He may not win, but Mat Latos deserves the Cy Young Award

[LT Profits]

He leads the Major Leagues in both ERA and WHIP, he is averaging more than a strikeout per inning, he has a 4/1 K/BB ratio and he has allowed three runs or less in 23 of 24 starts.

Who has pitched better this year?

[Wilforth]

They won't give it to him, nonetheless. It's like in the NBA where LeBron James was the anointed MVP, no matter what any other player did. Latos won't get the Cy Young Award this year no matter what he does. There are a select group of pitchers unto which the award will be bestowed. Unfortunately, Latos isn't one of them.

BTW, thanks for the thread.

[dolphan34]

What stands out most to me is his innings pitched. Only 155 vs Roy Halladay's 220. I think that makes up for the small differences in WHIP and ERA between the two guys, but I suppose we shall see. I would vote for Halladay.

[LT Profits]

What stands out most to me is his innings pitched. Only 155 vs Roy Halladay's 220. I think that makes up for the small differences in WHIP and ERA between the two guys, but I suppose we shall see. I would vote for Halladay.

Yes, Latos missed about a month I think. When I said he may not win in thread title, it was precisely for the prejudicial reasons Wilforth mentioned. To boot, Latos is picthing for a team that has been in first place all year (team's current collapse is irrelevant to my point), and yet he STILL seems to be an under-the-radar type pitcher.

[Metalhead]

Right now I have him 3rd behind Halladay and Wainwright.

[vitalogist]

Well, in actuality, ERA is not a true indicator of a pitcher's performance. The problem is, that the Cy Young voters determine the winner based on a whole load of statistics not based entirely on a pitcher's performance either, like Wins, and ERA. I'm sure you're familiar with the new metrics, FIP (fielding independent pitching) and xFIP (park adjusted FIP). By taking a look at these numbers, you'll see that Latos benefits greatly from pitching at Petco Park, and also has been the benefactor of an extremely low BABIP (batting average on balls put into play) of just .254. Latos has been very good, but my Cy Young vote would go to either Roy Halladay or Josh Johnson...

FIP
Johnson 2.44
Wainwright 2.93
Halladay 2.36
Gallardo 3.05
Jimenez 3.07
Latos 3.08

xFIP
Halladay 2.93
Johnson 3.17
Wainwright 3.20
Latos 3.35
Gallardo 3.41

In addition, Halladay K's almost 8 per game, and walks just over a batter a game, while Latos strikes out 9.25 and walks 2.49 per 9. Voters must become more educated, to make sure the right people are winning these awards. Same thing happens with the Gold Gloves, they are given out based on reputation, and whomever makes the most "webgems."

[Brock Landers]

Halladay doesn't deserve shit

[Pauulzcappin]

He will win when he doesn't have limited pitch/inning count.

Doc has been slacking in the last couple of games also.

[LT Profits]

Well, in actuality, ERA is not a true indicator of a pitcher's performance. The problem is, that the Cy Young voters determine the winner based on a whole load of statistics not based entirely on a pitcher's performance either, like Wins, and ERA. I'm sure you're familiar with the new metrics, FIP (fielding independent pitching) and xFIP (park adjusted FIP). By taking a look at these numbers, you'll see that Latos benefits greatly from pitching at Petco Park, and also has been the benefactor of an extremely low BABIP (batting average on balls put into play) of just .254. Latos has been very good, but my Cy Young vote would go to either Roy Halladay or Josh Johnson...

FIP
Johnson 2.44
Wainwright 2.93
Halladay 2.36
Gallardo 3.05
Jimenez 3.07
Latos 3.08

xFIP
Halladay 2.93
Johnson 3.17
Wainwright 3.20
Latos 3.35
Gallardo 3.41

In addition, Halladay K's almost 8 per game, and walks just over a batter a game, while Latos strikes out 9.25 and walks 2.49 per 9. Voters must become more educated, to make sure the right people are winning these awards. Same thing happens with the Gold Gloves, they are given out based on reputation, and whomever makes the most "webgems."

Outstanding post, but Latos allowing three runs or less in 23 of 24 starts should be factored in somehow. Can't get more consistent than that.

[Sawyer]

I don't know about CY Young but "Special Courage" award should go to Charlie Morton in my opinion. His ERA is 9.66 and his WHIP 2.06 but still he's pitching in majors, LoL.

[Pauulzcappin]

Outstanding post, but Latos allowing three runs or less in 23 of 24 starts should be factored in somehow. Can't get more consistent than that.

How many times did he go past 7 innings? how many complete games has he thrown? How many 6+ innings shutouts?

[LT Profits]

How many times did he go past 7 innings? how many complete games has he thrown? How many 6+ innings shutouts?

19 Quality Starts out of 24.

[whatsgood5]

Well, in actuality, ERA is not a true indicator of a pitcher's performance. The problem is, that the Cy Young voters determine the winner based on a whole load of statistics not based entirely on a pitcher's performance either, like Wins, and ERA. I'm sure you're familiar with the new metrics, FIP (fielding independent pitching) and xFIP (park adjusted FIP). By taking a look at these numbers, you'll see that Latos benefits greatly from pitching at Petco Park, and also has been the benefactor of an extremely low BABIP (batting average on balls put into play) of just .254. Latos has been very good, but my Cy Young vote would go to either Roy Halladay or Josh Johnson... FIP Johnson 2.44 Wainwright 2.93 Halladay 2.36 Gallardo 3.05 Jimenez 3.07 Latos 3.08 xFIP Halladay 2.93 Johnson 3.17 Wainwright 3.20 Latos 3.35 Gallardo 3.41 In addition, Halladay K's almost 8 per game, and walks just over a batter a game, while Latos strikes out 9.25 and walks 2.49 per 9. Voters must become more educated, to make sure the right people are winning these awards. Same thing happens with the Gold Gloves, they are given out based on reputation, and whomever makes the most "webgems."

Where does Tim Hudson rank in these categories?

[LT Profits]

Halladay has 22 QS out of 29

[Pauulzcappin]

19 Quality Starts out of 24.

You didn't answer my question

[whatsgood5]

Huddy has 23/28 if I tallied it up correctly. I'm not saying he should win the Cy, but I would definitely say that he, and Latos too, both don't get the attention they deserve.

[jollyoscars]

hes overrated. petco helps pitchers too much

[phillybadboy]

johnathan sanchez top in baeball

[LT Profits]

You didn't answer my question

Yes I did, Quality Starts should capture everything you asked about.

Oh except for Complete Games, and he has 1.

I wouldn't care much about that in this day and age though, Halladay and Cliff Lee are freaks in regards to Complete Games.

[LT Profits]

hes overrated. petco helps pitchers too much

How could he be overrated when not too many people have noticed how great a year he is having? He may be the most UNDERrated pitcher in baseball right now.

And no, he is NOT a Petco pitcher, he has a 2.26 ERA and 0.98 WHIP on the road, and his K/BB command translates everywhere.

[Willie Bee]

Good points all around. I'm not sure anyone has pitched better than Latos in the NL, but LT's right about voters not going his way. Could be how well Halladay and Jimenez close out. If Ubaldo wins 3-4 more and the Rocks do sneak into October, I think he gets it.

[vitalogist]

Where does Tim Hudson rank in these categories?

23th in FIP and 20th in xFIP.

[whatsgood5]

23th in FIP and 20th in xFIP.

Wow, not quite as far down as I was expected. I don't pay too close attention to what all these elaborate stats mean and whatnot, but would this be due to him being a ground-ball pitcher, or just that he's simply been lucky? Or none of the above?

[gryfyn1]

Theres alot of debate about how much theses should be weighted FiP and xFiP are designed to be more predictive stats based on what should have happened, a pitcher certainly should be given credit in some manner for what actually happened. Which is represented by number like BaBip and ERA which Fip and xFiP ignore.

While I agree that latos should be considered his lack of IP is definitely a minus. Latos had been great but not so much better than the guys at the top like Halladay, Johnson and Wainwright that the fact he has only 60-70% of the workload.

[Sawyer]

Agreed about Babip and Fip btw. ERA can be misleading.

Too early to call Matt Latos for Cy Young Award btw..

[TobiasFunke]

Halladay doesn't deserve shit

You're an idiot.

[gryfyn1]

Wow, not quite as far down as I was expected. I don't pay too close attention to what all these elaborate stats mean and whatnot, but would this be due to him being a ground-ball pitcher, or just that he's simply been lucky? Or none of the above?

FiP only takes into account BB, strikeout and HR rate, Xfip is similar but uses FB rate instead of HR rate.

obviously this leave pitchers like Hudson in the lurch, and why thing like Babip and ERA should gain some weight in reviewing what happened, which is what the Cy is for.

[vitalogist]

Here's a quick explanation: http://tiny.cc/am6s8

Basically, it's what the last guy said. Only factors in events that the pitcher himself controls. You take a guy like, say, Trevor Cahill. He plays with a really solid defense behind him, in a huge ballpark. His ERA is 2.83, but his FIP is 4.21. Also has a ridiculous BABIP of .223, which means he's been extremely lucky, and has had the defense make a few plays behind him, as well.

LT - sorry for hijacking your Latos thread into Sabermetrics 101!!!