5 Dimes takes back $32K in casino winnings

[boondoggle]

This is why you don't play at 5dimes.

[jboy4]

For U.S players, betjamaica and the Greek stand alone......

[boondoggle]

For U.S players, betjamaica and the Greek stand alone......

I totally agree. USA players do just fine with TheGreek, BetJam and Bookmaker. If Bookmaker had dimelines for bases I would play no where else. Bookmaker has the best mobile app for wagering to date.

[StraitShooter]

TB, I don't think you'll get the full 32K. Tony was open to a number, though. I would have thrown out '5 Dimes', and kept it light. Basically Tony would be paying you for beta testing; which his casino is obviously in need of. The game did have a ridiculous advantage, so your funds were never at risk, in Dozer speak. 32K in a couple of hours is too much. You didn't win it. You exploited a mistake. There is a difference.

One of the best post I have read as far as I have gotten

Tackleberry..listen to me and listen to me good..and this comes from a guy who has lost alot more than 32k in tony's casino

this was the equivalent of betting a bad line..the book is not going to pay you

before this goes any further meaning immediately..make tony a fair settlement offer..you deposited 50 bucks so you are not rich

unless you do what I say the only thing you will gain from this experience is a awful taste in your mouth

talk to tony..tell him about your wasted time, plans for all the cash, your past integrity etc

ask him nicely for a few hundred bucks or a K or 2 if you feel bold

anyone why tells you you will see several K is lying to you and only piss tony off more..once he is pissed off you wont c another dime

so...forget about the big cash..be super happy with few hundred buck..maybe cash and free plays if you are lucky

if you do not listen to me you will not see a red cent and twenty bucks is twenty bucks..start a thread here and ask to borrow 20 bucks and see how that goes

learn from cory too!..anything...something is better than nothing

dont listen to the majority here..anyone who quits playing at 5 dimes because of this is only screwing themselves!

The window you have to get a few hundred bucks here will be a short one..dont fuk itr up are you will be sucking your thumbs this weekend when you could have some decent cash here

Good Luck whatever you do-SS

[pokerplayer22]

What a total joke and stiffjob this has become. I was a 5dimes advocate and played there religously...That will now end. And i also think that SBR should be ashamed of themselves for the way they handled this. For Bill to say there is nothing he could do is as big of a lie as EZstreets many lies in their dispute. Without a doubt, he could have told Tony to pay tacklebery 5-10k and close his acct, or else they will be downgraded to a C. Isnt that why SBR is here?? I always belived that SBR was so much more honest than therx, but the truth is that they are the same. They are both all about the mighty dollar and really dont give a shit about doing whats right when it comes to one of their precious sponsors.

Very disappointed

[shari91]

Strait:

I had two breif phone conversations with Bill from sbr today. He spoke to Tony on my behalf. Tony was unwilling to move on his original decision. Bill said he had nothing he could use to push harder for me to get paid. I just spoke with Tony again on livechat. My account has be reactivated and I have a freeplay in the amount I am down lifetime at 5Dimes, this works out to a little over 1% of the amount involved in this dispute. It also comes with a 17.5x rollover on any winnings from the freeplay. I will play, hopefully win a couple bucks and then end my relationship with 5Dimes. How they have conducted themselves in these circumstances make me not want to do buisness with them in the future. Obviously this not an outcome I am happy with but it is what it is. Could I have done better if I negotiated with Tony yesterday? Yes I'm sure I would have, how much better? Who knows and I won't lose any sleep over it. I know some people have made some pretty harsh statements towards Bill in the other thread. I would like to publicly say that I certainly have no ill will towards him. Over the phone he seems like a legitimately good guy. I do think that how 5Dimes did choose to handle this case was not that of an "A" book and that SBR needs to carefully review their current rating. If anyone has any questions I will do my best to answer them.

[StraitShooter]

Look..I sure as hell aint lookin for enemies here.DarkHorse made some good post and got kicked around already

Dont you guys understand this is no different than betting a bad line?

This guy could not have lost if he tried to..almost like those books that let you bet free no money casino games..you never lose..as soon as you play for real cash you lose your ass off

I have no dog in this fight..but words of wisdom..tackleberry get what little you can and run for the hills and dont look back

[shari91]

See above

[StraitShooter]

well I guess I should have kept reading this thread until I posted..I was just excited and the thread was running long..thks shari

all I have left to say is GO HEAT!!!!

[DitKent]

i must have that having spoke to tony over livechat in the past, he is the most arrogant,rude and unprofessional wanka I have ever encountered.

[lt56]

I had two breif phone conversations with Bill from sbr today. He spoke to Tony on my behalf. Tony was unwilling to move on his original decision. Bill said he had nothing he could use to push harder for me to get paid.

I just spoke with Tony again on livechat. My account has be reactivated and I have a freeplay in the amount I am down lifetime at 5Dimes, this works out to a little over 1% of the amount involved in this dispute. It also comes with a 17.5x rollover on any winnings from the freeplay. I will play, hopefully win a couple bucks and then end my relationship with 5Dimes. How they have conducted themselves in these circumstances make me not want to do buisness with them in the future.

Obviously this not an outcome I am happy with but it is what it is. Could I have done better if I negotiated with Tony yesterday? Yes I'm sure I would have, how much better? Who knows and I won't lose any sleep over it.

I know some people have made some pretty harsh statements towards Bill in the other thread. I would like to publicly say that I certainly have no ill will towards him. Over the phone he seems like a legitimately good guy.

I do think that how 5Dimes did choose to handle this case was not that of an "A" book and that SBR needs to carefully review their current rating.

If anyone has any questions I will do my best to answer them.

You say you wouldn't want to do business with 5Dimes. Well; do you think 5Dimes or any other book would want to do business with you? You join their sites and search for errors and then try to capitalize on their mistakes? Only a handful of people here see this? I thought this was about gambling; you didn't gamble. You saw a ridiculous error of +390 and instead of calling the book and pointing out the error and maybe getting some credit or free plays for being decent; you turn around and try to rip the book off. You send in a measely $50 because you know you'll have 5 figures within hours. That's gambling? And then before you can withdraw; 5Dimes catches their mistake; so you come here and trash 5Dimes. Good to see you got next to nothing. Your mistake wasn't that you didn't negotiate with Tony after you robbed him; your mistake was that you saw an error and tried to win huge off of it instead of trying to get a few free plays

[Dark Horse]

Look..I sure as hell aint lookin for enemies here.DarkHorse made some good post and got kicked around already

Dont you guys understand this is no different than betting a bad line?

This guy could not have lost if he tried to..almost like those books that let you bet free no money casino games..you never lose..as soon as you play for real cash you lose your ass off

I have no dog in this fight..but words of wisdom..tackleberry get what little you can and run for the hills and dont look back

As I mentioned in the other thread, at the rate the player was knowingly exploiting the enormous error at the casino, he would have turned his original 50 bucks into 20 million in another two hours. Know what. Tag on another two hours for a nice fat check of 13 billion.

Following the prevailing mob logic in this thread, the shot taker should have been paid. They would all celebrate. Justice had been done. Only one problem. Because of this one shot taker, the other players at 5D could have kissed their money goodbye. That's what's wrong with the mob mentality. Not once have these people addressed the difference between beating the casino fair and square and the shot taking by Tackleberry.

Think about it. If Tackleberry thought he was playing by the rules, why did he stop at 32K? Why, when he could have been set for life in just a few more hours?

[Dr.Gonzo]

Think about it. If Tackleberry thought he was playing by the rules, why did he stop at 32K? Why, when he could have been set for life in just a few more hours?

Because of douchebags like you.

[lt56]

Look..I sure as hell aint lookin for enemies here.DarkHorse made some good post and got kicked around already

Dont you guys understand this is no different than betting a bad line?

This guy could not have lost if he tried to..almost like those books that let you bet free no money casino games..you never lose..as soon as you play for real cash you lose your ass off

I have no dog in this fight..but words of wisdom..tackleberry get what little you can and run for the hills and dont look back

Can't believe so few agree with StraitShooter and Dark Horse--this guys sees a +390 error and quickly turns it into $32K--that's not gambling what he did--a mistake payout is the same as a bad line; so he gets next to nothing. Only a complete sucker or fool would pay this guy.

[chachi]

My final thoughts about the debacle which is masquerading as a professional online casino at 5Dimes is this:

Any licensed bricks-and-mortar casino which had a payout card on a machine matching the programming, and tried to deny payout on a jackpot, would have extreme difficulty defending such a position with a licensing board, ombudsman or arbitrator who heard the complaint.

This is not, as some claim, the same as a mistakenly entered +55 spread instead of +5.5, or +3000 odds instead of +300 or similar ...

Tony's final denigrating comments to Clark about Clark's math prowess is absolutely fricking hysterical given the past few weeks

[warriorfan707]

tony you skumbag

if we ever met i would have you walking the fukkin corner to make me a few dollars you fukkin chump

[King Mayan]

Fukk Tony and NoDimes.

[warriorfan707]

Betjamaica and the greek just advanced to #1

[Dr.Gonzo]

Because of douchebags like you.

Perhaps calling you a douchebag was harsh but your argument is opaque in my opinion.

You are biased because the US government is a totalitarian state and thus the offshore sportsbook world is limited for people such as yourself. You are quite happy to grind out a profit from a small profit margin. You do not wish for the offshore market for US citizens to become any weaker so you try and protect your vested interest. This is why you routinely side with the sportsbook.

You are a smart guy but in my opinion you sound like a religious zealot.

[Dark Horse]

Not quite. The reason why I often side with sportsbooks is that they know this business much better than the average poster. It is true that I see good books as my business associates, who, for a small fee, allow me to take the money of other players, many of whom don't understand this business beyond 'gotta beat the book!' This thread is a good illustration. They would happily argue that 13 billion for 6 hours at a casino is fine, because the casino made the mistake and should own up to it. For the record, nowhere in this or related topics have I said that the 5D casino is not at fault.

[zabula11]

No wonder that they took it.. but dont worry, you are not getting anything back... it will be just same as in my case... 5 Dimes reamins A+, money gone away...

[cyberinvestor]

Can't believe so few agree with StraitShooter and Dark Horse--this guys sees a +390 error and quickly turns it into $32K--that's not gambling what he did--a mistake payout is the same as a bad line; so he gets next to nothing. Only a complete sucker or fool would pay this guy.

There is an underlying mob mentality with a level of anger that is akin to the abortion debate in America. In the Zabula case people were arguing the bot rule itself which totally misses the point of the whole case. You can't use a bot in Vegas and you can't use it online in any situation, enough said. But if you fought that position the anger was overwhelming. I was attacked but nobody could disagree with the point of no bot in Vegas, no bot online.

I agree with DarkHorse and StraitShooter. If this game were 115%-130% EV and he exploited it, he should be paid. A 390% edge is an obvious error. He took a shot and hoped because he was doing it as a human he would be paid. He knew what he was doing and that is why he only deposited $50. So if Tony screwed him he wouldn't be out a lot of money either.

In the end he got $300-400 in free play. Not horrible since he can again take a free shot but by no means is it $32,000. I hope TB can turn it cleanly into thousands.

The problem with 5Dimes and its disputes is Tony. Tony has slapped so many people on these forums (right or wrong) that they are so fired up against him, they will say Tony MUST PAY (TheGreen) before the case and facts even come out. When Tony wins they feel Tony is rubbing their faces in it and these folks go off the deep end and feel there is some conspiracy. It becomes a riot and not a debate.

I have yet to see 5Dimes not pay someone on a sports bet that had the correct line and was put in on time. I have yet to see someone hit huge parlays back to back and everything in the parlay was fair and an A+ book not pay. If I missed such a complaint please let me know. To me that is what matters in picking a book. The day Tony or another A+ book cheats a player in that way and refuses to pay them and SBR sides with the A+ book, then I agree that SBR loses all credibility. Until then, people not paid for using bots or trying to take free shots at HUGE +EV errors in the casino do not play into what is a good book, for me. Since I am not trying to take free shots or trying to break/bend rules. All I want is to bet at a book, take a baseball side or a 10 team parlay, win and collect. If the book will pay me in those cases without issue, thanks and good night!

[Dr.Gonzo]

That's just it isn't it. You're smart enough to realize the sportsbook is your friend. As a pro you're real enemy is the player.

[Jim Morrison]

I agree with DarkHorse and StraitShooter. If this game were 115%-130% EV and he exploited it, he should be paid. A 390% edge is an obvious error. He took a shot and hoped because he was doing it as a human he would be paid. He knew what he was doing and that is why he only deposited $50. So if Tony screwed him he wouldn't be out a lot of money either.

What if it was 135%? 150%? What point do you say no the player should not be paid? Because Tony is a complete moron and wants to offer +EV games but failed math so badly that he offered it at 390% he should get off and not have to pay? But if he entered it as a 130% game he should pay? Why? How do you draw the line? He offered the game to the player, the player made money, the player should be paid or the book rogued. End of discussion as far as I can see.

[cyberinvestor]

What if it was 135%? 150%? What point do you say no the player should not be paid? Because Tony is a complete moron and wants to offer +EV games but failed math so badly that he offered it at 390% he should get off and not have to pay? But if he entered it as a 130% game he should pay? Why? How do you draw the line? He offered the game to the player, the player made money, the player should be paid or the book rogued. End of discussion as far as I can see.

Agree on your point as to where the cutoff would be. I would like to know that point as well. I think 20%-30% above a normal payout would be an error that could be within the realm of possibility. This is only my opinion of course. I think once you get to 150% (or 50% higher than an even game) you are getting into tough to argue territory but 390% just blows that away. Which is what makes it easy, in this case and game, to side with 5Dimes.

My problem with TB is he didn't innocently play the game and win. Everything from the start and his own admission was to exploit what he saw. While 5Dimes casino is a mess, he acted with this intent. Continuing to play knowing he could not lose. Trying to stop at a point where he thought he could be under the radar enough. Although, I think he went way too high and would love to know had he stopped around $3000-5000 in profit if he would have been caught. Seems Zabula was able to get away with squeezing small amounts out.

Guys like Zabula and TB, need to stop going for the jugular. Slowly bleed the prey and then it stays alive so you can suck more blood. Stop blowing the doors off so it is obvious something fishy goes on. If TB bought in for $500 and turned it into $2000 and bet some sports then went back to his ATM of a video poker machine every now and again, he could have made a living out of this possibly for months before getting caught. Small hits, small withdrawals, mix up your action.

[clowncar]

Can't believe so few agree with StraitShooter and Dark Horse--this guys sees a +390 error and quickly turns it into $32K--that's not gambling what he did--a mistake payout is the same as a bad line; so he gets next to nothing. Only a complete sucker or fool would pay this guy.

I agree with them. I just think anything less than a 100k loss for the casino should be acceptable to them for this type of error. The combined loss between the two people who took advantage of it was a little higher than that. I don't want to spend the time figuring out what is fair for the fella who won over 100k but 32k to this player is reasonable imo.

Also to the person who mentions how much he deposited ... he didn't deposit so small because he knew how fast it would grow, he deposited so small because he both knew how fast it would grow and how likely it was to be confiscated.

[clowncar]

Agree on your point as to where the cutoff would be. I would like to know that point as well. I think 20%-30% above a normal payout would be an error that could be within the realm of possibility. This is only my opinion of course. I think once you get to 150% (or 50% higher than an even game) you are getting into tough to argue territory but 390% just blows that away. Which is what makes it easy, in this case and game, to side with 5Dimes.

My problem with TB is he didn't innocently play the game and win. Everything from the start and his own admission was to exploit what he saw. While 5Dimes casino is a mess, he acted with this intent. Continuing to play knowing he could not lose. Trying to stop at a point where he thought he could be under the radar enough. Although, I think he went way too high and would love to know had he stopped around $3000-5000 in profit if he would have been caught. Seems Zabula was able to get away with squeezing small amounts out.

Guys like Zabula and TB, need to stop going for the jugular. Slowly bleed the prey and then it stays alive so you can suck more blood. Stop blowing the doors off so it is obvious something fishy goes on. If TB bought in for $500 and turned it into $2000 and bet some sports then went back to his ATM of a video poker machine every now and again, he could have made a living out of this possibly for months before getting caught. Small hits, small withdrawals, mix up your action.

No because someone else was playing the game at the same time and they likely would have audited his account anyway. Sometimes you can't milk. That said, he could have cashed out lower and the book might have deemed it a more acceptable loss and paid.

[Bill Dozer]

There is an underlying mob mentality with a level of anger that is akin to the abortion debate in America. In the Zabula case people were arguing the bot rule itself which totally misses the point of the whole case. You can't use a bot in Vegas and you can't use it online in any situation, enough said. But if you fought that position the anger was overwhelming. I was attacked but nobody could disagree with the point of no bot in Vegas, no bot online.

I agree with DarkHorse and StraitShooter. If this game were 115%-130% EV and he exploited it, he should be paid. A 390% edge is an obvious error. He took a shot and hoped because he was doing it as a human he would be paid. He knew what he was doing and that is why he only deposited $50. So if Tony screwed him he wouldn't be out a lot of money either.

In the end he got $300-400 in free play. Not horrible since he can again take a free shot but by no means is it $32,000. I hope TB can turn it cleanly into thousands.

The problem with 5Dimes and its disputes is Tony. Tony has slapped so many people on these forums (right or wrong) that they are so fired up against him, they will say Tony MUST PAY (TheGreen) before the case and facts even come out. When Tony wins they feel Tony is rubbing their faces in it and these folks go off the deep end and feel there is some conspiracy. It becomes a riot and not a debate.

I have yet to see 5Dimes not pay someone on a sports bet that had the correct line and was put in on time. I have yet to see someone hit huge parlays back to back and everything in the parlay was fair and an A+ book not pay. If I missed such a complaint please let me know. To me that is what matters in picking a book. The day Tony or another A+ book cheats a player in that way and refuses to pay them and SBR sides with the A+ book, then I agree that SBR loses all credibility. Until then, people not paid for using bots or trying to take free shots at HUGE +EV errors in the casino do not play into what is a good book, for me. Since I am not trying to take free shots or trying to break/bend rules. All I want is to bet at a book, take a baseball side or a 10 team parlay, win and collect. If the book will pay me in those cases without issue, thanks and good night!

Well said. Tony has his style with livechat and usually only handles certain livechat issue. He's not the guy that tries to sell a reup bonus. It keeps the live chats short and [not] sweet but looks rough to the public.

[goucla]

i will certainly never ever consider depsiting there not even over wsex

[cyberinvestor]

Thanks Bill! I appreciate the sentiment as all the nasty thread replies I was getting (especially with Zabula) made me wonder if I was just going nuts.

[Microphone]

From 5 Dimes rules: 5Dimes reserves the right to reverse the incorrect application of funds into an account due to human or system/software error.

The game was clearly in error with a +390 favoring the player. Maybe I'm wrong here but gambling is supposed to be all about risk-reward and not searching the web for casinos that make errors which is what this guy admits to doing.

Agree. A simple pointing out of the error might of earned some free $$$ for being an honest guy. That shipped has probably sailed though.

[shari91]

What if it was 135%? 150%? What point do you say no the player should not be paid? Because Tony is a complete moron and wants to offer +EV games but failed math so badly that he offered it at 390% he should get off and not have to pay? But if he entered it as a 130% game he should pay? Why? How do you draw the line? He offered the game to the player, the player made money, the player should be paid or the book rogued. End of discussion as far as I can see.

This post reminded me of something I've been meaning to ask but forgot to, so anyone please feel free to answer it. And if this is a stupid question, please forgive me that too.

Near the beginning of this thread Tackleberry said the game he played - Aces and 8s Level Payout - offered a bonus payout of 8.17 for Jacks or Better and 2 pair. Which is the same payout you'd receive for any of other hands that paid out according to this table from 5Dimes. To me it looks like more of a data entry error instead of a math one. If Tackleberry had said the Jacks or Better bonus payout was 4.13 or whatever, then I'd see why everyone is saying Tony screwed up the math but isn't this more likely that someone was entering the values for the 9 lines above and just mistakenly carried them down to the last 2 lines or am I missing something here? (which is very possible)

Aces & Eights - Level Payout Bonus
Minimum $0.25 to Maximum $5

Hand Ranking Bonus Casino Per Coin Standard Payout Per Coin

Royal Flush 8.17 250

4 Aces or 4 Eights 8.17 50

Straight Flush 8.17 80

Four Sevens 8.17 50

Four of a Kind 8.17 25

Full House 8.17* 8

Flush 8.17* 5

Straight 8.17* 4

Three of a Kind 8.17* 3

Two Pairs 0 2

Jacks or Better 0 1

*Expanded payouts in Bonus Casino

http://www.5dimes.com/chartacesandeights.html

[SBR_John]

John it was an input error or operational error since the software is designed for operators to be able to change the paytable it is not a programming error as paid out exactly as it was programmed... Can you cite an example where a casino in Las Vegas has got out of paying winners due to a bad paytable?

'
It was a human math error. Its still an "error". If they guy played for a week he would of won in the millions. Instead of a -2% payout it was paying +390%! You guys are free to debate it but its quite obvious the payouts were grossly in error and you don't get paid on errors, to state the rather obvious.

[chachi]

John, if a bricks-n-mortar US licensed casino puts a machine on the floor programmed to that table, with a printed payout card matching that, and a little old blue-haired gramma type hits a jackpot after a handful of spins by blind luck and picking the machine for its pretty flashing lights (and not by sharking/seeking out the incorrect paytable) explain exactly how the house has a leg to stand on ?

[clowncar]

'
It was a human math error. Its still an "error". If they guy played for a week he would of won in the millions. Instead of a -2% payout it was paying +390%! You guys are free to debate it but its quite obvious the payouts were grossly in error and you don't get paid on errors, to state the rather obvious.

You do get paid on errors but there is a point where the liability should end on grotesque errors. I mean no one should really believe the casino should go out of business because of one terrible error on a paytable. But certainly everyone should agree that the book should take some financial responsibility for said errors. I think most reasonable people would agree to those three points. So then the debate comes down to how much liability should the book be willing to absorb and that is likely where most of us would disagree.