BetOnline is trying to steal $65,000 from me (cliff notes at end)

**rick50time** · 11-21-11, 09:12 AM

they are crooks they have also robbed me ...

**KEdge2k** · 11-21-11, 10:36 AM

Any further updates here Lou?

**Legions36** · 11-21-11, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by rick50time

they are crooks they have also robbed me ...

Care to share with us your story?

**tropolis** · 11-21-11, 11:12 AM

the obvious truth is this book doesnt have 65k it can pay out to this guy.

there is no recourse if they dont pay. what can sbr do if betonline doesnt pay?

betonline has a large marketing program, hiring people like jenn sterger to advertise for them. they dont need sbr and they know it.

**skrtelfan** · 11-21-11, 11:26 AM

These guys historically are slow to do anything. In this instance, telling the player he was caught chip dumping without producing any evidence or hand histories after several weeks is simply absurd. There was a big dispute last year where they graded a guy's CBB future wrong (they cloned lines from the Greek and didn't realize they were copying a CBB regular season future rather than a tournament one.) The decision should have been open and shut because some of the other futures in the same section were bets on the division winners of the conferences that are split into divisions, which means the bets were obviously meant to be regular season, and it took BetOnline over a month to grade the player's wager correctly.

**AlwaysDrawing** · 11-21-11, 11:49 AM

I'm interested in what mgmt is saying. Did you hear from them Lou?

**Legions36** · 11-21-11, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by tropolis

the obvious truth is this book doesnt have 65k it can pay out to this guy.

there is no recourse if they dont pay. what can sbr do if betonline doesnt pay?

betonline has a large marketing program, hiring people like jenn sterger to advertise for them. they dont need sbr and they know it.

I highly doubt SBR would rate them a B+ book if they couldn't payout 65k to someone, get a grip man this is a huge book.

**mighty maron** · 11-21-11, 01:27 PM

Has op received the Hand Histories that he has requested on numerous occasions?

**mighty maron** · 11-21-11, 01:35 PM

Call for the $65K Betonline Poker confiscation to be put on the SBR Newswire

The amount is large enough to make headlines.
The book is not providing OP Hand histories upon request for over a week.

Action Poker Network and BetOnline.com both deny that BOL is on a poker network that is closed to USA customers....evidence to the contrary

http://pokerscout.com/SiteDetail.asp...n&ab=990896585 Scroll to near the bottom of the webpage for listing of sites on network and that network is closed to USA.

**Greg242** · 11-21-11, 01:42 PM

I got an email from Lou this morning saying apparently BetOnline wrote back yesterday and he will be writing as soon as the audit is completed.

Still have recieved no hand histories ...

**BigDaddy** · 11-21-11, 01:56 PM

maron what is your agenda?

who do you work for?

**d00d** · 11-21-11, 01:57 PM

I will never deposit a penny in this book

**mighty maron** · 11-21-11, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by BigDaddy

maron what is your agenda?

who do you work for?

I am an irked USA poker player. First and foremost I am irked about my govt decisions on online poker and what people can and can not do with their own money.

I am irked that most reasonable options for USA poker stink...

Merge network...checks only for USA 4 to 6 weeks to get one
Cake Network...slow pay central (months) with the exception of Intertops.
Bodog is decent at what they do.

I tire of places that drag their feet to pay or look for reasons not to pay someone. BOL by not releasing the HH certainly makes it look like something foul is afoot.

God do I miss 2003 and 2004...USA online poker is dead. The remainder of the sites seem to be doing their very worst in scaring new customers away by long payout times and taking rolls without supplying info to a third party to review.

**KEdge2k** · 11-21-11, 02:20 PM

The lack of hand histories being provided to the player -- when that appears to be BOL's main justification for withholding payment from him -- is inexcusable and, to me, sure starts to smell like they are trying to manufacture the data when it just isn't there.

I hope SBR holds their feet to the fire on this one.

**bubba** · 11-21-11, 03:31 PM

why cant betonline release the hand histories to the player (and public) while continuing to "conduct their audit"?

**arichmond64** · 11-21-11, 04:05 PM

This think stinks like hell, sounds like they will just find some weird hand and try to convince people it was collusion or chip dumping.

I am very surprised you don't have any sort of tracker at all, its bread and butter for any semi serious online poker player.

**Greg242** · 11-21-11, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by arichmond64

This think stinks like hell, sounds like they will just find some weird hand and try to convince people it was collusion or chip dumping.

I am very surprised you don't have any sort of tracker at all, its bread and butter for any semi serious online poker player.

I do use PT3 but PT3 and HEM as well as any other type of tracker is not compatible with BetOnline and therefore can not be used. Like I said before I made a HUGE mistake by not saving all of the hand histories straight to my computer, but I never thought I would be in a situation like this where a site is literally refusing to send me the hand histories even when they accuse me of cheating and freeze $65,000 in my account.

**mighty maron** · 11-21-11, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Greg242

I do use PT3 but PT3 and HEM as well as any other type of tracker is not compatible with BetOnline and therefore can not be used. Like I said before I made a HUGE mistake by not saving all of the hand histories straight to my computer, but I never thought I would be in a situation like this where a site is literally refusing to send me the hand histories even when they accuse me of cheating and freeze $65,000 in my account.

Good Luck but once again...SBR refuses to answer the question on whether it is a reasonable action to with-hold the entire HH from OP and a third party mediator like SBR.

Im done posting in this thread....its going nowhere...OP I think your money is gone...gl I hope Im wrong but it doesnt look it

**arichmond64** · 11-21-11, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Greg242

I do use PT3 but PT3 and HEM as well as any other type of tracker is not compatible with BetOnline and therefore can not be used. Like I said before I made a HUGE mistake by not saving all of the hand histories straight to my computer, but I never thought I would be in a situation like this where a site is literally refusing to send me the hand histories even when they accuse me of cheating and freeze $65,000 in my account.

Yeh of course you can't see this coming.

Im surprised they dont automatically save to your PC any way, is it the same with sites like stars, (full tilt), party etc?

**arichmond64** · 11-21-11, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by mighty maron

Good Luck but once again...SBR refuses to answer the question on whether it is a reasonable action to with-hold the entire HH from OP and a third party mediator like SBR.

Im done posting in this thread....its going nowhere...OP I think your money is gone...gl I hope Im wrong but it doesnt look it

If this isn't something what 100% calls for SBR to sort, then I don't know what is.

OP what have people said on 2 + 2?

**cloverfield** · 11-21-11, 04:25 PM

IMHO they are going to have an awfully long time to come up with some type of story that will probably not favor you very much in the end. You deal with a book that has 10000 complaints in this forum, is an advertiser, and is still rated highly you're asking for it.

BOL

**Greg242** · 11-21-11, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by mighty maron

Good Luck but once again...SBR refuses to answer the question on whether it is a reasonable action to with-hold the entire HH from OP and a third party mediator like SBR.

Im done posting in this thread....its going nowhere...OP I think your money is gone...gl I hope Im wrong but it doesnt look it

I agree, can I please get an answer to this question. Is it reasonable for a site/poker site to accuse a player of cheating and take their money without ever releasing the hand history to ther person they took the money from or a third party moderator?

**tropolis** · 11-21-11, 06:46 PM

Greg242, you decide what your going to do if BOL doesn't pay? I think this is ezstreet 2.0

**HedgeHog** · 11-21-11, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by tropolis

Greg242, you decide what your going to do if BOL doesn't pay? I think this is ezstreet 2.0

Except that there will be no Justin7 video and SBR surely won't let Greg bump a complaint thread hourly for over 3 months against a sponsor Book.

**DHB** · 11-21-11, 09:42 PM

good luck greg, hope u get ur money man.
what a scary situation ur in!

**Justin7** · 11-21-11, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by HedgeHog

Except that there will be no Justin7 video and SBR surely won't let Greg bump a complaint thread hourly for over 3 months against a sponsor Book.

Once they provide the hand history, I'll say what I think. If they fail to provide the hand history, they have failed to prove the player cheated, and must pay him.

The real question is: how long is a reasonable time period do provide a hand history? I can understand taking longer than a week. If they are unsure whether the player was dumping or colluding, they would rather analyze the results before giving the hand history to the forum. If the history doesn't support it, they are better off to pay the player before starting a forum shit-storm...

More than 1 week is reasonable. At some point, it is not reasonable. How much time is reasonable to allow a book to analyze hand histories in depth before turning them over to the player (and presumably the public)?

**bubba** · 11-21-11, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

Once they provide the hand history, I'll say what I think. If they fail to provide the hand history, they have failed to prove the player cheated, and must pay him.

The real question is: how long is a reasonable time period do provide a hand history? I can understand taking longer than a week. If they are unsure whether the player was dumping or colluding, they would rather analyze the results before giving the hand history to the forum. If the history doesn't support it, they are better off to pay the player before starting a forum shit-storm...

More than 1 week is reasonable. At some point, it is not reasonable. How much time is reasonable to allow a book to analyze hand histories in depth before turning them over to the player (and presumably the public)?

i dont think 1 week is reasonable. they either have proof or they dont. keep in mind they are delaying a players payout. its his hand history. maybe take 48 hours to review it further. how many man hours do they need? its someones money they are holding onto. this should be taking all there priority. 7 days, 10 employees a day reviewing for 10 hours a day is 7000 hours spent reviewing. its unreasonable. this should have top priority. its not their money.

if betonline needs all this time to review the hand histories before releasing them to player, cant they say this? have they?

**Justin7** · 11-21-11, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by bubba

i dont think 1 week is reasonable. they either have proof or they dont. keep in mind they are delaying a players payout. its his hand history. maybe take 48 hours to review it further. how many man hours do they need? its someones money they are holding onto. this should be taking all there priority. 7 days, 10 employees a day reviewing for 10 hours a day is 7000 hours spent reviewing. its unreasonable. this should have top priority. its not their money.

if betonline needs all this time to review the hand histories before releasing them to player, cant they say this? have they?

Most sportsbooks don't even have one person qualified to analyze collusion or chip dumping. You think they have 10?

**bubba** · 11-21-11, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

Most sportsbooks don't even have one person qualified to analyze collusion or chip dumping. You think they have 10?

all the more reason to release the hand history. they are sitting on it with nobody even qualified to analyze im sure.

you think they even have 1 person devoting 8 hours a day to analyzing this?? is there any doubt that this does not have the priority it deserves at betonline headquarters?

if they offer just a little bit of proof that the 65k does not belong to the op i am then ok with them taking a while on this. apparently there has been none of this.

im surprsied they are not blaming the delay on 3rd party processors.

**Greg242** · 11-21-11, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Justin7

Once they provide the hand history, I'll say what I think. If they fail to provide the hand history, they have failed to prove the player cheated, and must pay him.

The real question is: how long is a reasonable time period do provide a hand history? I can understand taking longer than a week. If they are unsure whether the player was dumping or colluding, they would rather analyze the results before giving the hand history to the forum. If the history doesn't support it, they are better off to pay the player before starting a forum shit-storm...

More than 1 week is reasonable. At some point, it is not reasonable. How much time is reasonable to allow a book to analyze hand histories in depth before turning them over to the player (and presumably the public)?

I agree giving them a little time is reasonable but I have been asking since November 11th so it has now been 10 days. Also within this stretch of asking for the HH multiple times I have been promised twice I would recieved them in the next 24 hours and never did so.

**Greg242** · 11-21-11, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by bubba

i dont think 1 week is reasonable. they either have proof or they dont. keep in mind they are delaying a players payout. its his hand history. maybe take 48 hours to review it further. how many man hours do they need? its someones money they are holding onto. this should be taking all there priority. 7 days, 10 employees a day reviewing for 10 hours a day is 7000 hours spent reviewing. its unreasonable. this should have top priority. its not their money.

if betonline needs all this time to review the hand histories before releasing them to player, cant they say this? have they?

They have not said this. There excuses have ranged from the hand history is "too massive to send" to other things about the manager not sending them the right information etc... It is a new excuse every time and I still have not gotten a single hand history in 10 days. I am still in disbelief they are outright stealing from me.

**bubba** · 11-21-11, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by Greg242

They have not said this. There excuses have ranged from the hand history is "too massive to send" to other things about the manager not sending them the right information etc... It is a new excuse every time and I still have not gotten a single hand history in 10 days. I am still in disbelief they are outright stealing from me.

i still have hope for you. i have had large balances (over the 65k u are owed if memory serves correct) there in the past and always got paid eventually. they really are just slow at paying and getting there shit together. embarrassingly slow. hopefully this is just another case of their incompetence in doing something in a timely matter.

**slash** · 11-21-11, 11:25 PM

BOL has apparently already concluded that the player is a scammer so why the delay? To reach this conclusion they must have analyzed his hand history, and they must have found the hands where Greg is cheating. So what's causing the delay?

At the very second BOL claimed the player is cheating they should release all their findings supporting this. And afterwards, a 3rd party should go through the 'proof' provided by BOL and establish whether it is valid and whether BOL has manipulated the proof or not.

Only one I will trust to do this from sbr is justin7. He seems to post his real opinion and is not influenced by a book being sbr sponsor.

**pay on time** · 11-22-11, 12:25 AM

Guys settle down!! Don't you know it takes time to analyze and FORGE a hand history! In all seriousness, is it possible for a book to forge hand history? Knowing OP has no data saved therefore, being able to change some things around to make it look like the player was "colluding?" Just saying, this is what I would be doing if I was a top head at bol.

**Greg242** · 11-22-11, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by pay on time

Guys settle down!! Don't you know it takes time to analyze and FORGE a hand history! In all seriousness, is it possible for a book to forge hand history? Knowing OP has no data saved therefore, being able to change some things around to make it look like the player was "colluding?" Just saying, this is what I would be doing if I was a top head at bol.

Multiple people having been asking this in all of my threads. I have no idea myself, but this possiblility never crossed my mind until people started asking about it and it is now starting to scare me also.