withdrawing large amounts using bitcoin

Mguerra25205 · 03-22-18, 07:21 AM

Grs I have a similar question to yours. I have a sportsbook payout coming for 5k and im wondering if bitcoin is going to ban me because it's coming from a sportsbook ☹? Can someone offer insight to this. They haven't sent me the payment yet to my bitcoin address. This will be my first withdrawal. I had to buy bitcoin to send the sportsbook though.

Mguerra25205 · 03-22-18, 07:22 AM

If they do ban me will i atleast be able to send the transaction to my wallet atleast ?

littlekona · 03-22-18, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by Mguerra25205

Grs I have a similar question to yours. I have a sportsbook payout coming for 5k and im wondering if bitcoin is going to ban me because it's coming from a sportsbook ☹? Can someone offer insight to this. They haven't sent me the payment yet to my bitcoin address. This will be my first withdrawal. I had to buy bitcoin to send the sportsbook though.

They wont ban you

if you send direct to coinbase they may but dont do that....send it to a middle wallet like mycelium, airbitz, bread ect and ect then to you other account....so do sports book to middle guy like i listed then to your end destination and all will be fine no worries

Bsims · 03-22-18, 10:27 AM

I don't have any advice, but something to fret about. If you are a U.S. citizen, the IRS will want you to report the funds as capital gains and require that you pay taxes on these gains.

grs123 · 03-22-18, 05:12 PM

mguerra i never used bitcoin good luck with getting your money

grs123 · 03-22-18, 05:18 PM

Bsims are you sure that if u just withdraw money from a sportsbook using bitcoin you have to report the funds as capital gain.

i never deposited using bitcoin. I deposited using moneybookers a year ago. I withdrew 5 times already using moneybookers and thats smooth as i just withdraw that and put it in my bank with no problems as gambling is legal in australia and theres no taxes on it then they said the only way i can withdraw is bitcoin.

So now i havent withrawn for 2 months and am stuck with over 200 000 in a bookie. People should just be able to withdraw there money from bookies using bitcoin to there bank with no hassles.

i have no intention of mining and want nothing to do with bitcoin which is why i never deposited or used it. i just want to withdrw the money to bitcoin then quickly get it into my bank. but maybe coinbase or the irs will wonder whats going on?

mrpapageorgio · 03-22-18, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by grs123

Bsims are you sure that if u just withdraw money from a sportsbook using bitcoin you have to report the funds as capital gain.

i never deposited using bitcoin. I deposited using moneybookers a year ago. I withdrew 5 times already using moneybookers and thats smooth as i just withdraw that and put it in my bank with no problems as gambling is legal in australia and theres no taxes on it then they said the only way i can withdraw is bitcoin.

So now i havent withrawn for 2 months and am stuck with over 200 000 in a bookie. People should just be able to withdraw there money from bookies using bitcoin to there bank with no hassles.

i have no intention of mining and want nothing to do with bitcoin which is why i never deposited or used it. i just want to withdrw the money to bitcoin then quickly get it into my bank. but maybe coinbase or the irs will wonder whats going on?

If you sell through Coinbase, they're likely going to report your sale of Bitcoin to the IRS which is why he's mentioning it. Some exchanges have not been as definitive with when they'll report your sales, but Coinbase was the one sued by the IRS so they're more likely to report for that amount.

icon · 03-22-18, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by grs123

i have no intention of mining and want nothing to do with bitcoin which is why i never deposited or used it. i just want to withdrw the money to bitcoin then quickly get it into my bank. but maybe coinbase or the irs will wonder whats going on?

CoinJar

https://www.coinjar.com/

CoinJar is one of the world's longest-running cryptocurrency exchanges that lets you buy, sell, spend and send your Bitcoin and other cryptos. Open a CoinJar today.

CoinJar is the most well-known Australian Bitcoin platform and broker.

grs123 · 03-22-18, 08:55 PM

thanks icon ill use coinjar. Thats why i posted about this so i can get any little tip i can as its a hassle to even begin the bitcoin withdrawal process.

icon are you in australia and have you withdrawn from bookies using bitcoin?
can i just withdraw straight to coinjar or will i use blockhain then coinjar?

grs123 · 03-22-18, 10:06 PM

Transacting with crypto currency

A CGT event occurs when you dispose of your cryptocurrency. Examples include when you sell, trade or exchange your cryptocurrency, convert it to a fiat currency like Australian dollars, or use it to obtain goods or services. If you make a capital gain on the disposal of a cryptocurrency, some or all of the gain may be taxed. Certain capital gains or losses that arise from the disposal of cryptocurrency that is a personal use asset may be disregarded.

i surfed the net and see that you pay tax on capital gain.
"Any financial gains made from the selling of bitcoin will generally be subject to capital gains tax (CGT) and must be reported to the ATO.

so if i withdrew 20 000 from the sportsbook to blockhain then coinjar and sell the 20000 in coinjar on the same day i put it in there should be no capital gain should there? Say it arrives on a day and i withdraw it on the same day id just have records showing that and that i had 20000 worth of bitcoin and sold it for 20000 wouldnt i? From what i see the tax on bitcoin is for people who do mining or leave it in there for a certain amount of time to get profit. just moving it quickly from the sportsbook to bank shouldnt see any capital gain and thus no worries about taxes???

icon · 03-22-18, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by grs123

thanks icon ill use coinjar. Thats why i posted about this so i can get any little tip i can as its a hassle to even begin the bitcoin withdrawal process.

icon are you in australia and have you withdrawn from bookies using bitcoin?
can i just withdraw straight to coinjar or will i use blockhain then coinjar?

I am not in Australia. I'm in Canada. Yes I have withdrawn from bookies using bitcoin.

I prefer selling bitcoin on localbitcoins as its the fastest for me. Cash in hand in less than an hour.

icon · 03-22-18, 10:48 PM

Its mostly US citizens that are scared shitless because of capital gains. I do not know the laws in Australia but they couldn't possibly be as silly or as heavy handed as those of the USA.

tatetytiffany · 03-24-18, 01:24 PM

Coinbase will kick you out if your transacting with a gambling joint. Happened to me. Did not lose money but had to transfer what bitcoin I had to a different wallet.

grs123 · 03-24-18, 06:40 PM

Looks like bitcoins a hassle to anyone that actually makes a decent profit. I still havent started the process at all. You have so many bookies advertising about bitcoin. Then alot of people saying how easy it is. I assume thats because bookies like to make money off people and most people that post dont make much so then ofcourse its so simple. But why are no bookies, forums or anything saying if you make big amounts is it still as simple( surely alot would make more than 10 000 from bookies) . My whole issue with the bitcoin process is now if you have make alot of money that its going to appear as though you now have to prove to someone in the future about what you where doing with the bitcoin money. ive been doing sportsbetting for over 15 years and using moneybookers was much more conveniant as in australia gambling isnt taxed so had no worries when doing my withdrawals.
If gamblings legal in australia why are some bookies making it so the only way you can now withdraw is through bitcoin? i was with sbobet and they allowed me moneybookers and bank transfers even after they said they didnt allow australians anymore. Are some bookies only allowing bitcoin withdrawals to make it so people are hesitant to withdraw. Bookies do that in the hope peoples balances go down sometimes.

Now i will have to
join blockhain
join coinjar
send in id to blockchain
send in id to joinjar
wait a week or so for them to be verified
withdraw 1000 to blockchain move that to coinjar sell the bitcoin for approx 1000 in coinjar then withdraw it to bank
withdraw 9000 do same as above
withdraw 19000 do same as above
withdraw 19000 several times and during each time have to worry about the price changing of bitcoin and also coinjar closing my account altogether and taking my money

take a screenshot of my bookie balance
take screenshots of each bitcoin withdrawal to blockchain
take screenshots of the transfer to coinjar
take screenshots of the transfer to my bank

have to record my bitcoin transaction numbers dates amounts on paper
have to record my bet amounts due to having to prove i made my money from sportsbetting in the future

Then have to worry about ato tax people in the future wanting to know what i was doing with bitcoin...why i was transacting alot...why such big amounts.

All that because of bitcoin.

Arky · 03-25-18, 01:43 AM

You can buy gold with bitcoin. There are a bunch of websites that accept bitcoin for gold and silver - bars and coins. Never really looked into it as a formula for cashing out, though.... Not sure what it entails. Would be kinda cool to have a couple of 1 kg. gold bars in the home safe...

mrpapageorgio · 03-25-18, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by Arky

You can buy gold with bitcoin. There are a bunch of websites that accept bitcoin for gold and silver - bars and coins. Never really looked into it as a formula for cashing out, though.... Not sure what it entails. Would be kinda cool to have a couple of 1 kg. gold bars in the home safe...

Don't know if they take orders outside of the U.S., but JMBullion takes Bitcoin (slightly more than check/wire, but cheaper than CC/Paypal).

APMEX has an FAQ on how to transact in Bitcoin, but don't see anything specifically saying they accept Bitcoin.

This site only takes crypto or wire transfers for bullion purchases, but never heard of them so do your research first: https://veldtgold.com/

Optional · 03-26-18, 01:43 AM

You're over thinking this grs123.

Keep a record of the payout transactions same as you would need to with a 200k wire or any other method. If the ATO ask about it you have the answer to provide them.

If the bitcoin you withdraw ends up appreciating in value between you receiving it and selling it for AU$ at an exchange, they you can declare that amount as capital gain on the bitcoin and pay your marginal rate on the extra profit.

But realistically, if you withdraw and then sell it the same day, this is not going to be an issue really.

And I would suggest independentreserve.com as a good Aussie exchange. They will buy your bitcoin and send the dollars to your bank account same day.

grs123 · 03-26-18, 05:15 AM

thanks optional after looking into it more its just on capital gain you have to declare..ill do the withdrawal as quick as possible so wont be a problem. Wanted tips such as yours on which bitcoin sites to use. Was thinking coinjar but now might use independantreserve. Is coinbase best to withdraw it to first before moving it to independant reserve if im in australia?

cmaulsby · 03-26-18, 08:22 AM

Optional, what are your thoughts on “local bitcoin” buyers as a way to sell BC and have dollars ACH to bank account? A legitimate way to move funds to US player, or no?

mrpapageorgio · 03-26-18, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by grs123

thanks optional after looking into it more its just on capital gain you have to declare..ill do the withdrawal as quick as possible so wont be a problem. Wanted tips such as yours on which bitcoin sites to use. Was thinking coinjar but now might use independantreserve. Is coinbase best to withdraw it to first before moving it to independant reserve if im in australia?

I don't know the gambling laws in Australia, but it says:

Finally, You agree that You will not use the Service to perform criminal activity of any sort, including but not limited to, money laundering, illegal gambling operations, terrorist financing, or malicious hacking.

Optional could probably answer this since he's more familiar with the Australian gambling laws, but as long as you're withdrawing from a legal Australian sports book, you can deposit directly into Independent Reserve and then sell the Bitcoin and withdraw the FIAT.

If it's a grey area, then withdrawing to an intermediary wallet (Coinbase would have the same problem as IR in terms of their terms of service) such as Electrum would be better and then sending the Bitcoin from the intermediary to Independent Reserve.

However, if you're withdrawing six figures, the safest would be getting a "cold" intermediary wallet such as a Ledger Nano S or Trezor wallet (costs around $100). Electrum is fine and you should be safe if you're going to immediately transfer the full amount from the intermediary to IR once you receive the Bitcoin. However, being a "hot" wallet, they carry the risk of being hacked since they are connected to the internet; where a "cold" wallet, like a Ledger, is not connected to the internet.

Optional · 03-26-18, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by grs123

thanks optional after looking into it more its just on capital gain you have to declare..ill do the withdrawal as quick as possible so wont be a problem. Wanted tips such as yours on which bitcoin sites to use. Was thinking coinjar but now might use independantreserve. Is coinbase best to withdraw it to first before moving it to independant reserve if im in australia?

You do not need Coinbase at all. It's focussed on USA cusstomers and their particular laws and tax regimine.

We are lucky and have no need to bother with cumbersome organizations like that.

You only need Independentreserve, which is kind of like the Aussie version of Coinbase.

I have not used Coinjar btw, so not saying that is bad/good, but do know Indepentreserve is excellent and right on top of Australian laws as they develop.

I think you will be safe to cashout through IR and know any ATO query can be addressed with their help if ever needed.

I use IR for cashing in and out.

And a desktop bitcoin wallet called Electrum.org as my personal "bitcoin bank account" wallet.

That is all we need in Australia.

Originally posted by cmaulsby

Optional, what are your thoughts on “local bitcoin” buyers as a way to sell BC and have dollars ACH to bank account? A legitimate way to move funds to US player, or no?

Some people love it. For Americans it's one way to try to avoid being noticed cashing out bitcoin. But it's like buying and selling on ebay or craigslist. Risks of being ripped off on price or tricked by shady sellers/buyers etc.

As an Aussie, I want a properly licensed exchange that will look legit to our tax office if I need to prove source and use of the bitcoin ever.

grs123 · 03-26-18, 08:45 PM

Thanks for the handy responses.I'll join independantreserve and withdraw it straight to there. The withdrawal limits using bitcoin at the bookie are $32500. I'll try 5000 first and see how it go's. After i do that ill withdraw 30000 etc.

Optional · 03-27-18, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by grs123

Thanks for the handy responses.I'll join independantreserve and withdraw it straight to there. The withdrawal limits using bitcoin at the bookie are $32500. I'll try 5000 first and see how it go's. After i do that ill withdraw 30000 etc.

I don't want to over-complicate things for you. But just so you know, I do not withdraw from books directly to the IR wallet.

Every transfer I do will include a wallet I own and control the private key for at one end. So I withdraw from the book to my Electrum desktop wallet and then transfer it from there to my IR bitcoin wallet.

The reason for this is that if something goes wrong I will have all the information about the transaction myself and not have to deal with two third parties to tell me what is going on or work together to solve my issue. And if each say it's not a problem at their end, what do you do then?

An analogy in the real world would be selling something on Gumtree and asking the buyer to send your money directly to someone else, like your electricity company to pay a bill. It will probably be fine most of the time, but what a pain in the ass it could cause if there is an issue.

I also hold any bitcoin on my Electrum wallet instead of leaving it in the IR wallet as well. The reason for this is that as much as I trust IR, it is still possible that they can be hacked or go broke or break a law and have funds seized etc etc. So I see it as an unnecessary risk having anyone else hold my money. Crypto means we can handle our own bank account and money.

hotcross · 03-27-18, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by icon

I prefer selling bitcoin on localbitcoins as its the fastest for me. Cash in hand in less than an hour.

icon, could you tell us what type of payment method works well for you when selling on localbitcoins site? I mean to avoid scammers and get a smooth transaction. I've seen some of the seller ads on there get pretty detailed on all the requirements they ask buyers to go thru....is that what you do?

grs123 · 03-27-18, 07:10 PM

Ok. Lucky you posted about electrum when you did as i was almost going to withdraw straight to independantreserve yesterday. I joined electrum and just withdrew $1000 to it. Done a screenshot of my withdrawal. Theres a chat transcript from the bookie too that gos to my email each time i withdraw as more evidence. After that ill move it to independantreserve...sell the bitcoins ..then withdraw the money to my bank.

grs123 · 03-29-18, 01:34 AM

I withdrew $100 from the sportsbook yesterday using bitcoin and its in my bank already.

Optional · 03-29-18, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by grs123

I withdrew $100 from the sportsbook yesterday using bitcoin and its in my bank already.

We are lucky as Australians. Super easy and fast.

Americans can use independentreserve.com too btw. Using wires to fund and withdraw in US$. If you are with a major bank they can be credited same day sometimes, or next business day as normal. Both ways.

TheMoneyShot · 03-29-18, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by grs123

I withdrew $100 from the sportsbook yesterday using bitcoin and its in my bank already.

I'm totally lost with your initial post. Why on earth would you be wondering about 200k or 20k??

When you requested 100?

Come on pal

grs123 · 03-29-18, 08:36 PM

i tried $100 bitcoin withdrawal as its my first time to see how it works before i withdraw the rest of my money.

TheMoneyShot · 03-30-18, 01:18 AM

Yeah

DitKent · 04-20-18, 11:01 AM

I have a general question as I have never withdrawn from a sportsbook with bitcoin but since they have removed skrill as an option this seems to be all we have.
When I withdraw from a bookie for bitcoin address am I allowed to put the address of my friends say Independentreserve bitcoin wallet address? if I don't want to go through the sometimes long verification process...

Optional · 04-20-18, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by DitKent

I have a general question as I have never withdrawn from a sportsbook with bitcoin but since they have removed skrill as an option this seems to be all we have.
When I withdraw from a bookie for bitcoin address am I allowed to put the address of my friends say Independentreserve bitcoin wallet address? if I don't want to go through the sometimes long verification process...

The sender has no idea who owns the receiving address so you can do that if you wish.

You may be creating a tax liability for your friend though. As he wont have bookmaker records to prove its gambling winnings if ever asked.

STerasedU · 08-20-18, 09:57 PM

Can't you just request a check from the online sportsbook?? I deposited into Heritage with bitcoin and just request a check for withdrawl?

STerasedU · 08-20-18, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by STerasedU

Can't you just request a check from the online sportsbook?? I deposited into Heritage with bitcoin and just request a check for withdrawl?

bump