Serious question about the Sedins...

[hockey216]

photo 2

[hockey216]

looks like he started losing balance in photo 2. here, he clearly loses his edge, and tries to regain balance by turning....

[hockey216]

clearly lost balance here. Think boychuck is just trying to shove him into boards. looks like raymond tries to use strength to not get pushed to ice and remain in that position? not sure. but looks like boychuck trying to push him down. Clearly, raymond has already lost his balance here.

[hockey216]

looks like his head is between his boychucks legs. maybe trying to stand up but cant. looks like hes trying to regain balance and remain in in this position (dunno why).

[hockey216]

in last picture, also looks like he was still in spinning around in attempt to regain balance from losing edge earlier.

here, boychuck just skates him in boards. In my opinion boychuck didn't do it that hard. did it kind of lightly. but unfortunately the position he was in contributed to the injury. im obviously not a doctor. But when raymond was on ice, it didn't look like the hit would hurt that bad. but obviously the position had something to do with it. When raymond spun around to try to regain balance he ended up with head in boychucks crotch.

would like to know your opinions (ppl here). i uploaded the photos to help people try to fairly objectively assess the situation. obviously unfortunate raymond got injured. But i'm not rushing to compare it to the horton hit. I don't think this was that intentional. I don't think boychuck even meant to hit him this hard or cause injury. just kinda happened because raymond lost balance, spun around, and then ended up with his head stuck in boychucks waist area.

But like i said, this is a tougher hit to assess. I still haven't conclusively formulated my opinion on it. I'm still reviewing the tape and formulating my opinion.

[hockey216]

also... think boychuck was just trying to push him into boards. Because raymond's head was so far between boychucks legs, it made a hit difficult in this position, and made a push difficult in this position. kind of a strange position to try to hit someone. so he just skates him into boards. didn't look like he even did it that hard. but the awkward position unfortunately contributed to the injury.

[hockey216]

this might help: good article.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/9297/lets-not-draw-parallels-between-mason-raymond-and-nathan-horton-incidents

Although i think Scott Burnside is an idiot that doesn't know hockey... he discusses the statements made by NHL executive Mike Murphy regarding the hit...

"
The series supervisor, NHL executive Mike Murphy, told ESPN.com on Tuesday that the league believes the Game 6 play, which did not result in a penalty to Boychuk, was called correctly on the ice. As a result, there will be no supplemental discipline to Boychuk.
We have watched the Boychuk/Raymond play over and over. The puck was in the area when the two players engaged between the Boston net and the corner. Raymond ended up bent over facing Boychuk, and their shared momentum carried Raymond backward into the boards. We have looked for the telltale end-of-play shove that sometimes turns routine checks into dangerous checks, but we don't see it.
The league believes the play was a standard defensive-zone coverage maneuver, and the officials' view afforded them a good look at the play and it was called correctly."

[mike-dub]

its kind of hard not to think of the horton hit when watching this. this happened behind the play and like you said, he didnt even have the puck. boychuk could have stopped driving him at any second since he had much more time to think and stop unlike the rome hit where it was a fraction of a second after the pass. im sure boychuk didnt mean to injure raymond this serious but he did, just like rome didnt mean to knock out horton. its also hard for a guy like mason raymond whos 40lbs less than boychuk, regain balance unless boychuk lets up. the uselessness of this move, the timing of it and the seriousness of the injury and not a call on the play. and now im hearing rumours that horton might actually suit up tomorrow and play(after they said he wouldnt be playing for months) while our guy sits? like roenick said, the league is a joke. there is no clear concise rule to discipline players. one guy gets nothing, while one guy gets a week and another guy gets 2 games...

[mike-dub]

this might help: good article.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/9297/lets-not-draw-parallels-between-mason-raymond-and-nathan-horton-incidents

Although i think Scott Burnside is an idiot that doesn't know hockey... he discusses the statements made by NHL executive Mike Murphy regarding the hit...

i saw that earlier which made me question it even more. i guess this will be like canucks' version of "the biting incident". bruins fans felt there shouldve been retribution on that, and canucks fans will feel we need retribution for this. hopefully we can respond in the same manner as bruins did and leave all this dirty bs out of game 7! cheers

[pinchylarue]

raymond broke his ass

[hockey216]

its kind of hard not to think of the horton hit when watching this. this happened behind the play and like you said, he didnt even have the puck. boychuk could have stopped driving him at any second since he had much more time to think and stop unlike the rome hit where it was a fraction of a second after the pass. im sure boychuk didnt mean to injure raymond this serious but he did, just like rome didnt mean to knock out horton. its also hard for a guy like mason raymond whos 40lbs less than boychuk, regain balance unless boychuk lets up. the uselessness of this move, the timing of it and the seriousness of the injury and not a call on the play. and now im hearing rumours that horton might actually suit up tomorrow and play(after they said he wouldnt be playing for months) while our guy sits? like roenick said, the league is a joke. there is no clear concise rule to discipline players. one guy gets nothing, while one guy gets a week and another guy gets 2 games...

Horton is not playing for game 7. I don't know who you heard those rumors from. But whoever started them probably isn't in the bruins organization. He has a severe concussion. He is traveling with team because if team wins cup, it wouldn't be fair to hoist it without him. Horton has a right to be there in the locker room celebration and be in the photos taken after the game if bruins pull it off. that's why he is traveling. He is not playing. Guaranteed.

and i wouldn't jump to compare the horton hit and the rome hit. They are not the same. Rome's hit was not a fraction of a second late. It was at least a second late. And it was somewhat of a blindside. I'm not sold on the blindside argument. but he still did come from horton's blind side to deliver late hit. Yes, horton should have had head up. And it was also a hit to the head, i might add. The NHL has been cracking down on hits to the head, especially late hits to the head. Sure, Horton should have had his head up, and this minimizes the foul of the hit to the head. I can see why Horton could have a piece of the blame there. Even without the high-hit problem, it was undoubtedly late. And very late, at that. It's not even close in my mind. Clearly a late hit. Rome's shoulder nailed Horton's head. Not even late by a fraction of a second. No question about it in my mind. A lot later than boychuck hit. I posted a photo, which illustrates that at the very instant boychuck started administering hit, rome virtually had the puck on his stick (maybe a millimeter or two off of it). Boychuck did not administer a high hit to the head, and the timing of the hit was right when Raymond was making effort to play puck. He missed puck because boychuck initiated contact, of course. But i don't think this constitutes a big interference penalty. If the puck's an inch off your stick and you're trying to play it, i think you're fair game to get hit. You're free to disagree. look at the photo, and you be the judge. My opinion is that the puck is SO close to his stick, that it's fair game for a hit. And the league watched the hit over and over and ruled the same thing.

The only reason the hit took so long and ended in this type of injury is because Raymond lost his balance right when boychuck initiated contact, and in a failed attempt to regain balance, he spund around, bent over, faced boychuck head on, and shoved his head in boychuck's waist, basically opening himself up for this type of hit. I don't think boychucks intention was to do a spin-o-rama and then push into the boards with Raymonds head in his waist. If Raymond just stood up tall, boychuck would have delivered a routine hit and play would have continued. If Raymond didn't lose his balance and bend over, turn around and face him, and stick his head in boychuck's waist, this wouldn't have happened.

If someone is playing the puck, or in process of playing puck at time you initiate contact, it is not interference. you can push them slowly, fast, with whatever force you want. If it's a legal hit, delivering it slow or dragging it out an extra second doesn't make a difference in my mind. Boychuck tried to finish hit, and couldn't do it normally because Raymond was twisting and bending over.

The league ruled that this was not interference because at the time he started delivering hit, puck was virtually right on Raymond's stick. And raymond was making effort to play it. Not only did league say that boychuck shouldn't be suspended, they ruled that the call on the ice was correct and it wasn't even interference. That is much different than horton hit, where puck had left his stick at least a good full second before. And Rome's shoulder drilled horton's head. And he came from horton's blind side, so horton couldn't see hit coming. I know, the blindside and high hit arguments have some weaknesses. I'm not trying to make this the main point of my argument. Either way, it was a late hit. The puck was not anywhere near horton's stick when contact was initiated. On boychuck hit, however... the puck was almost right on Raymond's stick. so i feel the situations are different.

Boychuck hit was not a late hit. could he have stopped midway through and skated away in middle of check before finishing his check? possibly. but that has no effect on the legality of the hit. and that's not what caused injury. Raymond lost his balance, bent over, faced boychuck, and stuck his head in Boychucks waist area. That is what caused the injury. Can't blame boychuck for that. Boychuck was trying to go in for a routine hit. Then raymond spun around, bent over, and stuck his head in his waist, so all boychuck could do to finish his check was to push him. boychuck wasn't trying to injure him. and it wasn't even a big hit. it was the positioning Raymond was in after his spin-o-rama duck down that caused this.

Again, i'm still not certain of my position on this. But please do not compare this to the Horton hit. They are different. One was a late hit and was a hit to the head (Rome shoulder drilled horton's head). The other was a hit that was dragged out, sure. but it was still a legal hit, and at the time of contact, puck was virtually right on Raymond's stick, and raymond was trying to play it, even if he didn't actually touch it. and Raymond did it to himself by losing balance, spinning, bending over, and stickhing his head in boychuck's waist. At time boychuck initiated contact, the puck was right next to raymond's stick. On Horton hit, at time Rome initiated contact, puck had been long gone way before that. it wasn't even close to horton's stick when this hit occured. I uploaded the photo to show this. When boychuck initiates contact, puck is right there next to raymond's stick. That is fair game for a hit in my book. especially because he tries to play it.

I'm not saying boychuck hit was squeaky clean. I'm still somewhat undecided. And i'm not saying horton hit was all that dirty. i think it was mostly late. But boychuck hit is very different from horton hit. And Vancouver got a lucky break with burrows not getting suspended. So, maybe this is the wash for that.

[hockey216]

And, i think refs would be more willing to give vancouver the benefit of the doubt on some calls if they didn't have a bad reputation for diving and flopping all the time. I think their bad reputation for always diving takes away their credibility, and might make refs more hesitant sometimes because they're tired of the BS. obviously this is speculation. but i think it's a plausible theory. If i was reffing a team that was always diving/flopping/embellishing... i'd get tired of the BS real quick and not give them the benefit of the doubt.

[MathewXB]

Princesses Danilella and Henrietta...................... NAME ME ONE OTHER HOCKEY PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NHL THAT WOULD ALLOW HIMSELF TO BE PUNCHED IN THE FACE 4 TIMES WITHOUT RETALIATING ??????? ( other than the pussy Canooks, of course )

Paul Kariya Anyother questions?

XB