BetOnline is trying to steal $65,000 from me (cliff notes at end)

**pay on time** · 11-22-11, 12:53 AM

I wouldn't put it past these books. Just a bunch of hooligans up to shenanigans. It shouldn't take this long, they're up to something very fishy. The evidence bol is prob. gonna bring to the table is tainted in my eyes. 2-3 days I'm ok with. week+ def tainted.

**bubba** · 11-22-11, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by pay on time

I wouldn't put it past these books. Just a bunch of hooligans up to shenanigans. It shouldn't take this long, they're up to something thats the only reason I mentioned it.

i hope it is just incompetence on their part. definitely a possibility.

even if the op is 100% guilty, betonline is in the wrong not providing the hand histories. just brutal service.

**jaytee20** · 11-22-11, 01:34 AM

Right there on the "recommended" list: BetOnline. B+. How dirty will SBR get over this sleazy scammer?

**mighty maron** · 11-22-11, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by Justin7

Once they provide the hand history, I'll say what I think. If they fail to provide the hand history, they have failed to prove the player cheated, and must pay him.

The real question is: how long is a reasonable time period do provide a hand history? I can understand taking longer than a week. If they are unsure whether the player was dumping or colluding, they would rather analyze the results before giving the hand history to the forum. If the history doesn't support it, they are better off to pay the player before starting a forum shit-storm...

More than 1 week is reasonable. At some point, it is not reasonable. How much time is reasonable to allow a book to analyze hand histories in depth before turning them over to the player (and presumably the public)?

The analysis of the data could take a long time. For this amount, too long rather than too short in the analysis does seem prudent.

Here is why the uproar over the HH. Op wants and is entitled to his entire HH. His rake pays for services like this.

The raw data( every hand he has played there) should have been sent by now. Its data..its a log...no analysis is needed to send to the op...just assemble and send.

Thank you for commenting on this Justin7

**skrtelfan** · 11-22-11, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by Justin7

The real question is: how long is a reasonable time period do provide a hand history? I can understand taking longer than a week. If they are unsure whether the player was dumping or colluding, they would rather analyze the results before giving the hand history to the forum. If the history doesn't support it, they are better off to pay the player before starting a forum shit-storm...

But they already told him "our analysis shows you chip dumped and cheated." Had they put a freeze on his account because of "suspected chip dumping," that would be a different.

I'm not sure of any good reason why a player shouldn't be entitled to his hand histories at any point he so chooses. All poker sites I've played at allow you request hand histories. It varies as to how far back it goes, but I recall at one point having losing some hand histories in a hard drive crash and having some sort of question about something, and Pokerstars was able to send me 6 months of hand histories in a zip file about 4 hours after I asked.

**arichmond64** · 11-22-11, 04:51 AM

Originally posted by skrtelfan

But they already told him "our analysis shows you chip dumped and cheated." Had they put a freeze on his account because of "suspected chip dumping," that would be a different.

I'm not sure of any good reason why a player shouldn't be entitled to his hand histories at any point he so chooses. All poker sites I've played at allow you request hand histories. It varies as to how far back it goes, but I recall at one point having losing some hand histories in a hard drive crash and having some sort of question about something, and Pokerstars was able to send me 6 months of hand histories in a zip file about 4 hours after I asked.

I agree, sending him his HH wouldn't change a thing and shouldn't take longer than a day, its a complete joke.

**Greg242** · 11-22-11, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by SBR Lou

We spoke with mgt. again this morning, BetOnline is still completing the audit.

Any new news or updates Lou?

**Greg242** · 11-22-11, 11:13 AM

UPDATE: I still have not recieved any hand histories and BetOnline continues to come up with new excuses. At this point, today I will be posting all of my conversations with them via LiveChat and email on 2+2 for everyone to see how absurd it is. Also, I have reached out to other sports betting forums and getting other people involved and am doing all that I can. I will not give up.

**sharpcat** · 11-22-11, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

Once they provide the hand history, I'll say what I think. If they fail to provide the hand history, they have failed to prove the player cheated, and must pay him.

The real question is: how long is a reasonable time period do provide a hand history? I can understand taking longer than a week. If they are unsure whether the player was dumping or colluding, they would rather analyze the results before giving the hand history to the forum. If the history doesn't support it, they are better off to pay the player before starting a forum shit-storm...

More than 1 week is reasonable. At some point, it is not reasonable. How much time is reasonable to allow a book to analyze hand histories in depth before turning them over to the player (and presumably the public)?

Your the one who was calling for Easystreet's head after reviewing the case for not even 3 days stating that they were not supplying you with the hand history.

Why is Betonline any different than Easystreet here? They called the player a cheat so why can they not hand over the evidence that led to their conclusion of him being a cheat?

**BigDaddy** · 11-22-11, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by sharpcat

Your the one who was calling for Easystreet's head after reviewing the case for not even 3 days stating that they were not supplying you with the hand history.

Why is Betonline any different than Easystreet here? They called the player a cheat so why can they not hand over the evidence that led to their conclusion of him being a cheat?

Justin is that true?

**SBR Lou** · 11-22-11, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Greg242

Any new news or updates Lou?

Greg,

I sent you an update by email.

**KEdge2k** · 11-22-11, 01:52 PM

Patiently waiting for Greg to post the update...

**Justin7** · 11-22-11, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by sharpcat

Your the one who was calling for Easystreet's head after reviewing the case for not even 3 days stating that they were not supplying you with the hand history.

Why is Betonline any different than Easystreet here? They called the player a cheat so why can they not hand over the evidence that led to their conclusion of him being a cheat?

EZStreet's case was very different. They argued that the player used a bot. They didn't have a rule against a bot without AI. They made no attempt to prove Cory used a bot with A.I. I was able to reach a decision on that without a hand history, although the hand history was damning for them also.

**HedgeHog** · 11-22-11, 02:00 PM

And why is that SBR sends its top gun (J7) after a nonsponsor Book (EZ); complete with a video, newswire updates and a free spam thread handed over to the accuser; but takes a much weaker approach on multiple cases against sponsor 5D and now this one involving BOL (which actually stands for Best Of Luck--- getting paid that is)? BOL says it found evidence of cheating, so where is it? It shouldn't take a week+ to provide it.

Also, while all this is going on, why doesn't this case deserve a mention on the news page? I would think a potential theft of 65k (which exceeds the 46k taken in the EZ case ) is newsworthy.

**BigDaddy** · 11-22-11, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by HedgeHog

And why is that SBR sends its top gun (J7) after a nonsponsor Book (EZ)

J7 can not take on every case SBR gets

Lou is more than capable of handling this case

give him a shot.

**Greg242** · 11-22-11, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by KEdge2k

Patiently waiting for Greg to post the update...

Lou said that they are still in contact with management and spoke again with them today. He said my case is taking longer to review then expected. The audit should complete a full overview. He will let me know when the process is completed.

Thank you for the updates Lou.

**HedgeHog** · 11-22-11, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by BigDaddy

J7 can not take on every case SBR gets

Lou is more than capable of handling this case

give him a shot.

Not saying Lou isn't capable--he is. However, Justin has much more experience in this area but he seems to be spared from big cases involving sponsor Books lately. Also, to show some resemblance of impartiality, this BOL case deserves mention on the news page. Doesn't it?

**mighty maron** · 11-22-11, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Greg242

Lou said that they are still in contact with management and spoke again with them today. He said my case is taking longer to review then expected. The audit should complete a full overview. He will let me know when the process is completed.

Thank you for the updates Lou.

what was the explanation of the non-disclosure of the hand history?

**scott235** · 11-22-11, 02:28 PM

Greg42, YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE OF GETTING THIS MONEY! I feel bad for you.

**mighty maron** · 11-22-11, 02:34 PM

Playsafe Holding AS is the parent company of actionpoker and other sites that comprise the action poker network. How does a skin of that site (BOL) operate on a network whose parent company is a publically held company with stock. When the UIGEA became law sites like Party poker and all other publically held sites left the US market quoting shareholder vulnerability. Has Playsafe found a way around this?

**scott235** · 11-22-11, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by mighty maron

what was the explanation of the non-disclosure of the hand history?

The longer it takes them to provide it, the more it makes this guy look legit. Obviously there is nothing in the HH to hang this guy with, so they will either try to alter it, or if that doesn't work ...accuse him of something else. Ultimately, all they have to do is float it out there that greg42 may be a scam artist...and you all know how this will end.

**Greg242** · 11-22-11, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by mighty maron

what was the explanation of the non-disclosure of the hand history?

There was no explanation in his email. I emailed him backing asking him some specific questions and this was one of them. It is so absurd.

**pay on time** · 11-22-11, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by scott235

The longer it takes them to provide it, the more it makes this guy look legit. Obviously there is nothing in the HH to hang this guy with, so they will either try to alter it, or if that doesn't work ...accuse him of something else. Ultimately, all they have to do is float it out there that greg42 may be a scam artist...and you all know how this will end.

Exactly! BOL explination is no longer valid in my opinion.

**WileOut** · 11-22-11, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by pay on time

Exactly! BOL explination is no longer valid in my opinion.

Guys cmon now. For one thing Betonline is not a poker site like PokerStars and FullTilt. It will take them longer to get hand histories together and I'm sure much longer to analyze them. Poker is probably their 3rd concern behind sports and casino. I'm not making excuses for them I am just giving reality. This is a case involving lots of money, and many hands involving probably lots of different people. I'm sure BO wants to get this right. BO has never stiffed anyone, so to claim they are not valid anymore simply because you aren't getting your drama fix quick enough is ridiculous.

Like I said, this is a lot of money here. BetOnline does not have the resources to conduct research as fast as PS or FT did. I don't know why they did not send hand history when requested but lets wait to hear the conclusion before we deem a place valid or invalid. Just be patient and wait till it all comes out.

**scott235** · 11-22-11, 03:45 PM

BOL is a SBR sponser. Greg42 HAS ZERO CHANCE OF WINNING THIS DISPUTE.

**framboise** · 11-22-11, 03:46 PM

Isn't it a little strange that we haven't heard anything from the individual(s) who have been found to have chip dumping with Greg242 ?

**KEdge2k** · 11-22-11, 03:47 PM

BOL has to realize that the longer they hold out this HH, the more they leave themselves open to claims of HH alteration.

In fact, I can't really think of a legitimate reason to withhold it this long unless there was attempted alteration going on.

**bubba** · 11-22-11, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by KEdge2k

BOL has to realize that the longer they hold out this HH, the more they leave themselves open to claims of HH alteration.

In fact, I can't really think of a legitimate reason to withhold it this long unless there was attempted alteration going on.

maybe incompetence? at this point that is there best defense

**wrongturn** · 11-22-11, 04:04 PM

If OP won't get his money, who will? Refund to losing players?

**scott235** · 11-22-11, 04:05 PM

BOL and SBR have already made their decision on this one. What is taking so long is the crafting of the "artful and creative" explanation of why greg42 is going to take it dry up his arse.

**d00d** · 11-22-11, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by scott235

BOL and SBR have already made their decision on this one. What is taking so long is the crafting of the "artful and creative" explanation of why greg42 is going to take it dry up his arse.

thats what happened to me.

http://d00d.mysbrforum.com/blog/66964-i-won-over-1800-live-betting-bookmaker-they-voided-it.html

**Greg242** · 11-22-11, 04:12 PM

MAJOR NEWS AND UPDATE: I will be posting this in all of my threads. A few days ago I got a PM from someone of 2+2 saying they had the same story as me. I ended up talking to this person and his name is Jamin Stokes and he is a well known professional poker player. I promised I would not release this information or his name until he told me I could do so because he asked me not to do so. He also was going to go public with his story today if he did not get an answer by today. This exact same thing happened to him. They froze his account accused him of chip dumping and would not send him the hand histories. Luckily he was more fortunate than me and today he was able to get them to unfreeze his account. He personally told them about my situation and how it has taken longer for me and he said the manager said that he would personally look into it right away. This sounds like amazing news but I will not be too optimistic until I am able to touch my money. Thank you Jamin Stokes for letting me post your name publically and helping me out in this situation.

**d00d** · 11-22-11, 04:13 PM

sleazy place that BOL

**BrianLaverty** · 11-22-11, 04:37 PM

What a joke... where is Alex in this whole thing?

**tropolis** · 11-22-11, 04:40 PM

taking the contrarian approach, anyone think the op made this all up?

hes very specific, almost too specific. not saying he did, im throwing out a counter argument. i just notice from the past sometimes when one is very specific it makes it seem less real.