[samus82]

Hi everyone, hoping you can help me with a dispute I am having with vitalbet.com.

Yesterday I placed 3 live bets on football on the Copa American match between Mexico and Chilie. All my bets were on total goals and all bets won, however this morning I received an e-mail to say that my bets had been refunded for ridiculous reasons.

They say at each bet, the result had already been determined or that the odds were wrong. At 2-0 I bet on over 3.5/4 at odds of 1.92 (this is around 35 mins into the game). They claim this was late and that I did this after a penalty was awarded. This happened after my bet. I placed the bet a good 5 mins before the penalty.

During the 2nd half at 4-0 I placed a bet on over 5.5 at 2.51, this was well into the 2nd half. Again, this won, but they claim the score was 5-0 and therefore the odds should be much lower.

The final bet was over 6.5 goals scored by Chile. I placed this shortly after they had scored their 6th goal. They did not score their 7th until close to the end, yet they claim this was late!

Their system doesn't allow any bets to happen when action occurs (as like most sportsbooks ). On top of this, none of the bets were close to the timing of goals (in the context of the match, a few minutes is a long time between a bet being placed and action taking place). I've contacted them asking for timestamps but they are refusing. They have amended my bet history to show the time of bet cancellations (this morning at 9am GMT) rather than the times the bets were placed.

I'm stunned. The company are claiming all 3 bets that were placed at different times during the match were all nul for various reasons.

They claimed that they had refunded the stakes (which total £876) but there was only £435 left in my account this morning (there should have been £1600 counting my winnings).

They are also claiming I was trying to abuse their betting system as bets were attempted unsuccessfully. By this they mean they did not allow bets to be placed because of odd changes (not because of action, I'm describing minimal odds changes e.g. 2.04 to 2.06).

They have now refusing to even allow me to withdraw the £435 that is in the account, claiming they have locked my account as a result of me making a complaint.

[Jliao4]

Hopefully Optional can help you resolve this issue. I'm interested in seeing the outcome of this, Vitalbet had caught my eye because they are a Bitcoin sportsbook however if these allegations are true it seems they are not as trustworthy as I had thought. Disappointing for the so called "official sportsbook of Manny Pacquiao."

[samus82]

Just like to point out that they have now suspended my account and cancelled the withdrawal I had pending for the amount that is not in dispute (i.e. the funds that were not involved in the football bets at all) which totals £435.

They have stopped responding to my e-mails as well.

[Optional]

Would you please fill in a complaint form and we can try to find out whats going on here for you: http://www.sportsbookreview.com/sportsbook-complaint/

[samus82]

Hi Optional,

I did submit this at the time but have re-submitted just incase. Please can you confirm receipt?

Thanks

[tristan]

They copy Pinnacle's lines, but they're far away from having Pinnacle 's reliability ! I'm very curious too to know the outcome of that issue. But one thing is sure, for now i wouldn't place a single euro at Vitalbet

[DeathAdder]

Avoid shady bookmakers. Stick with the big 3 Pinnacle, Bet365, Bovada/5Dimes

[samus82]

They did send me an e-mail earlier today to apologise for the delay (I had sent several e-mails with no answer, they blocked my ip address on their chat facility and also have no phone number). They promised a response today, but low and behold no answer. I have sent them 2 requests for an update.

Getting really concerned now.

[samus82]

UPDATE - This afternoon I received a payment to my neteller account for £418. This is half of what my stakes were to the business for the bets in question (even if they had decided to stick by their decision to cancel my bets, my balance should have been £876). I have also received no notification regarding the situation at all from them. All of my e-mail have been ignored and they are blocking me on their chat service.

[Bill Dozer]

UPDATE - This afternoon I received a payment to my neteller account for £418. This is half of what my stakes were to the business for the bets in question (even if they had decided to stick by their decision to cancel my bets, my balance should have been £876). I have also received no notification regarding the situation at all from them. All of my e-mail have been ignored and they are blocking me on their chat service.

Go ahead and follow our part 2 instructions. While they arent responding, it appears they are reading.

[samus82]

Thanks Bill.

I cc'ed you into the e-mail I sent them this morning. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[samus82]

A few people asked me to update this.

The book haven't changed their position. They are refusing to send a copy of my bet history log that shows the times the bets were placed. They are also accusing me of blackmailing them because I said I would close any external complaints if they returned the funds in question.

Looks pretty dire right now. Can I ask you add the book to your list? At the very least I'd like to know no one else would become a victim to these con artists.

[Bill Dozer]

If they can't provide the data it is incriminating. Keep pushing for that as we will. CC SBR each time please.

[samus82]

So, just to keep everyone updated, the book responded today by showing a copy of my bet history which shows the times the bets were placed, alongside a third party log of match events such as goals etc (just to remind you, the times of the bets was in dispute, apparently I was somehow able to cheat their system multiple times in one evening by placing bets at odds that weren't available).

The pictures appear to be tampered with yet even going by the evidence they've provided, they are wrong.

I've cc'ed you in Bill, I look forward to hearing them explain.

[Bill Dozer]

Thanks Samus. We are taking a close look and will follow up with questions for the bookmaker.

[samus82]

Hey Bill, I've created the complaint in the format you suggested. Would you mind taking a look?

[samus82]

After doing some research I found the company is operating under the licence - #365/JAZ in Curacao.

The licence is linked to two Casino websites that have been closed down due to attempts to scam customers.

[Optional]

After doing some research I found the company is operating under the licence - #365/JAZ in Curacao.

The licence is linked to two Casino websites that have been closed down due to attempts to scam customers.

Curacao has a weird licensing regime where several sub-license providers give out the licenses. They may not necessarily be related. TopBet and Betphoenix work under that same license number as an example.

You can email the 'sub-regulator' here: info@gaming-curacao.com

Chances are they won't be greatly helpful but let us know how you go. Maybe BCC to Bill Dozer so he knows what you are doing too.

[samus82]

Ok thanks Opti, I'll wait for Bill to get back to me and then consider e-mailing them.

[samus82]

As Recommended by Bill Dozer (thanks again btw), I have re-formatted my complaint and included pictures for people to see the evidence for themselves:

I recently had a bad experience with Vitalbet.com that I would like to share with you. I encourage anyone to read my story in full, but I’ll offer a brief summary to those who prefer a quick breakdown.

SUMMARY - Essentially Vitalbet have cancelled 3 perfectly good winning bets and kept the winnings of £1256.64. They claim I abused their system by placing bets after goals were scored and that the markets had already been determined. When I complained, they suspended my account and accused me of trying to blackmail them.

I continued to send e-mails that proved they were making a mistake but they didn’t respond. I contacted SBR, who very kindly offered to help. SBR asked me to CC them into all future contact with VB. VB began responding again. I requested a log of my bet history, which they eventually sent after 3 days. When they responded, they sent pictures that actually incriminate them. I e-mailed them to point this out and have not had a response since (pictures provided below).

FULL STORY
On the morning of 19^th June 2016, I placed 3 bets on goal markets on 2 separate Copa America Football matches. For full details I have added pictures below.

All 3 bets won and I was very happy. I used some of my winnings on other bets and went to bed. I woke up to find a huge amount of money missing from my account. I checked my e-mails to see that VB had contacted me. They advised that they had cancelled all 3 bets on the basis that on each occasion the bets were placed after goals had been scored. I was obviously livid, so I sent several e-mails to try and resolve the matter and threatened to make a formal complaint if they didn’t. They proceeded to suspend my account along with the remaining funds in the account (£435).

I requested they at least return the undisputed funds, but they refused, stating they would have to wait for the conclusion of any third party complaint I raised. I explained I would take this to a governing body, but was unable to find one who could help due to their location. I asked SBR for help and they asked me to CC them into all contact.

VB took a while to reply, but after a few days they finally did. They returned my remaining funds by Neteller (which they charge 2% for, I had no option to change this). They then accused me of blackmail as I advised I would close all third party complaints if they returned my funds. They linked the webpage of my SBR complaint. Apparently asking for help to achieve a fair resolution is blackmail?

I asked for a copy of my bet history as I was convinced this would settle the dispute (I had managed to get a screenshot before they suspended my account, but it shows the times the bets were refunded, rather than the times they were placed). They eventually responded after 3 days with a suspect set of pictures. It is clear to me they have been tampered with.

I have provided the pictures below for you to see. I will break down the problems with their “evidence” in bullet points below.


338485 - the 5th and the 6th goals were already scored by the time of your bet. The bet info incorrectly indicates 4:0 and therefore the odd should have been much lower than 2.51.

- Vitalbet (VB) claim my bet was after the 5^th and 6^th goals had been scored and that their system was incorrectly showing showing 4-0 at the time. There was a 17-minute gap between the 5^th and 6^th goal being scored. Therefore, VB are claiming in the space of 17 minutes their system had not updated to show either goal.

- They claim my bet was placed at 6:20am GMT. The 6^th goal can’t have been scored until after 6:29am (scored in 74^th minute, kick off was 5am GMT).

338515 - placed at the time of the 7th goal being scored.

- Claimed my bet was placed at 6:41am GMT and claim this was after the 7^th goal.

- The gap between 6^th and 7^th goal was only 13 minutes. They claim both of my bets were placed at the time of 6^th and 7^th goals respectfully, but there is a 21-minute gap between my bets? How is that possible?

- The odds for Chile to score another goal with only 3 minutes left of play would have been much higher than 2/1.

- They claim my first bet was at the time of the 6^th goal and the 2^nd bet at the time of the 7^th goal. The gap between these goals is only 13 minutes, but the gap between the bets is 21 minutes. Obviously this doesn’t make sense.

338349 - put in the 43th min when penalty kick had already been given.

- Claim my bet was placed after a penalty was awarded.

- Conveniently the book has amended this to the minute the penalty was awarded. How would it have been possible for me to place a bet on their system when their platform clearly suspends play when action takes place.

- Not that this is relevant at all to my bet (it was not late), but the penalty was missed and therefore had no effect on the match.

The evidence provided by Vitalbet does not add up, no matter what aspect of it you decide to take as fact.

They claim I placed my 2^nd bet after the 7^th goal, which was scored in the 87^th minute. This would mean that with only 3 minutes left in the match, their system was offering Chile to score over 6.5 goals at odds of 3.07 (2/1). Those odds would be low for either team to score, let alone one team individually.

Odds of 2.51 were offered for over 5.5 goals when the score was 4-0 in the 53^rd minute. Do they expect me to believe that with 3 minutes left in the match, the odds for one team to score a goal would only be 3.07?!

This doesn’t even take into account the very basic issue that they are claiming that I was somehow able to cheat their system with these bets. No book in the world would allow people to place bets on markets that have already been determined, yet they claim I was able to do this 3 times in 1 night on 3 different markets.

The pictures have clearly been amended to try and cover up their actions, but all they done is prove their attempt to scam me.
I pointed all of this out to them in an e-mail, but they responded to say they are closing the complaint. They did not address any of the points I made.

I am losing hope of ever getting my money back, but at the very least it would give me comfort to know I am helping people avoid being scammed by this company.

Links to pictures: http://imgur.com/a/xqYNn

[Bill Dozer]

Sam,
Your evidence nicely shows Vitalbet's cancellations don't add up. Hopefully we can get this in front of someone who actually cares about the brand.

[samus82]

Just found out this morning that the book has no legal right to trade in the UK. Feel pretty stupid, but to be honest I didn't understand the law behind licences etc. Apparently you need a licence with the Gambling Commission to trade in the UK, which they don't have.

[SBR Forum]

Vitalbet has asked us to share the following on their behalf.

To whom it may concern,

Please, be informed that our license operator (Curacao eGaming) has unanimously confirmed our decision.

The player has been creating a lot of bad publicity for the website and we are considering taking legal action against him as we have proven our point in front of the license operator.

Yet, the player is still providing false information to everyone, including you.

The case is resolved in our favor and we have no intention of spending more of our precious time on it. Instead, we are now focused on improving our services even further, making sure that such abusive practices would be prevented in the future.

Then in a second statement, after we asked to see a copy of the decision and what specifically was determined to be "false information":

We cannot share correspondence with third parties without their consent.

We have it proven that this customer's bets were late and thus, his statement that the bets were legit/valid has been rejected.

It has been confirmed that in the dispute cases between this customer and licensed operators, the latter have always been right and correct.

We believe it is only natural - and necessary - for you to add this conclusion to the public information surrounding the case. Still, it is in your hands as you are the experts in this business after all. On our end, we will keep striving to improve our services so that such cases are avoided in the future.

The customer has also received the operator's confirmation on this case resolution.

Sammus, can you share with us what email you received informing you that Curacao eGaming sided with VitalBet and what information if any was included supporting that decision?

[samus82]

Sure,

The licence holder e-mailed me back and only responded to 2 points:

My complaint that the company had withheld the balance of my account whilst my complaint was being investigated.

They explained how much the balance was and that vitalbet had returned this amount via neteller. They said this was "prompt" but it took 5 days for them to even acknowledge that this was due to me.

Second aspect; they have no right to trade in the UK (no UK trading licence)

The company has no right to trade in the UK, but apparently the licence holder says this is my own fault and that they don't care that the company are acting illegally. The responsibility is all mine as far as they are concerned.

[samus82]

FULL E-MAIL

Mr. Richards,
We have reviewed your account with VitalBet and they have provided a history of your account with them.
We see that since opening your account on 17/10/2015 you have had many bets denied due to being placed at the moment the outcome was clear. We have a list of over 35 different wagers in which you have tried this previously without ever making a complaint and they were also denied. We have also seen that our licensee received 100’s of bets for the same match yet you are the only one where there is an issue. The issue you mentioned about Neteller is mute as this has been the only pay method you have used with VitalBet which means you were fully aware of the fees involved. We agree with VitalBet in stating their article 9.3
9.3 We do not accept any responsibility for typing, human or palpable errors, which lead to obvious price errors. In such cases all bets will be deemed void. In the event of any dispute regarding a Stake or Winnings, our decision will be final and binding.

Quote from your e mail below: They proceeded to suspend my account along with the remaining funds in the account (£435).I requested they at least return the undisputed funds, but they refused, stating they would have to wait for the conclusion of any third party complaint I raised.
As far as the amount owed we agree with Vitalbet and do see that of the 11 bets that were made 6 were lost, 3 were winning and 2 were refunded. Which is why your balance was 435.56. It is fair to mention that you were paid the amount owed promptly after they reviewed the account. You were paid the amount you agreed to in your e mail to them

Quote from your e mail below” I explained I would take this to a governing body, but was unable to find one who could help due to their location.”
You mentioned that you were unable to contact us yet our seal and link have been at the bottom of their website since we first issued the license. A simple click on the seal would have brought you to our site where we could have been involved at the beginning.

As to your claim below from the UK authority it is your responsibility to know the laws of the jurisdiction that you reside in to ensure that you are within the law to place bets on the site.
3.2 You can only use the Online Casino/Sportsbook and/or the Website and/or downloadable application(s) if you are the legal age as determined by Applicable Laws.
6.1 You are solely responsible to determine whether the access and use of the Online Casino/Sportsbook by you, and the making of Deposits to the Online Casino/Sportsbook and receipt of Winnings from it, are permitted under any Applicable Laws.


We find that our Licensee VitalBet did not violate any of their terms with us and that they operated in a professional manner

(Just like to point out that "other attempts" they are referring to are attempts to place live bets. Their system rejects any pending bets if the odds change at all, even like 0.0001% change, they always reject bets. Apparently the rejection of an attempted live bet due to an odds change is me attempting to abuse their system).

[samus82]

So just to clarify, they didn't respond to any aspect of the e-mail regarding the evidence I provided.

They addressed the outstanding balance that was returned and the fact that it's my responsibility to ensure they're trading legally.

[Optional]

you have had many bets denied due to being placed at the moment the outcome was clear.

Sounds like someone was asleep at the wheel there to start with.

Surprising to hear anyone could get away with MANY instances of late live bets. Do that even 3 or 4 times at many places and you will be warned or banned quickly.

[samus82]

Exactly. They've already changed their tune about this during my complaint. They're just trying to spin it anyway they can.

They showed me the log a while ago about the bets they were referring to and all of them are in reference to cancelled bets where the odds had changed during live in play. It's frustrating actually, most companies give you the option to accept odds changes, or they at least ignore minor changes, whereas vitalbet cancel if there is even the slightest of odds movement.

[lonnie55]

Just got caught, too.

Today I placed 9 bets on football match Estonia Cup Kuressaare-Marjamaa at Vitalbet.com. I won all 9 bets. At 20:20 CET I saw that Vitalbet graded the first 2 bet slips as won. Then 2 minutes later they graded all bets back to pending status. Few moments later all bets were voided with the info note "Fixed Match Alert".

That's just ridiculous. First they make all bets win. Few minutes later they think about it and make all bets void.

They say the match would be under review and other sportsbooks would review the match, too. But that's not true. I played at two other books. Both books payed out immediately after the match was finished.

I never expected a sportsbook that calls itself "Official Sportsbook of Manny Pacquiao" and sponsors an EPL club like Swansea City would act like a scam book.