[ozpak]

So today I received message from Bet365 that my account is under restriction. I checked my limits and it's ridiculously low like $2 or $3. So no more arbing on this book.

Below are details I have gather from my betting history and it confirms that companies will limit you as soon as you win few bets with them continuously.

Date	Betting Amount for the period	Profit/Loss	Remarks
4Jan2016 - 10Jan2016	$ 9,430.00	$ 1,025.41	Start of Trading
12Jan2016-1Feb2016	$ 16,363.00	-$ 6,421.40	Lose 6k. No restriction imposed. Instead my max limits were upto $70k on NBA
1Feb2016-8feb2016	$ 9,225.00	-$ 742.78	Another losing week. No restrictions imposed.
8feb2016-15feb2016	$ 11,604.41	$ 1,557.54	Still no restrictions
15feb2016-21feb2016	$ 14,144.97	$ 3,453.78	Max betting Limit decrease to $1500 on NBA
21feb2016-26feb2016	$ 9,525.00	$ 5,009.74	Limited to $2 or $3 on 26th of Feb So I am done with this so called "World's Favourite Online Bookmaker" after taking a healthy profit.
Total	$ 70,292.38	$ 3,882.29

As you can see, I had couple of losing weeks and my max betting limits were upto 70k. As soon as I have 1 winning week, I was limited to $1500 and then $2 or $3. There must be laws and regulations for these sort of behavior where only losers are allowed to bet.

Also, I am surprised it took them so long to restrict me like almost 2 months. But no regrets. It's time to explore new horizons.

[GigaOuts]

How is that even make sense to anyone when you go from 70k limit to Dollarama item? Do they give ridiculous limit to new customer so they can free-roll them if they wins by seeing they break any t & c?

[Hareeba!]

How is that even make sense to anyone when you go from 70k limit to Dollarama item? Do they give ridiculous limit to new customer so they can free-roll them if they wins by seeing they break any t & c?

makes sense to Bet$3.65 !

[ozpak]

makes sense to Bet$3.65 !

Moral of Story: "If someone still able to bet with #bet3.65 at decent limits, he is a big time losing punter and he needs to consider his punting career again"

[ozpak]

How is that even make sense to anyone when you go from 70k limit to Dollarama item? Do they give ridiculous limit to new customer so they can free-roll them if they wins by seeing they break any t & c?

They give high limit to new customers. So if customer is value betting (means betting on higher odds than closing odds), then there are great chances that customer will be a winning punter in long run. As long as you will lose money with these corporate bookmakers, then no problems. Your limits will be high. Once you have few big wins, these corporate bookmakers will review your account. While reviewing they can see that you are betting on higher odds as compared to closing odds. That's the point where they will restrict you gradually.

[Optional]

Moral of Story: "If someone still able to bet with #bet3.65 at decent limits, he is a big time losing punter and he needs to consider his punting career again"

Moral of story: "If you can't see a way to play at 365 and win and are so sure anyone who can must be a loser... then guess who the dumb one really is".

[DeathAdder]

Ozpak Bet365 is a fantastic sportsbook and I have had no problems with them ever. They do not tolerate Arbers and that is the reason your limits were cut. It's crystal clear why they decided to take action against you and frankly I don't blame them.

[GigaOuts]

Yes there is winner & big winner who play on bet$3.65 & still have high limit. I believe the percentage of winner at bet$3.65 is very close to the same percentage of winner who frequent casino regularly, less than 1%?

[GigaOuts]

Ozpak Bet365 is a fantastic sportsbook and I have had no problems with them ever. They do not tolerate Arbers and that is the reason your limits were cut. It's crystal clear why they decided to take action against you and frankly I don't blame them.

Why are you so sure they only limits arber only? If that is true, why do they limit to $2-$3 bet, maximum winning is $6 on a bet? If you limit player to $100, how much profit from $100 arb? virtually $0. I was told by bet$3.65 blatantly that they limit me because I won't be a profitable customer in a long run, not arbing. I can not wait for player who defend bet$3.65 who still have good limit get cut, it make me smile when it is their turn to walk the plank.

[ozpak]

Ozpak Bet365 is a fantastic sportsbook and I have had no problems with them ever. They do not tolerate Arbers and that is the reason your limits were cut. It's crystal clear why they decided to take action against you and frankly I don't blame them.

IF you think they only limit arbers and anyone who has decent size betting limits with #bet3.65 is not a losing punter, then we are done arguing here. I was arbing only on NBA and NBL lines. Not on small leagues. THere is no way on earth to prove that I was arbing with Bet3.65. All I was trying to do was beating the closing lines on Bet3.65.

I agree with GigaOuts about Casino comments. So no more arguing on this.

[ozpak]

Moral of story: "If you can't see a way to play at 365 and win and are so sure anyone who can must be a loser... then guess who the dumb one really is".

I am not the 1st one who got limited and I will not be the last one who got limited. Call me dumb or whatever. But I presented data on this thread. And data don't lie. In the data one can clearly see that 1st 2 losing periods and I was enjoying maximum limits. I won around$3k back and limits decrease. I won $8k and limits decrease to $2-3. I am dead sure that if I keep on losing on this part of arb, I would never limited.

Moreover, I was betting average stake of $1k-$1.5k with multiple of 50's. I was not betting any round numbers like 889.68.

But I also agree with you. Bet3.65 is for punters whose average stakes are $5-$50 and who like to play exotic markets like corners, goal scorer etc.

No regrets on getting banned from bet3.65. Now I have focus my energies towards Tab Shops

[Optional]

I was betting average stake of $1k-$1.5k with multiple of 50's. I was not betting any round numbers like 889.68.

This is a bit of a misnomer these days. Books actually monitor where arbs exist themselves and an alert comes up if you hit more than one or two arbable prices between them and the same other book. Whatever the bet amount.

[Hareeba!]

Why are you so sure they only limits arber only? If that is true, why do they limit to $2-$3 bet, maximum winning is $6 on a bet? If you limit player to $100, how much profit from $100 arb? virtually $0. I was told by bet$3.65 blatantly that they limit me because I won't be a profitable customer in a long run, not arbing. I can not wait for player who defend bet$3.65 who still have good limit get cut, it make me smile when it is their turn to walk the plank.

I too was told by Bet365 that they were closing my account because it wasn't profitable for them to keep it open.
At least they give you a reason. Most refuse to discuss reasons and just say final decision by their traders.
They can only guess if one is arbing. I wasn't and don't arb!
At least one other bookie has called me an arber when I complained about paltry limits.
All that really concerns them is that you beat the closing line or odds.
Arbers and steam players do. So those are the labels they will hang on you.
If you consistently beat the closing line or odds they know they are unlikely to make any money from you in the long term.
The only reason I still have a Bet365 account is because I referred them to the NSW law whereby they are obligated to take bets on racing.
And they are clearly the best bookie for betting on racing.
For any sports or race bets other than on NSW racing my limits are hardly worth bothering with attempting to place a bet.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

THere is no way on earth to prove that I was arbing with Bet3.65. All I was trying to do was beating the closing lines on Bet3.65.

Not only is that incredibly easy to prove, it's something they'll do automatically.

[larco15]

Not only is that incredibly easy to prove, it's something they'll do automatically.

Interesting. Explain.

[titanium777]

Sometimes you need to take a step back and analyze the industry:

Every time you place a bet - small cut taken
Lose bet - tough loss
Win consistently - apparently get limited
Want to withdraw winnings - prepare for more fees

[Statman]

Just for my knowledge can someone provide an example of what "arbing" is ?

BTW - Kudos for coming out on the plus side overall.

[Domestic]

Just for my knowledge can someone provide an example of what "arbing" is ?

BTW - Kudos for coming out on the plus side overall.

It is short for Arbitrage betting. It is a situation in which betting on both sides of an event will result in guaranteed profit. A basic example; one book may have Federer +110 to win the first set vs Nadal and another book may have Nadal +105 to win the first set. This typically requires a high bankroll for it to be worthwhile and best opportunities are found with less popular leagues or lesser known players that don't attract a lot of mainstream betting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage_betting

[jjgold]

A profitable books limits winners

It is growing in the industry

[tyson895]

Not only is that incredibly easy to prove, it's something they'll do automatically.

Explain how they prove it please? I've bought back plays at times in the NFL. Sometimes early in the week I'll make a wager and then later, after I look at more more information in the week, I'll buy the other side. Sometimes at a better value. So is this not the same as arbing? Am I at risk of getting booted from my book?

[Optional]

Explain how they prove it please? I've bought back plays at times in the NFL. Sometimes early in the week I'll make a wager and then later, after I look at more more information in the week, I'll buy the other side. Sometimes at a better value. So is this not the same as arbing? Am I at risk of getting booted from my book?

That isn't arbing, as you say. Arbitrage is placing two orders simultaneously to create a guaranteed profit.

The book identifies arbers the same way arbers identify arbs. With software to monitor where any exist against them. And if you hit an arbable price on anything more than once or twice they will see a flag on your account for it to be checked.

And they dont have to "prove" anything. Their terms say they can refuse service if they dont like your action.

[Hareeba!]

Explain how they prove it please? I've bought back plays at times in the NFL. Sometimes early in the week I'll make a wager and then later, after I look at more more information in the week, I'll buy the other side. Sometimes at a better value. So is this not the same as arbing? Am I at risk of getting booted from my book?

That's trading, not arbing.

And yes you are at risk of getting limited at least if not booted by most books if you regularly manage to beat the closing odds/lines.

[Hareeba!]

That isn't arbing, as you say. Arbitrage is placing two orders simultaneously to create a guaranteed profit.

The book identifies arbers the same way arbers identify arbs. With software to monitor where any exist against them. And if you hit an arbable price on anything more than once or twice they will see a flag on your account for it to be checked.

And they dont have to "prove" anything. Their terms say they can refuse service if they dont like your action.

So a keen price shopper is clearly going to fall foul of such monitoring too. Which is consistent with claims by bookies that I'm an arber which I am most definitely not!

[Optional]

So a keen price shopper is clearly going to fall foul of such monitoring too. Which is consistent with claims by bookies that I'm an arber which I am most definitely not!

I don't think so. From the little bit about admin systems I have been shown or told about it stands out from regular bettors like canine testes.

It will only get you flagged if you hit a few at the exact right odds at the exact right moment... which would be unusual to start with if you aren't monitoring them real time (as so many others are, so the window of opportunity is usually small) and even then they will only look at your account based on that. If 99% of your bets aren't arbs, or course they wont think you are just exploiting them for arbs.

Hit a 3rd division Dutch soccer total arb, followed by badminton world cup arb and then a challenger tennis one... all at the right moment and all against the same other book, well they probably wont ask many more questions no matter what percentage of your bets aren't arbs. And you will have just have been million to one unlucky if you really werent arbing.

[ozpak]

I don't think so. From the little bit about admin systems I have been shown or told about it stands out from regular bettors like canine testes.

It will only get you flagged if you hit a few at the exact right odds at the exact right moment... which would be unusual to start with if you aren't monitoring them real time (as so many others are, so the window of opportunity is usually small) and even then they will only look at your account based on that. If 99% of your bets aren't arbs, or course they wont think you are just exploiting them for arbs.

Hit a 3rd division Dutch soccer total arb, followed by badminton world cup arb and then a challenger tennis one... all at the right moment and all against the same other book, well they probably wont ask many more questions no matter what percentage of your bets aren't arbs. And you will have just have been million to one unlucky if you really werent arbing.

As I said before, I was only arbing on NBA and NBL lines. Not on small Leagues. You just need to monitor Pinnacle prices movement to catch an arb. Bet365/Tab/Tatts/Luxbet all these sites are ridiculously slow in changing their odds once odds change in Pinnacle. So once you see drift of odds on Pinnacle, log into any other soft book and enjoy confirm profits.

On a side note, In almost 2 months of arbing with betting volume of half a million, I have discovered dirty secrets of these bookmakers. I been banned or limited from almost all bookmakers in Australia now.

Sometime I wonder, these corporate bookmakers are really bookmakers? Their all odds movement now come from Pinnacle odds movements. As an example, I was monitoring Philippines basketball match between Star hotshots and Blackwater Elite on 24th of Feb. Starting odds for Starhotshots on Pinnacle were 1.86. Couple of hours later it dropped to 1.6. At that point I put couple of grand on Star Hotshots and didn't bother to cover my arb because I was so sure that odds will drop further as I was watching odds movement continuously. 5-6 hours later, before start of match odds dropped to 1.15 at Pinnacle and obviously all corporate bookmakers followed the Lead of Pinnacle and dropped odds on Star Hotshots and increase odds on Blackwater Elite. At that point, I just walked in Tab shop and covered my arb with a healthy profit. And this is 1 example only how Bookmakers odds are just based on Pinnacle odds movement.

[Hareeba!]

I don't think so. From the little bit about admin systems I have been shown or told about it stands out from regular bettors like canine testes.

It will only get you flagged if you hit a few at the exact right odds at the exact right moment... which would be unusual to start with if you aren't monitoring them real time (as so many others are, so the window of opportunity is usually small) and even then they will only look at your account based on that. If 99% of your bets aren't arbs, or course they wont think you are just exploiting them for arbs.

Hit a 3rd division Dutch soccer total arb, followed by badminton world cup arb and then a challenger tennis one... all at the right moment and all against the same other book, well they probably wont ask many more questions no matter what percentage of your bets aren't arbs. And you will have just have been million to one unlucky if you really werent arbing.

So I've been "a million to one unlucky" not just once but countless times.
I don't think so.

[Optional]

So I've been "a million to one unlucky" not just once but countless times.
I don't think so.

I dont get the connection you are drawing

Has someone accused you of arbing when booting you at some stage?

If you aren't, then like I said, and as far as I know, there is virtually no chance you have been penalized for arbing ever.

[Optional]

As I said before, I was only arbing on NBA and NBL lines. Not on small Leagues. You just need to monitor Pinnacle prices movement to catch an arb. Bet365/Tab/Tatts/Luxbet all these sites are ridiculously slow in changing their odds once odds change in Pinnacle. So once you see drift of odds on Pinnacle, log into any other soft book and enjoy confirm profits.

On a side note, In almost 2 months of arbing with betting volume of half a million, I have discovered dirty secrets of these bookmakers. I been banned or limited from almost all bookmakers in Australia now.

Sometime I wonder, these corporate bookmakers are really bookmakers? Their all odds movement now come from Pinnacle odds movements. As an example, I was monitoring Philippines basketball match between Star hotshots and Blackwater Elite on 24th of Feb. Starting odds for Starhotshots on Pinnacle were 1.86. Couple of hours later it dropped to 1.6. At that point I put couple of grand on Star Hotshots and didn't bother to cover my arb because I was so sure that odds will drop further as I was watching odds movement continuously. 5-6 hours later, before start of match odds dropped to 1.15 at Pinnacle and obviously all corporate bookmakers followed the Lead of Pinnacle and dropped odds on Star Hotshots and increase odds on Blackwater Elite. At that point, I just walked in Tab shop and covered my arb with a healthy profit. And this is 1 example only how Bookmakers odds are just based on Pinnacle odds movement.

It does suck that a book can be repeatedly slow moving prices and then complain about people hitting them. :\

What you describe is trading not arbitrage though.

[Hareeba!]

I dont get the connection you are drawing

Has someone accused you of arbing when booting you at some stage?

If you aren't, then like I said, and as far as I know, there is virtually no chance you have been penalized for arbing ever.

Most bookies won't talk to you when you ask/complain about limits, just saying it's a final decision by our trading manager or some such.
Bet365 was an exception. They just said effectively my account wasn't profitable for them. But two others I recall accused me of being an arber.

[ozpak]

It does suck that a book can be repeatedly slow moving prices and then complain about people hitting them. :\

What you describe is trading not arbitrage though.

Yes that's trading. I gave that example to illustrate how Corporate bookmakers just follow Pinnacle odds. They are not making any odds anymore themselves. Why they are still called Bookmakers when all they have to do is follow Pinnacle odds by adding their margins? If some corporate company called itself biggest (fav) online bookmaker (like Bet3.65, sportsbet, ladbrokes, Williamhill) then why they need to change the prices based on odds movement on Pinnacles? Why not rely on their own pricing?

[Optional]

Agree Aussie bookmaking industry is shitty for anyone not willing to lose these days ozpak.

Most bookies won't talk to you when you ask/complain about limits, just saying it's a final decision by our trading manager or some such.
Bet365 was an exception. They just said effectively my account wasn't profitable for them. But two others I recall accused me of being an arber.

Honestly, I'd guess anyone that said that was making a wild guess because the odds you bet were consistently good, or just making an easy excuse because you were too good and they wanted rid of you whatever the reason.

I really really doubt you are being mistakenly canned for arbing very often if you aren't doing it. You just couldn't accidentally hit the right things at the right time often enough without trying. You're just getting booted for being too sharp all the time. Small distinction to you I guess in the end. But don't worry about the arbing thing.

[Statman]

Thanks D - Have a better understanding of it now. Seems like one will need a high bankroll spread across a number of books to make this be worthwhile...

It is short for Arbitrage betting. It is a situation in which betting on both sides of an event will result in guaranteed profit. A basic example; one book may have Federer +110 to win the first set vs Nadal and another book may have Nadal +105 to win the first set. This typically requires a high bankroll for it to be worthwhile and best opportunities are found with less popular leagues or lesser known players that don't attract a lot of mainstream betting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage_betting

[ozpak]

Thanks D - Have a better understanding of it now. Seems like one will need a high bankroll spread across a number of books to make this be worthwhile...

Not really. If you spread your bankroll, you will make peanuts. Just have 1 sharp book like pinnacle and 1 softbook like Bet365. Make an arb of minimum $2k-3k with 1.5-3% and you will have confirm profit of $45-$90. You just need to find and place 3 arbs per day to make minimum Australian salary just by sitting at home. Now imagine 2 arbs per day with $10k-15k and you are making anywhere between $150-$450 which is a lot of money for many punters in this forum.

THough to place an arb of $10k and more, you need big heart and you need to know what you are doing. And you can only make this big value arb on major leagues like NBA because in small leagues there will not be any liquidity.

So after placing few arbs with bet365, they will limit you for sure. Now is the time to move to 2nd softbook, then 3rd and forth and so on. Eventually you will be limited on all soft books like me.

The biggest arb I placed myself is of $11k volume with guranteed profit of $250. $250 looks very small amount for a bet amount of $11k but this is 2.3% return on your investment in just one day.

[ManosdePiedra]

Smart book would just keep the "arbers" around to show where the soft line is. Doesn't cost the book anything. But if other side of arb is Pinny or Match-it will often lead to you beating non Pinny book. This they won't allow for long

[SharpyUSA]

Optical - I just want to say thank you so much for all of your help. I have seen you around constantly in the forums and questioning everything and around, only to help them. It may not look like nothing, but your job is extremely hard, because you are being paid to "care" about our money. You definitely deserve a big thank you from everyone.


Also, I was wondering that if a book kicks you out for making too much money with them, does that cause them to get graded lower?