great race! I just wonder if he'll be able to win at 1 1/2 miles. It's very possible, because he's been able to handle every distance he's been asked to so far (except for on a muddy track). And he's just a really strong looking horse. I was really surprised at Went the Day Well's poor showing today, didn't expect that, especially not after his good race in the Derby. I'm curious as to what horses will be entered in the Belmont. Union Rags (probably with another rider?) and Dullahan will be in it. I'm wondering about Zetterholm and Teeth of the Dog.

[Dark Horse]

I don't know if anyone saw or can pull up the photo of the two that was taken but it had in it something that is rarely seen. If anyone can pull it up, take a look at Bode's ears and they are pinned back in the photo as he gives it all he can. Now look at IHA's ears and you will see that they are straight up. At the wire IHA was already in "play around" mode upon making the lead. It is rare to see a photo that has a horse already looking around for someone else to run at.
Too say that he ran very well today is an understatement. Today's effort, probably more so than Bode's 2 weeks ago was outstanding IMO.

passing Creative Cause


going for Bode


ears back


'hey, how ya doing?'


'anybody wants another?'

[str]

passing Creative Cause


going for Bode


ears back


'hey, how ya doing?'


'anybody wants another?'

Thank you. I really wish there was a way to find the official photo used to determine the winner. It really showed what I am talking about although this does somewhat.

[Dark Horse]

Wish I knew which one you meant. Looking at hundreds of photos.

[str]

Wish I knew which one you meant. Looking at hundreds of photos.

That one shows it . I was talking about the black and white that the track prints and posts after all photos but that angle shows what I am talking about just fine.
Thanks so much.

[Dark Horse]

First question, in preparation for the Belmont. How much did that superb effort take out of I'll Have Another? He'll be going up against well rested horses. He came back on two weeks rest without any negative signs, but can a horse truly be fully rested just two weeks later, and if not, does that previous lack of rest carry over into the next three weeks? Or would you consider this three week window plenty of rest after he just showed he could handle two weeks?

[str]

First question, in preparation for the Belmont. How much did that superb effort take out of I'll Have Another? He'll be going up against well rested horses. He came back on two weeks rest without any negative signs, but can a horse truly be fully rested just two weeks later, and if not, does that previous lack of rest carry over into the next three weeks? Or would you consider this three week window plenty of rest after he just showed he could handle two weeks?

Besides running against the best 3 year old's and catching some freshened horses along the way,the length of time between and the 3 different venues is what makes the triple crown a true test of a champion.
Will 2 weeks catch up too him in the Belmont? It certainly could, but honestly, it has not caught up to many of the previous horses that won the 1st two lately IMO. It did not seem to affect those horses although we assume various reasons for their defeats, those assumptions could be all wrong. The people that already know the early answers to this are the caretakers for IHA. Did he eat up after the Preakness? I saw where O'Neill said he did but he never would have said he did not. So, we really don't know. One glimpse into it will be if they stay with the identical training program for IHA for the 1st week or 10 days. No reason to deviate from what worked in Baltimore so being able to compare the 1st week will be a big help. He shipped at the same time after the race so let's see what takes place this week.
The carry over of tired as you asked it is the main focus for O'Neill. Does he back off or keep going or do the unthinkable and train harder before the Belmont?
Lucian Lauren decided to take a bold stance and push Secretariat harder after the Preakness, was chastised for it before the race and the horse was declared the greatest afterwards. It is a break even or lose position that the trainer is put in by the media and the swarm of critics waiting to jump on what they see as flawed management. Barclay Tagg did it with Funny Cide and was widely criticized for working him too far before the Belmont. Being a Frank Whiteley protege, of course Barclay was going to do that. But those Monday morning trainers thought it was not wise after he got beat , so they beat Barclay up about that. We will just have to wait and see.
The horse can be fully rested for both starts as he was for the Preakness . It will be the overall wear and tear of physically tired that will come in to play after the Belmont. Do remember what those idiot owners did with Seattle Slew. By the end of the Belmont , IHA will probably need 60-75 days to really recover fully(hopefully) and run a prep for the B.C. assuming he stays sound.
Too be clear, the 2 weeks and the 3 weeks is not really ample time, it is a given for trainers that if they are a major player after the 1st leg, they are approaching the triple crown as a 5 week , 3 race series. Once it is over, they will reassess.

[Dark Horse]

Thanks str. By the way, I've been copying and pasting all the way. You pretty much have a book here. lol Just needs some editing.

[Balco10]

Anyone have any tips on Aussie A & B tonight?

[sandyw123]

I just haven't had info on the Australian races, don't know what would be a good online information source (that's hopefully free). You think there would have to some past performance data available for races there, as there is in the states. I've looked at past performances of possible runners in the Belmont and just don't see much hope for most of the horses in the race, particularly the newcomers, other than Street Life. He could be a 3 or 4 horse (maybe). He's not run a bad race, except for his 1st one, which was at 6 furlongs. His last race was the Peter Pan Stakes where he finished 3rd, and he looked to be gaining ground at the end of the race. Not familiar with his trainer, Chad Brown I believe. I'm hoping I'll Have Another can win one more race, but this distance is an unknown for him, as well as all the others that will be running. You just can't help but be skeptical of Union Rags, with all his past underacheiving. Whether or not J. Velasquez riding him instead of J. Leparoux makes a difference remains to be seen. What do you think? I've also looked at Rousing's Sermon's past races. He seems able to do distance, but he always seems to play follow the leader.

[str]

Anyone have any tips on Aussie A & B tonight?

Sorry, I have no access to any Aussie racing.

[str]

I just haven't had info on the Australian races, don't know what would be a good online information source (that's hopefully free). You think there would have to some past performance data available for races there, as there is in the states. I've looked at past performances of possible runners in the Belmont and just don't see much hope for most of the horses in the race, particularly the newcomers, other than Street Life. He could be a 3 or 4 horse (maybe). He's not run a bad race, except for his 1st one, which was at 6 furlongs. His last race was the Peter Pan Stakes where he finished 3rd, and he looked to be gaining ground at the end of the race. Not familiar with his trainer, Chad Brown I believe. I'm hoping I'll Have Another can win one more race, but this distance is an unknown for him, as well as all the others that will be running. You just can't help but be skeptical of Union Rags, with all his past underacheiving. Whether or not J. Velasquez riding him instead of J. Leparoux makes a difference remains to be seen. What do you think? I've also looked at Rousing's Sermon's past races. He seems able to do distance, but he always seems to play follow the leader.

Union Rags has a lot to prove . We shall see when the race shapes up some more.
I think that IHA will have to show the world that he can overcome the totally different track configuration at Belmont around two turns. The track is so different as to where the poles are located, it will be a heck of a challenge for the horse as well as the rider for sure to know where they are during the race. This is not a small thing that can be blown off as " he's the best " or anything like that. Two turns at Belmont is like nothing the horse or rider has seen or had to deal with. It has gotten much better horses than IHA beat while trying to win a triple crown IMO. The jock will need to know exactly where he is at all times. Also, if he draws inside, he can easily get boxed, or , being fearful of being boxed, move way too soon to try and establish position. Another scenario is if the race lacks speed, he could find himself close enough early to have to ride a different race.
A lot of things can go wrong for him. It will take a great effort and all the luck that he has had in the first two races to win. Again, let's see how the race takes shape in the next few days.
From a training point of view, he seems to have walked( no tack) several days after racing and vanning, and jogged today. That is probably the identical training program that he had for the Preakness. That, is a positive so far. Let's see what he looks like going once around the right way tomorrow.

[sandyw123]

Thanks! I could see the pace being a lot slower, with the absence of an early speed horse like Bodemeister. This will be just a totally different situation for I'll Have Another and his rider. Still there isn't a clear advantage to any of the horses, because not one of them has ever run a 1 1/2 mile race. I have to say that I'll be more surprised if I'll Have Another wins than if he doesn't, just because of the history of this particular race.

[Dark Horse]

Hard not to stratch one's head at the logic behind this. As reported by drf:

I’ll Have Another will be forced to make a subtle, but perhaps significant, equipment change when he tries to become racing’s 12th Triple Crown winner in the 144th Belmont Stakes on June 9, not because his connections want to, but because they are being required to do so by Belmont Park stewards.

In both the Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes, I’ll Have Another has raced with a Flair Equine Nasal Strip across his nose, similar to the Breathe Right strips popular with some human athletes. He also wore a nasal strip when he won the Robert Lewis Stakes and Santa Anita Derby, and last summer at Del Mar, when he finished second in the Best Pal Stakes.

However, stewards at New York Racing Association racetracks, which includes Belmont Park, have decided not to allow nasal strips. This is not a New York State Racing and Wagering Board rule, nor even a Belmont Park house rule. It is a decision made by the stewards.

Dr. Ted Hill, the Jockey Club steward at Belmont Park, said the nasal strip issue has been reviewed a number of times and said the problem is how to regulate its use.

Changes for blinkers, bar shoes, and Lasix, for instance, are announced in New York. Changes regarding other equipment, such as shadow rolls, tongue ties, and bits, are not denoted. But all of those items are allowed.

Curiously, nasal strips are permitted in New York for harness racing. But the line has been drawn in Thoroughbred racing at NYRA tracks.

“If it’s really going to help the horse that much, to be fair and consistent, we have to regulate it,” Hill said. “That’s always been the issue.”

Part of the issue, Hill said, is what to do with a horse who was scheduled to wear a nasal strip if the strip comes off in the paddock or at the gate, perhaps because of wet weather. Further, Hill said there has not been a clamor among New York horsemen to use it.

“We’ve never had someone say, ‘What can we do here because we’d like to use this product?’ ” Hill said. “There’s really been no push for it.”

Doug O’Neill, the trainer of I’ll Have Another, on Friday said that although he believes the nasal strip is “a safe, natural piece of equipment for the horse, I completely respect the New York rules and will not use one.”

Flair, the company that makes the equine nasal strip, argues that its product is humane in that it promotes better lung function and helps alleviate the need for anti-bleeding medication, such as Lasix. The company says the strips “provide drug-free support and protection of the respiratory system of the hard-working equine athlete,” and said eight clinical studies show that the strips “reduce airway resistance, reduce lung stress and bleeding, reduce fatigue, and shorten post-exercise recovery time.”

Dr. James R. Chiapetta, a veterinarian who is the president of Flair LLC, contacted the Belmont Park stewards earlier this week in an attempt to change their position, but was unsuccessful.

“The strips make no more difference in the outcome of a race than do horseshoes, tongue ties, figure eight bridles, or other equipment horsemen are permitted to use,” Chiapetta said in a statement released by Flair on Friday. “The strips, however, are designed to protect horses’ lungs so they can stay healthier.”

According to Chiapetta, the strips “are scientifically proven to reduce lung bleeding and can reduce bleeding as much as the drug Lasix/Salix when horses are running to fatigue.”

This decision goes to a larger aspect of racing, the varying rules that are in each state regarding equipment and medication. For instance, the states that play host to the Triple Crown races have different rules on adjunct bleeder medication. It is legal to use such products in Kentucky and Maryland, but not in New York, where only Lasix, now known as Salix, is allowed.

If there was a major advantage everybody would use it. In reality, nobody is pushing for it, yet the strip is banned because of a possible major advantage? Nah. Not buying that one.

The strip has similar results as Lasix/Salix, but in a natural way. So who benefits?
(Ironic that O'Neill is the one with a suspension coming, while he uses a natural product here that appears to be pushed to the side by a not so natural product. )

Can you comment on this, str? I'm simply amazed that stewards would have this kind of power over what legal products are allowed and not allowed. At the very least one would expect a strong argument in such cases. Not some explanation that makes no sense at all.

And an article on the timing of the O'Neill suspension, even after basically finding him innocent: http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...cal-board.aspx

Just amazing. A possible TC winner and people are falling over each other to darken the story. Never come across a sport so willing to shoot itself in the foot, or so far removed from the way other sports organized and streamlined themselves. If I were Doug O'Neill I'd have two 24/7 guards by IHA's stable by now.

[str]

Hard not to stratch one's head at the logic behind this. As reported by drf:



If there was a major advantage everybody would use it. In reality, nobody is pushing for it, yet the strip is banned because of a possible major advantage? Nah. Not buying that one.

The strip has similar results as Lasix/Salix, but in a natural way. So who benefits?
(Ironic that O'Neill is the one with a suspension coming, while he uses a natural product here that appears to be pushed to the side by a not so natural product. )

Can you comment on this, str? I'm simply amazed that stewards would have this kind of power over what legal products are allowed and not allowed. At the very least one would expect a strong argument in such cases. Not some explanation that makes no sense at all.

And an article on the timing of the O'Neill suspension, even after basically finding him innocent: http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...cal-board.aspx

Just amazing. A possible TC winner and people are falling over each other to darken the story. Never come across a sport so willing to shoot itself in the foot, or so far removed from the way other sports organized and streamlined themselves. If I were Doug O'Neill I'd have two 24/7 guards by IHA's stable by now.

Q. If there was a major advantage everybody would use it. In reality, nobody is pushing for it, yet the strip is banned because of a possible major advantage? Nah. Not buying that one.

A. I cannot possibly tell you the REAL REASONS behind why they decided this. They will tell you basically all the B.S. that they did, while the makers of the nose strip will tell you about the 8 scientific studies that showed it worked . Of course, they fail to mention the 12 studies that showed it did not work.
The bottom line here is , and this is my opinion, that N.Y. has long played by there own better than everyone else, my way or the highway rules. This is nothing new. I am pretty sure that I previously wrote here on how N.Y. used to not allow lasix when everyone else did. They boldly stated that they ran on hay and oats. When I ran my 1st horse up there ( shipped in for the day only) , my asst. trainer was given a menu of drugs that we could select from to help with possible bleeding. He called me from a pay phone at the track kitchen, (yes, the phone had been invented by then, but only Maxwell Smart had a cell phone back then), and started reading these drugs too me . I felt like I was at the House of Pancakes and had 8 pages of menu to sift through. What a joke ! Hay, oats, and stuff that I would have had to have graduated from Penn vet school to know what the hell they were.
If you get the feeling that they are playing to a home court advantage, yes, in all probability they are. Does this have something to do with O, Neill's positives and they are trying to show how clean N.Y. is? Absolutely !
The one thing that I have not seen mentioned yet is the tremendous amount of jealousy that goes with the EAST coast, West coast rivalry. Is this a subtle ploy to keep a west coast horse from possibly winning a triple crown? Being the NYRA skeptic that I am, and with plenty of good reason over the years, I would not doubt it. Also, these were around when I trained and became a fad for maybe a year but fizzled out because, at the end of the day, they really did not seem to work much at all, if any.

Q. The strip has similar results as Lasix/Salix, but in a natural way. So who benefits?
(Ironic that O'Neill is the one with a suspension coming, while he uses a natural product here that appears to be pushed to the side by a not so natural product. )

A. Don't believe for a New York minute that the strip has anything close to similar results to Lasix. That is just flat out wrong. It is my opinion that his positives are the driving force behind this ruling. This is more of a head game for O'Neill than it is anything for IHA. The horse will not miss it.

Q. Can you comment on this, str? I'm simply amazed that stewards would have this kind of power over what legal products are allowed and not allowed. At the very least one would expect a strong argument in such cases. Not some explanation that makes no sense at all.

A. The Stewards do have complete authority to make this ruling . The process would be to appeal there ruling and fight it in front of the Commission and if that failed, circuit court, but time will not allow for that. Because it is not spoken too , it is wide open for them to say whatever they want.
In reading the article, they mentioned that certain things like shadow rolls , tongue ties and bits were not announced when there was a change and these nose strips are not either. I also think that I commented on " if I wanted to stiff a horse , there are many ways I could do so without having to rely on the jockey doing it in the public view". Leaving off the tongue tie, shadow roll or changing the bit, depending on the horse,and the situation could play a major roll in doing this. Not on all horses, but certainly some. Having said that, a trainer could very well put the rider as well as other riders in harms way by pulling this stunt, so while not a very smart move, and with other more subtle ways that would never be detected, it would not make sense to do these things. Also, leaving the blinkers on but totally changing the cup configuration, is another way. The list is endless.
The only REAL way to make this right is to totally make it all public. The paddock judge for each race, sees the equipment subtle changes like shadow roll etc. and will note these. He /she will even come over and verify these changes on occasion while saddling, to make sure you are aware of it. Changes should be documented during entry and printed on the program for all too see. It's not really hard at all.

Q. And an article on the timing of the O'Neill suspension, even after basically finding him innocent: http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...cal-board.aspx

A. There are no easy answers that I can offer here as much, as I would like too. As you must know by now, my complete and total disdain for cheating with drugs in this great game is one of several reasons that I decided to retire from a game that I loved as much as anyone . It was without a doubt , one of the toughest things that I had to do. With all that has gone on in the drug and treatment arena since I left, I am nowadays , way behind in the field of understanding what treatments COULD cause whatever type of overages or reactions. Like I said previously, there are plenty of people who know exactly what was and was not given to all of the O'Neill horses. If people that knew what to look for and what questions to ask, really wanted to know, they could find out . That, I am certain of.

Q. Just amazing. A possible TC winner and people are falling over each other to darken the story. Never come across a sport so willing to shoot itself in the foot, or so far removed from the way other sports organized and streamlined themselves. If I were Doug O'Neill I'd have two 24/7 guards by IHA's stable by now.

A. I would be stunned if he did not have around the clock guards for IHA. That has been going on for many decades. I feel certain that he does. As for the sport stumbling over itself, back in the late 70s I became very close friends for a while with Frank Defrancis. We sat on the horsemans board and worked weekends back then well into the evening many nights while dealing with the bute, lasix and other drug questions that were so prominent at the time. He really liked me and in the couple of years that we were working together, he taught me sooooo much. He bought Laurel Raceway , renamed it Freestate and really tried to clean the sport up. My wife and I would have dinner with him at Freestate and if some crazy longshots with a fishy late flurry of betting would win, he would jump up from the table , run to the jocks area and lay those guys out while trying to make the game right. It took great courage on his part and being young at the time, I did nor fully appreciate what he was trying too do until years later. He really did try and care for the fan. Moreso than any other person I ever met. What a great man he was.

My comment:

Sadly, the sport does find itself decades behind in the streamlining of it's own sport. We have all seen what the NFL has accomplished as well as other sports. The problem with racing is that, while a triple crown winner might be a great story for the game, it does not help the individuals that own the various tracks in a tangible enough way too each, to make it vitally important to each track owner or governing body. Saratoga will be packed again this year whether he wins or not. So will the other places that have been packed. Smaller tracks will continue to struggle either way as well. These track owners( the vast majority) could care less about each other. They only care for themselves. And sadly, few if any have Franks desire to make it about what it should be about, the fans! Being separate businesses within the game, there is at least some merit to that from a pure business standpoint, but it starts and ends with that point and as we all know, it should not. But fixing racing starts with the players that control it. The fans want it, some horseman want it, every fan wants it. The majority of owners however do not. Until such a time that the owners want it or their power is taken away by someone or some thing that can not be bribed , bought or convinced to take an action for the benefit of the few, instead of the game, it will not change.
People that truly love the game will continue to love it, and hope for it, and support it as well they should do. What you can not let happen is to let the majority of the press, who we all know only reports to us the negative side of anything, let you feel badly about a game you care for. You also can not let the majority of track owners, who for years tried to make my blood boil because of their greed and stupidity make you feel less about the game. Because we can not control these things, we need to direct our energy towards the things that we can control. It "is" just amazing that a dark story is trying to cloud over what for so many reasons is a good one, but did O'Neill bring this on the sport as well as himself? I just don't have enough information to responsibly comment on it other than to say that in the 7,000 plus horses that I ran, I never had one of them test for too much TCO2. There almost assuredly is a reason for that.

[Dark Horse]

Thanks for shedding light on that. So basically not having the nasal strip won't make much difference.

I had heard about the East/West coast rivalry. Just never realized it was serious enough not to want a Triple Crown winner from the West. (kind of weird with most horses from Kentucky).

[str]

Thanks for shedding light on that. So basically not having the nasal strip won't make much difference.

I had heard about the East/West coast rivalry. Just never realized it was serious enough not to want a Triple Crown winner from the West. (kind of weird with most horses from Kentucky).

No . It really won't . Kind of like not being able to wear your lucky socks for a game. It's all in your head . IHA will not miss it. If he gets beat, it will not be from that.

It is not at all where they are bred unless you are a breeder. Do you remember the cynical comment in the movie Secretariat about him being a Va. Bred? If you are a Ky. horse breeder it means the world , but only in those circles.

As for this, it is all about where they train and who is training them.

[sandyw123]

This is an interesting topic. I wondered too if I'll Have Another would be affected by not having the strip, but do you think if he hadn't used it in his first major races that he might be more fatigued now? These races have taken a lot out of horses. I really don't see anything wrong with a nasal strip that helps prevents bleeding in the lungs, unlike milkshaking which ultimately breaks down the horses. I wonder if most horses should use the strip to protect their lungs while racing. Just don't see a big deal with that.

[str]

This is an interesting topic. I wondered too if I'll Have Another would be affected by not having the strip, but do you think if he hadn't used it in his first major races that he might be more fatigued now? These races have taken a lot out of horses. I really don't see anything wrong with a nasal strip that helps prevents bleeding in the lungs, unlike milkshaking which ultimately breaks down the horses. I wonder if most horses should use the strip to protect their lungs while racing. Just don't see a big deal with that.

Q. This is an interesting topic. I wondered too if I'll Have Another would be affected by not having the strip, but do you think if he hadn't used it in his first major races that he might be more fatigued now?

A. No. They just do not work to that degree at all. The makers of the product would like you to believe that, but it is simply not true. I saw no evidence that they worked at all when I was training. If they did, we all would have continued to use them in 1999 when they came out.

Q. I wonder if most horses should use the strip to protect their lungs while racing.

A. Again, they really do not do that. If they did, everyone would be for that. The fact that so few trainers use them tells you all you need to know as too there effectiveness. Not to be cynical but is the strip used to allow something underneath of it to penetrate the airways and help? I do not know but it would be interesting to find out. I hate to think in those terms but multiple positives by the same trainer makes me think that way.

The main reason that Lasix started to be used by all back when it was first allowed was because other trainers felt that those that used it were gaining an advantage. Over the years, almost everyone is now dependent on Lasix because bleeders , both sire and dam, that would not have been bred too because they were true bleeders, have been bred too and now 4+ generations later bleeders are everywhere. That is why taking Lasix away will not work. Talk about animal cruelty! It will be one big mess if that happens without weening that in over a long period of time IMO.

[sandyw123]

I'm just not very knowledgable about this. If the nasal strips were beneficial to the horses, you really would expect most trainers to use them - but they don't. I didn't know that lasix needs to be given to horses. Thanks for clearing all this up for me. And to be honest, the same thought crossed my mind that possibly Doug O'Neill would use something a little extra with the strips to give his horses a boost. I've been trying to overlook the past positive testing of O'Neill's horses, but it's a little hard.

[str]

Doug O'Neill's quotes:

“I was shocked they announced it the time they did,” O’Neill said. “I was very thrilled that they said what I had been saying all along - that there was no wrongdoing. In a way, it’s good to get all of that out of the way now and just focus on what it’s all about and it’s about the horse and this historical event.”
O’Neill said he will not decide whether to appeal that suspension - and a $15,000 fine - until after the Belmont Stakes. The CHRB announced that the suspension would not take effect until July 1 at the earliest.
“I’m not sure why I got suspended after them realizing there was no wrongdoing but we’ll figure that out after the Belmont,” O’Neill said.


Every trainer, myself included, has had to deal with the frustration of the absolute insurer rule. It's what you sign up for when you take out your trainers license. These statements leave me more skeptical than I was. I guess I was just a little too close to this type of thing.

[Dark Horse]

I don't know. The timing of this, of a 2 year old case, remains highly suspect.

I just read an article about Lava Man at O'Neill's stable in Bloodhorse magazine. May be overly simplistic to get a feel from that for who the guy is, but after reading it I don't see him as a cheater at all. Anybody can come see Lava Man, who's been guiding along IHA in all this (bumping him with his head when he got a little too excited before a race, which immediately calmed IHA down), and if a kid wants a ride on Lava Man that's not a problem either. Cheaters have something to hide. They're not as open and jovial as this guy. This trainer and stable pretty much have an open door policy. Just my impression.

Having seen the jealousy in horse racing on display, my tendency would be to question the accusing party for its peculiar timing. The IHA story is about everything that's good and inspiring in horse racing, including the jockey and the lead pony. I think O'Neill with that recent comment is playing to the public, just as the accusing party. In the court of public opinion an accusation of drugs is the same as a guilty verdict. In other words, regardless of elevated levels of whatever substance, he was not guilty of what the public thought him guilty of. The 45 day suspension is based on a sub-rule that only a small section of the public will take the trouble to learn about. In a way that sub-rule is a way for the accusing party to score an easy win in the court of public opinion. So if O'Neill points out that he was not guilty and shouldn't have been suspended that makes sense to me, but he's not directing that comment at trainers obviously.

[str]

I don't know. The timing of this, of a 2 year old case, remains highly suspect.

I just read an article about Lava Man at O'Neill's stable in Bloodhorse magazine. May be overly simplistic to get a feel from that for who the guy is, but after reading it I don't see him as a cheater at all. Anybody can come see Lava Man, who's been guiding along IHA in all this (bumping him with his head when he got a little too excited before a race, which immediately calmed IHA down), and if a kid wants a ride on Lava Man that's not a problem either. Cheaters have something to hide. They're not as open and jovial as this guy. This trainer and stable pretty much have an open door policy. Just my impression.

Having seen the jealousy in horse racing on display, my tendency would be to question the accusing party for its peculiar timing. The IHA story is about everything that's good and inspiring in horse racing, including the jockey and the lead pony. I think O'Neill with that recent comment is playing to the public, just as the accusing party. In the court of public opinion an accusation of drugs is the same as a guilty verdict. In other words, regardless of elevated levels of whatever substance, he was not guilty of what the public thought him guilty of. The 45 day suspension is based on a sub-rule that only a small section of the public will take the trouble to learn about. In a way that sub-rule is a way for the accusing party to score an easy win in the court of public opinion. So if O'Neill points out that he was not guilty that makes sense to me, but he's not directing that comment at trainers obviously.

The problem that I have with the quote is that it only takes one sentence to fully explain what the absolute insurer rule is. It's really quite simple and anyone can understand it. It is what gets all trainers suspended when there is a positive regardless if they were present or not or had any knowledge of it or not. Yes, I completely agree that those pitiful souls that want to see him fail because of mere jealousy, have brought a lot of this to light at a time when those that love the game want to bask in a positive story. The fact remains however that this is not apparently one positive but many positives for the same thing. It is the multiple positives that bother me the most. Not one positive.
Why is it that many trainers saddle thousands and thousands of horses and don't have these problems but a small percentage of guys/girls get multiple positives and can't figure out why these positives occur. If he was not party too it, he would leave no stone unturned in getting to the bottom of what caused it, or at least I would think that he would , too clear his name and preserve his reputation.. If he would speak to these efforts and give me , or anyone anything to grasp on to in terms of what he has done or is trying to do to solve the mystery, that is all that I would need and I would be his biggest advocate. But he blames the system, the timing, and anything he can while letting spin doctors tell him what too say.
My reputation meant more to me in racing than winning itself. Maybe I was wrong for that. I don't know.
At the end of the day it just sounds phony and hollow but I really hope that you are right.

[JakeLc]

ONeil is on my short list of the biggest " juicers" in racing. If him having a shot at a Triple Crown shines a light on the underbelly of racing I'm all for it.

[Dark Horse]

The problem that I have with the quote is that it only takes one sentence to fully explain what the absolute insurer rule is. It's really quite simple and anyone can understand it. It is what gets all trainers suspended when there is a positive regardless if they were present or not or had any knowledge of it or not. Yes, I completely agree that those pitiful souls that want to see him fail because of mere jealousy, have brought a lot of this to light at a time when those that love the game want to bask in a positive story. The fact remains however that this is not apparently one positive but many positives for the same thing. It is the multiple positives that bother me the most. Not one positive.
Why is it that many trainers saddle thousands and thousands of horses and don't have these problems but a small percentage of guys/girls get multiple positives and can't figure out why these positives occur. If he was not party too it, he would leave no stone unturned in getting to the bottom of what caused it, or at least I would think that he would , too clear his name and preserve his reputation.. If he would speak to these efforts and give me , or anyone anything to grasp on to in terms of what he has done or is trying to do to solve the mystery, that is all that I would need and I would be his biggest advocate. But he blames the system, the timing, and anything he can while letting spin doctors tell him what too say.
My reputation meant more to me in racing than winning itself. Maybe I was wrong for that. I don't know.
At the end of the day it just sounds phony and hollow but I really hope that you are right.

There's a time to hold O'Neill accountable, if he's defying the odds of the number of positives. And there's a time to celebrate the achievements of a possible TC winner. Unless IHA set off the drug alarm, which is not the case, there is no reason not to keep those times separate.

I don't understand the drug system in horse racing enough to comment on it beyond that. The idea that you're innocent, yet you're still guilty makes no sense to me. I've never heard of that in Olympic drug testing, or Tour de France drug testing, or anywhere else. If elevated levels of some kind of forbidden substance can be attained through natural means, that would be a problem. Are horse trainers expected to be experts in chemistry as well?

[sandyw123]

I don't know, but O'Neill seems to be on the defensive. It makes you wonder why. I realize the timing of of the media bringing this up isn't great, but these charges weren't bogus. Some of his horses definitely tested positive. If it's as he's claimed, that he didn't know how this happenned; then he absolutely should have been looking hard for answers. You'd think he would have found those answers and done some house cleaning a long time ago.