1. #1
    Edward-RAS
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    Using closing line value to determine if a handicapper wins....

    I posted this in the service play thread but it did not garner any discussion. It appears that many here already understand and/or use this concept and maybe can add more insight to the topic.

    Closing Line Value

    This is determined by taking the difference between a line on a bet/pick when it is made and comparing it to what the line is when the game starts.

    Example: Right Angle Sports (RAS) released North Texas/Ball State Under 59.5 Wednesday 9/2/09 at 1:40pm PST. The closing line for this game was 54. Closing line value +5.50.

    This "closing line" is considered to be the most accurate line, since all available information, opinions, and money bet have been factored in to it. In general bettors with the most past success and best resources are going to bet the most, and win the most, therefore influencing the line the most. If you are consistently getting a better line than what the closing line is, you are very likely to be a long term winner, simply based on the math value of what each point is worth.

    This is one method used by sportsbooks to identify "sharp" action. It is also used by professional gamblers to measure prospects of a handicapper. This is a great tool that the general public does not utilize enough when choosing a handicapper or service to follow, in contrast to short term records, misleading hype, use of inflated unit totals, fraudulent win rates, and other deceptive marketing tactics that seem to garner so much attention and put money in the pockets of undesirable services.

    Comparing 50 plays from any handicapper against the closing line will tell you a lot more about the handicapper than wins and losses from the same group of plays. When looking at small sample sizes it is difficult to determine if the record was a result of luck, variance, or skill.

    Over the past 12 months, RAS has produced closing line values rarely seen by handicappers available to the public:

    In 2008, RAS college football picks beat the closing line by an average of 2.65 points per pick. Sides by 1.18 points per pick, and totals by 3.39 points per pick.

    In 2008-09 RAS college basketball picks beat the closing line by an average of 1.63 points per pick. Sides by 0.50 points per pick, and totals by 2.54 points per pick.

    One might say that this line movement caused solely due to us releasing the play and our followers betting it. This is true to a degree, but moving the line is one thing, holding the movement until game time is another. If the line movement created a soft line in the view of the market, opposite action would come on the other side to correct it before game time, and it sometimes does.

    Pros and Cons of Line Movement

    Pros: If you place a bet in the morning at pick'em then check back later in the day and see it is at -2.5, not only are you very likely to be sitting on a +EV (expected value) play, but you now have the option of hedging a portion of your bet to go for a middle (bets at pk and +2.5 would both win if the game lands on 1 or 2). This added value will actually improve the odds (lower the juice) on your original bet and require a lower win rate to show profit

    Example: If you place a wager on Team A (pick'em -110) $1100 to win $1000 early in the day, then later you are able to bet Team B (pick'em +120) at $500 to win $600, you would now be risking $500 to win $500 on team A and essentially erasing the juice. Bets like this would move your break even point from 52.5% (at standard -110 juice) to a much easier 50%.

    Cons: The obvious con of such line movement is that you have to place bets quickly and you may not be able to bet as much as you would like to.

    I know many will see this as a plug for RAS (and it is) but I hope that many will learn about the concept of closing line value and utilize it when deciding on which handicappers to follow.

    Questions and comments are welcomed.


    Edward
    Last edited by Edward-RAS; 09-13-09 at 12:47 PM.

  2. #2
    durito
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    Nice day yesterday Edward.

  3. #3
    InTheHole
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    It has been my experience, at least with Ferringo, that his lines (especially totals) are off EVEN at time of release so measuring this would be ambiguous at best. Ferringo suggested that he takes the average of all lines. I could get some of his totals but I am not going to pay -135 for an OVER/UNDER. And as a side note (obviously you have a vested interest in the capper you cite)---Right Angle Sports has an excellent reputation as a service play provider both on and off of SBR.

  4. #4
    xyz
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    I am just curious. In terms of total amount of bets put in on a game from the followers, how does RAS compare to John Morrison's C bets? Put it another way, which one moves the line the most?

  5. #5
    Edward-RAS
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheHole View Post
    It has been my experience, at least with Ferringo, that his lines (especially totals) are off EVEN at time of release so measuring this would be ambiguous at best. Ferringo suggested that he takes the average of all lines. I could get some of his totals but I am not going to pay -135 for an OVER/UNDER. And as a side note (obviously you have a vested interest in the capper you cite)---Right Angle Sports has an excellent reputation as a service play provider both on and off of SBR.
    Thank you and I will repeat my reply from the other thread:

    If the handicapper is not using lines that are widely available at time of release, then the honesty/integrity of that handicapper and all of his records should be brought into question. This is a critical aspect of any handicapper/client relationship.

    At RAS, we use a very conservative widely available line at time of release. If there are five books with 54 and six books with 54.5, we will still use 54 for an UNDER.

  6. #6
    InTheHole
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    And I will repeat myself

    DocSports and Robert Ferringo are the industry's leader when it comes to integrity and honesty in a rather shady business. Handicapping since 1973. Zero Complaints...awesome customer service.

  7. #7
    VegasPlayer
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheHole View Post
    It has been my experience, at least with Ferringo, that his lines (especially totals) are off EVEN at time of release so measuring this would be ambiguous at best. Ferringo suggested that he takes the average of all lines. I could get some of his totals but I am not going to pay -135 for an OVER/UNDER. And as a side note (obviously you have a vested interest in the capper you cite)---Right Angle Sports has an excellent reputation as a service play provider both on and off of SBR.
    I agree with both observations. Learned some expensive lessons from Doc's boy. Never again.

  8. #8
    InTheHole
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasPlayer View Post
    I agree with both observations. Learned some expensive lessons from Doc's boy. Never again.
    Can you provide me with examples...I have access to their records over the last five years.

  9. #9
    Edward-RAS
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheHole View Post
    And I will repeat myself

    DocSports and Robert Ferringo are the industry's leader when it comes to integrity and honesty in a rather shady business. Handicapping since 1973. Zero Complaints...awesome customer service.
    I have heard the name, but was not familiar with Ferringo. However, you are one the who said that the lines he uses were not always available, even at release time. If true this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed and is not my idea of honesty and integrity.


    Edward

  10. #10
    durito
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    Just remember that all points are not created equal.

  11. #11
    Edward-RAS
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    Quote Originally Posted by xyz View Post
    I am just curious. In terms of total amount of bets put in on a game from the followers, how does RAS compare to John Morrison's C bets? Put it another way, which one moves the line the most?
    I haven't followed Morrison's line movement enough to answer this. Perhaps someone else could. Our college football totals move about 1.5 points shortly after release, but a lot of the times they will get hit again by other betting groups, in some cases multiple times, between our release and gametime. We have had six total plays already this year that have beaten the closing line by 3.5 points or more, it takes more than just our followers to move something that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by durito View Post
    Just remember that all points are not created equal.
    Yes, good point. Some football sides that beat the closing line by a 1/2 point on/off a key number are just as strong as others that move 2 points across less key numbers.

  12. #12
    durito
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    Limits are pretty low on totals when you guys release.

    Bigger groups/players will wait for full limits to play on saturday morning. I'd imagine these moves have little to do with your plays as those come almost instantly when you release. I doubt whatever later money comes in from your clients causes much movement. But, if the market disagrees they will moved back.

    I've seen dr bob plays move lines 3pts and come back almost immediately. Others that kept moving till gametime. Limits were higher back then though.

    The morrison deal is completely different. Those aren't moving because the book respects them, they are moving just to jack up the prices on all the idiots playing them.

  13. #13
    Edward-RAS
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    Quote Originally Posted by durito View Post
    Limits are pretty low on totals when you guys release.

    Bigger groups/players will wait for full limits to play on saturday morning. I'd imagine these moves have little to do with your plays as those come almost instantly when you release. I doubt whatever later money comes in from your clients causes much movement. But, if the market disagrees they will moved back.

    I've seen dr bob plays move lines 3pts and come back almost immediately. Others that kept moving till gametime. Limits were higher back then though.

    The morrison deal is completely different. Those aren't moving because the book respects them, they are moving just to jack up the prices on all the idiots playing them.
    We release totals on Thursday afternoon. I believe the limits are quite sufficient for a service that charges $500 at this time. Dr Bob released a total on Wednesday of week 1, and several groups are playing totals throughout the day on Thursday. BW played his totals on Thursday during week 1 and Friday during week 2.

    I was not saying that my followers continue to bet the line down, but rather the fact that the plays do get hit multiple times even after release suggests they are high quality plays.

  14. #14
    durito
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    I didn't mean to suggest a problem with your service. Just to say that there are groups that are willing to wait for full limits, even knowing they'll get a worse line. Just sharing my observations.

    Congrats again on the great start.

  15. #15
    Edward-RAS
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    Quote Originally Posted by durito View Post
    I didn't mean to suggest a problem with your service. Just to say that there are groups that are willing to wait for full limits, even knowing they'll get a worse line. Just sharing my observations.

    Congrats again on the great start.
    Thank you, I appreciate it.

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