CLIFF LEE for OSWALT?! enough already.

[rthoughton]

What is the confusion about this Lee deal?!!
If the Phils would have kept Lee, they wouldn't have gotten Halladay. And if they would have gotten Halladay and kept Lee, they would have lost Drabek Taylor AND Dom Brown. This Phils team has to maintain something in its system as it is not yet on the financial level of the Yanks.
By sending Lee to Seattle, they re-stocked their farm (adding Gillies and Aumont), got to keep Domonic Brown, and now landed Oswalt for Happ and peanuts. Brown is competing at the ML level already. By sending LEe to Seattle, who becomes a FA after this season, Seattle sent prospects to TOR to keep certain key players in Philly's farm.
This is absolutely NOT a Lee for Oswalt trade. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Keeping Lee was not an option if the Phils were intent on getting Doc and looking to compete 3+ seasons from now.
Rollins, Utley, Howard are all drafted talent, farm talent. The Phils cannot sell the farm like the Yanks. They have to stay stocked if they wish to compete long term.
They just got $11mil from the Astros on Oswalt's contract thru 2011, can play Brown in RF in 2011, and still have some money left for the fa market postseason.
Please stop with the Lee for Oswalt babble. It is VERY off base.
With the money saved now, and letting Werth go, the Phils are going to be able to go after anyone they want to fill in the holes. This game is more involved than the present.
Anyone who thinks the Phils would be better off with Cliff Lee than with Halladay and Oswalt is a damned fool.
And when the deal Lee to Seattle for Halladay went thru, the option was this: Lee for 2010 only or Halladay for several years to come.
This Oswalt deal is brilliant, as was the Lee one.
Do some effing reading.

[2daBank]

Philly homer that spins everything the way he wants...enough all ready....

[rthoughton]

You clearly don't know anything about the Lee deal. Im trying to tell how it really went, because I was all into the deal.
Im sorry, cupcake, but you are clearly out of your element here.
Halladay and Lee for this season only, losing Brown, Drabek, Taylor, and not getting Aumont and Gillies, is better in your mind than keeping Brown who will be the starting 5-tool RF stud in 2011, getting Oswalt ($11 mil of which coming from Hou), restocking the farm, and having money to play in the fa market this season?
You really should look into this deal, because you clearly know nothing about the Phils side of things. you are clearly ignorant on this topic.

[rthoughton]

and oh ya... the Blue Jays wanted Happ, too. Drabek, HApp, Taylor and Brown was what Toronto wanted for Halladay.

[2daBank]

you clearly dont know anything period if you think at some point phi gonna be on nyy financial level.....

[rthoughton]

that was my point, they will never be on the level financially as the Yanks. THEREFOR, the PHILS have to consider their farm system, and not just sell everything to be great for one season. Which is why they sent Lee to Seattle to get Halladay. BC technically, the trade that you wanna call Oswalt for Lee... is really Jhapp Lee Taylor and Drabek for Halladay, Oswalt, Gillies and Aumont... and get to KEEP Domonic Brown who will start in Right for the next 10 years.
Thanks for proving my point, though.
The way you think would have been best is Drabek Happ Taylor Brown for Halladay. and keep Lee. who they lose in one season.

[2daBank]

yet implies that it will happen, while you busy calling ppl fools.......

[rthoughton]

you are turd mining. Im sorry, I misspoke. you are right, yet means it will happen.
The point is, they are not financially equivalent to the Yanks, therefore they cannot sell the farm to get Halladay. Cant do it.
But, if they can get halladay and restock the farm, keep Brown, and have financial wiggle room for free agency, that't the route you choose.

[2daBank]

honestly i dont care....it is whatever, it does not effect the way i make bets, talk to me about there farm system when they playing in the mlb...until then it is irrelevant, all i know is id feel a lot better about laying that chalk on the road if Lee was pitching......

[$Burm$]

oswalt and hallady will stay in philly, lee most likely wouldve left philly...end of story

[rthoughton]

and they get to keep Brown and added prospects.

[rthoughton]

Oswalt will be a fine #3.

[Vesuvius]

Roy will be ok, will be interesting come playoff time.

[dodger33]

After what Lee did for you in the playoffs I dont care if it was the second coming of jesus that was in their farm system. You are telling me that you could of had what I think is possibly the top 2 pitchers in the league on the same team. They would have written themselves a ticket to the World Series. Oswalt is good but nowhere near Lee's level right now.

[rthoughton]

FOR ONE SEASON! FOr one damn season they could have been the best. but that's it. Lee was gonna leave.
They have been to consecutive World Series and now get to compete for years and years to come.
If they keep lee and get halladay, they are great for one year, then in 2011 they are good, and in 2012 they are irrelevant, and need a decade to rebuild.
You dont sell your farm to be good for one season... unless you are the yanks.

[rthoughton]

and they got a ticket to the World Series in consecutive seasons without the two pitchers. Now they have the best staff they have ever had, and will compete for the next 10 years instead of being irrelevant after 2012.
domonic Brown may very well be the second coming of Jesus Christ, too. and he is now a phillie.
I dont care if they would have been unbeatable for one season if it costs them a decade to recover.

[dodger33]

Then why did they trade JA for Oswalt?? How old are those two??
Here is the thing about baseball you never know when you are going to make it back to the world series. If you have a shot you go for it. Even if your young prospects make it big they could never make as much difference as Lee would have this year. Lee has said he liked it in Philly and hell I wouldn't doubt if he ends up there sometime soon.

[dodger33]

Not even a decade. The A's ship off loads of talent every year. Its called a draft... as long as you can pick properly and don't trade away your young talent EVERY year for 10 years in a row (pirates) they would have been fine. You are way exaggerating with the decade crap.

[dodger33]

Thanks 2da at least someone gets it.

[rthoughton]

HApp would have gone to the Blue Jays to land Halladay if Lee stayed in Philly.
The deal would have been : Michael Taylor, Drabek, Brown, AND Happ for Halladay.
But they didnt do that. instead, they sent lee to Seattle, who sent prospects to TOR, which allowed the Phils to hang on to Brown, and get prospects in return.
They basically dealt Lee, Happ, Taylor, Drabek for Halladay, Oswalt, Gillies and Aumont. And keep Brown. This is a no-brainer. Especially when you get $11mil towards Oswalt's contract.
And your point is moot, because they are going to the World Series this year anyway. They just punched their ticket for that by dealing for Oswalt yesterday.
And please dont tell me about the draft... man.. the Phils are only relevant now because of the draft. Rollins, Utley, Howard are all drafted, farm-risen studs. THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO SELL THE FARM FOR ONE SEASON. And they are now proving to you that they can have that one season that you seem to think Lee guaranteed them, without Lee. And they restock the farm, and add another Ace.
This is not a difficult thing to grasp.
When you have a budget, you make the moves that make you relevant for the longterm. When you are the Yankees, you do what you guys are saying. The Phils are not in that position.
Trust me on this. Ruben Amaro knows more about what's best for the Phils than you guys do. Im sure of it.

[dodger33]

Good luck with that closer of yours. You guys are going to struggle to hit the wild card this year.

[rthoughton]

and when have the A's been good? They have been selling off talent because they are in a constant state of rebuilding.
If you give up every top prospect you have, it will take you a significant number of seasons to get it together. You dont sell it all off for one season, especially when you can have that one season (which is really 3 now, bro) without selling your best prospect.

[rthoughton]

Lidge looked pretty dominant last night. Wish they would have gone to him in the 9th.
Wild Card? uh, no.
The Phils will win the East by at least 5 games.
they just cut a 7 game deficit to 2.5 in a week. It will be 1.5 after the Reds win tonight.

[rthoughton]

The phillies are going to the world series this season. Without cliff lee. And then probably again in 2011.

[dodger33]

My point with the A's is that if they would have kept a quarter of their farm talent they would be winning the west every year. I guess it comes down to what the GM and owner define as a successful season. The A's seem quite content giving themselves an outside shot with a low payroll every year. All I am saying is that it is possible to re stock the farm system if you have good scouts. I know the Phillies scout in so cal and he found their first two picks in this years draft. Good organizations have 1 rebuilding year not a rebuilding decade. I am glad you believe in your team though.

[netinfo]

The phillies are going to the world series this season. Without cliff lee. And then probably again in 2011.

The three-headed monster of Carpenter/Wainwright/Garcia might disagree with you on this one.

netinfo

[2daBank]

to be clear once again, you are saying this guy getting spanked by the Nats has just solidified your spot in the WS? And that you are better off with him instead of Lee? tell me again how you are not just another homer?

[dodger33]

Get him banker!