EasyStreet casino winner accused of using robot software

[milwaukee mike]

I knew you would come around, Mike. Hopefully you don't reverse course again when Wil posts his 4th grade defense. Here is Wil, with all his expertise and 12 years experience working a 10 machine video poker bank in vegas. You would think he would know what a straight paid. He clearly is in over his head with this dispute:

i am always open-minded. since i thought he should be paid from day one, i won't say i was completely wrong but i love finding out i am even PARTIALLY wrong about something. given the way they have handled the case so far, i was wrong in thinking ez or the rx had any credibility or sense of morals at all.

if we never change our mind or realize we are wrong about something, we might as well quit trying to learn or become better human beings. hopefully (but not likely) rx will realize this and side with the player unless rx/ez can come up with a much better reason to not pay than the ones they've floated so far.

[milwaukee mike]

if i could find a 9/6 jacks or better machine that paid 8-1 on a straight i would spend 24 hrs/day on it

[CallMeChip]

Fly to Costa Rica and take a polygraph test ?
First off, polygraphs don't mean shit. At best a polygraph test can hope to be around 60% and there are ridiculous amounts of physiological and emotional reactions that can skew the results. If a polygraph was a viable means of making people tell the truth there would be one in every courtroom while you're on the stand. The fact any company would even suggest using one to prove innocence mean's that they're either retarded or full of shit, or in this case, both.

Second off, the argument that he didn't stop or pause after hitting the royals is just stupid. Just because someone's reaction to something isn't the norm doesn't mean a goddam thing. The guy could have easily been in the zone. I've seen a guy almost literally beat a person to death outside a bar, and I mean broken bones and blood from every facial orifice, and then turn to his buddy,smile, and say in the calmest manner, "I need a beer." Dude went into the bar and ordered a beer like it was nothing, hands covered in blood. I know it's a strange comparison, but the principle is exactly the same. Different people react differently to everything. If I'm on a killer hot streak at the crap table and I hit my number and my odds cash big time am I gonna stop and call my mother to let her know the good news? No, if you're any sort of smart gambler and not a tourist you keep your eye on the prize and keep rolling.

I get sick to my stomach when I hear someone taking a bet and not paying out just because they don't feel like it.

[yokspot]

I watched Justin's video, read to page 5 then jumped to page 17. So I may have missed something.

Issue is: did he use a bot? Arguments about why it shouldn't matter in a -EV situation are valid and correct in themselves, but irrelevant. It's in the rules (in order to deter multi-accounting casino bonus hunters, which the OP clearly is not, but that's beside the point).

The speed may not be relevant - time was I could play about 20 hands per minute of blackjack on fast software. The fact that he ignored fully three 20K royals, barely pausing for breath (I think that is correct?), is very odd. Is there any explanation for this?

I would be interested, for example, in more specific data about the time between the hand resolution and the next deal; is it identical? If each time is identical, that might indicate a bot. If this has been established in the pages I haven't read, sorry 'bout that.

You could speculate on why the hell he'd use a bot to play $25 VP in the first place. Very odd decision seems to me, but casinos do build autoplay functions into their software for just this reason. I figure there's no accounting for degenerate gamblers.

The evidence for the bot does not seem compelling to me. It's also unquestionably the case that the casino is acting on a technicality and looking for an excuse not to pay, but rules are rules at the end of the day and the casino's crappy motives for looking for a way out of 46K aren't relevant.

All of which leads me to say that I'm not decided on this. Disregarding three 20K royals is wierd as hell, but probably not enough to justify withholding the money.

[pokerplayer22]

Fly to Costa Rica and take a polygraph test ?
First off, polygraphs don't mean shit. At best a polygraph test can hope to be around 60% and there are ridiculous amounts of physiological and emotional reactions that can skew the results. If a polygraph was a viable means of making people tell the truth there would be one in every courtroom while you're on the stand. The fact any company would even suggest using one to prove innocence mean's that they're either retarded or full of shit, or in this case, both.

Second off, the argument that he didn't stop or pause after hitting the royals is just stupid. Just because someone's reaction to something isn't the norm doesn't mean a goddam thing. The guy could have easily been in the zone. I've seen a guy almost literally beat a person to death outside a bar, and I mean broken bones and blood from every facial orifice, and then turn to his buddy,smile, and say in the calmest manner, "I need a beer." Dude went into the bar and ordered a beer like it was nothing, hands covered in blood. I know it's a strange comparison, but the principle is exactly the same. Different people react differently to everything. If I'm on a killer hot streak at the crap table and I hit my number and my odds cash big time am I gonna stop and call my mother to let her know the good news? No, if you're any sort of smart gambler and not a tourist you keep your eye on the prize and keep rolling.

I get sick to my stomach when I hear someone taking a bet and not paying out just because they don't feel like it.

You just decscribed the one and only....Mr Alex Powers

[yokspot]

Here is Wil's post condemning Cory and basically not only saying he used a bot, but inferring that he actually manipulated the cards and produced the royals himself.

Where in his remarks did you see this? I looked for it with great interest, but could find nothing. In fact, I thought his comments were entirely fair.

Wil continues to claim the player played 17.4 hands per minute when it was actually closer to 11.2 according to the game logs.

Can you post a link to the relevant thread?

Having read everything now in this thread, I see the player did take bonuses on each deposit (WTF was the casino thinking, dishing out 100% $250 reups a go? Do they have no clue at all?). This does make bot use much more realistic an accusation, Cory being a bonus hunter and not a recreational gambler. It doesn't prove it, so detailed information about the logs would be useful.

As to Wilhelm's judgement (I never heard of him before today and have no axe to grind), the only issue I have is with the polygraph test, which is unreasonable - if I had to take one with $46,000 at stake I'd probably spontaneously combust, let alone fail it. Apart from that, I thought his offer was pretty fair. However, assuming the player did not play 18 hpm for five hours straight, he should only be required to demonstrate that speed of play for the ACTUAL session times he played. One was for 1 hour 40 minutes, which should more than suffice.

So: comp him a few days in CR with all adherent security, have him demo 100 minutes perfect JOB at 17 hpm (take off one hand for the stress involved), and if he passes, pay him. Do NOT make him take a polygraph test.

I'd take it.

[milwaukee mike]

who provides the security yokspot? if it is cory then is the security paid for/comped also and how many guys can he bring?
even if i had 10 guys with me, i don't think i would go to costa rica to take a test for someone who has made it clear they don't want to pay - if they are that willing to pay for expenses to prove himself then they are obviously looking for a way to pay $5k instead of $46k.

i can't believe you think an offer that makes someone go to a foreign country to be tested by guys that called him a liar and cheat is fair.
the odds of them paying after that test are exactly the same as the odds of them paying without him taking the test.

[yokspot]

I figure the checks put in place as suggested by Wilhelm would "guarantee" his safety as much as you can guarantee anything. This has been reasonably publicised. Imagine the consequences if he was roughed up.

i can't believe you think an offer that makes someone go to a foreign country to be tested by guys that called him a liar and cheat is fair.
the odds of them paying after that test are exactly the same as the odds of them paying without him taking the test.

The theory is that the odds of him being paid on successful completion are 100%. If he passed (100 minutes at 18 hpm and NO polygraph I think is fair), they could not welch and maintain any credibility. The RX would also face humiliation, so it'd be in their interests to ensure payment.

I do not think that Wilhelm's proposal of (I think?) five hours straight at 18 hpm AND a polygraph is fair. He should only be tested on what his results claim to demonstrate, and the polygraph is obviously useless. I do think Wilhelm was on the right sort of track, though, and I can't comment on the allegations about him posting mathematical BS in some RX thread, as I haven't seen them, and I note that a lot of what he's said has been misrepresented.

[pokernut9999]

People will go to Costa Rica for a bash but not for 46K.

You guys watch too many movies , no one is going to kill someone down there.

[Fishhead]

if i could find a 9/6 jacks or better machine that paid 8-1 on a straight i would spend 24 hrs/day on it

I had one in Vegas and lost over $30,000 on it..........welcome to my nightmares.

[milwaukee mike]

People will go to Costa Rica for a bash but not for 46K.

You guys watch too many movies , no one is going to kill someone down there.

so you think if you have cheated a bunch of admitted "old-school" sportsbook owners then you would just go down there, pass the test, and walk out with 46k?


if they wanted to pay they would've already. if they wanted a fair test or mediation process they would've had sbr do it.
the odds of him getting roughed up or killed are slim, but they're still exponentially higher than the odds of him walking out of their office with 46k.

[CallMeChip]

Fact is, if he went down there, took the hand speed test, took the polygraph test, took a blood test, took a urine test... No matter what he agrees to, if he passes everything with flying colors, they can just make something up or nitpick his results and say fukoff. It's that simple. Then it's just his word against there's, which is precisely where he finds himself now, except now he's on their turf instead of common gound. They could literally say oh you missed one hand during the speedtest... well wtf do you think azzhole? He's in a foreign country, guys are hovering above him, he has no idea what's in store, he's surrounded by people who want to see something bad happen to him... it's a far cry from playing in his house, I would fully assume he would play like sh!t in that environment.

Mike has it right, if they were ever gonna pay they could find a way to do it in the status quo, they just don't want to.

[KGambler]

Having read everything now in this thread, I see the player did take bonuses on each deposit (WTF was the casino thinking, dishing out 100% $250 reups a go? Do they have no clue at all?). This does make bot use much more realistic an accusation, Cory being a bonus hunter and not a recreational gambler. It doesn't prove it, so detailed information about the logs would be useful.

As to Wilhelm's judgement (I never heard of him before today and have no axe to grind), the only issue I have is with the polygraph test, which is unreasonable - if I had to take one with $46,000 at stake I'd probably spontaneously combust, let alone fail it. Apart from that, I thought his offer was pretty fair. However, assuming the player did not play 18 hpm for five hours straight, he should only be required to demonstrate that speed of play for the ACTUAL session times he played. One was for 1 hour 40 minutes, which should more than suffice.

So: comp him a few days in CR with all adherent security, have him demo 100 minutes perfect JOB at 17 hpm (take off one hand for the stress involved), and if he passes, pay him. Do NOT make him take a polygraph test.

I'd take it.

Please stop. You are not familiar with the case, and you are just cluttering up the thread.

1. it has now come out that cory1111 played way, way past the wagering requirement for the bonus. After hitting his third royal, his account balance was close to $60K. he kept playing and lost $12K back. the only reason he stopped playing is because they froze his account

2. what you propose (cory1111 goes to CR, does not take a polygraph but shows he can play at that speed) has been proposed by Cory to easystreet, through SBR, and SBR has confirmed that easystreet has rejected that proposal. Now that you know that, how bad does that make ezstreet look? Easystreet has insisted that any payment will be 100% dependent on Cory1111 "passing" a polygraph, in CR, conducted by a Costa Rican company hired by Easystreet. It is very obvious that they don't want to pay him, or can't afford to.

[McFly86]

Justin, maybe you could submit the following questions to the book:-


1. Set out the specific reason/s why payment has been denied.

2. Do you have any evidence that the player was using a "bot"?

3. Do you have any evidence that the player was utilising "artificical intelligence"?

4. Do you have any evidence that the player was manipulating the software to produce better results?

5. On what basis do you require the player to submit himself to a real-life demonstration of his playing the game?

6. What would this demonstration involve and according to what criteria would the player "pass" or "fail" such a test?

7. On what basis do you require the player to submit himself to polygraph testing?

8. Why do you believe that a polygraph test would provide accurate evidence (with reference to the issues raised in United States v Scheffer 523 US 3039 (1998))?

9. What would the polygraph test involve and according to what criteria would the player "pass" or "fail" this test?

10. If the player "passed" the real-life demonstration and the polygraph test, would he be paid immediately, or would he be subject to further tests?

11. What is the financial relationship between the book and TheRx.com?

12. Are you able to demonstrate that you are able to pay out the disputed amount of $46,000.00?

[Scooter]

I would've thought one of the forum regulars would've mentioned this by now - There was a story in the forums in the last few years - maybe 5 years or so? - about a guy having some money owed him who flew to CR or else whatever island the business was on that owed him, after they called him in for a meeting.

He was badly beaten by some thugs, I believe at their office or near their office.

It may not have involved unpaid sports bets, it may have been that he had some business involvement with the sportsbook or gambling company involved. He may have been in a lawsuit with them or about to sue.

I don't have the time, but this could probably be googled.

[BuckeyeT]

I would've thought one of the forum regulars would've mentioned this by now - There was a story in the forums in the last few years - maybe 5 years or so? - about a guy having some money owed him who flew to CR or else whatever island the business was on that owed him, after they called him in for a meeting.

He was badly beaten by some thugs, I believe at their office or near their office.

It may not have involved unpaid sports bets, it may have been that he had some business involvement with the sportsbook or gambling company involved. He may have been in a lawsuit with them or about to sue.

I don't have the time, but this could probably be googled.

Not sure if this is the same story but i have read on other forums and it can be googled as well.

A guy was on vaca down in CR and was also owed money by those scumbag virtual group casinos.

He decided to visit there office to see if he could get paid in person and then was not so nicely escorted out of the building by there thugs and was told if he ever stepped foot in there again he would not being going home.

There is noway in hell this corey should take one step in CR.

[BET THE HOOK]

Agreed. Don't go to CR. They want the test so they need to fly to neutral turf and pay for everything.

[yokspot]

1. it has now come out that cory1111 played way, way past the wagering requirement for the bonus. After hitting his third royal, his account balance was close to $60K. he kept playing and lost $12K back. the only reason he stopped playing is because they froze his account.

It does add to the argument that he's a gambler, and not a bonus hunter, that he over-wagered. Of course, whichever he is shouldn't have any bearing on the matter other than the fact that a bonus hunter will be inclined to use a bot (it's modus operandi for multi-accounters) and for a gambler it seems unlikely. However, if we're to hypothesise on his gambling objectives, taking the maximum reup bonus on each deposit points in the other direction. And gamblers DO use autoplay bots - Microgaming has one built in just for this purpose.

Why did Easystreet reject the non-polygraph option? Did they give a reason? Polygraphs are not foolproof. Has Wilhelm commented on this option? I don't think I've missed any relevant aspects of the case, having read this thread from top to toe.

If ES can guarantee full payment if he submits to their requirements, it may be the only way forward. If he IS genuine, he stands every chance of passing if 1) the polygraph is done professionally and independently verifiable, ie. not a fit up by ES and 2) he's required to demonstrate a level of play no more stringent than he's already demonstrated. He cannot be required to play 5 hours straight, as at no point did he demonstrate such an ability. I think 100 minutes non-stop is the maximum.

For 46K, it might be worth considering, as the alternative is nothing to the player. Even then he's comped a few days in CR.

On a more general note, let's not forget this fellow is a proven fraudster. It would be reasonable for a mediator to reject his request for help on this basis alone, so put in this context, I'm not sure the OP can reasonably be too picky about his options.

[WVU]

On a more general note, let's not forget this fellow is a proven fraudster.

We haven't seen any proof. Anywhere. If you have seen this proof please enlighten us

[yokspot]

He was paid a disputed 15K at some book (Northbet or whatever), then charged back his deposit? I read an SBR mod handled the case.

Also, his initial $450 deposit at ES was allegedly dodgey, he fiddled with the digits to turn a $45 actual figure into $450 or something like that.

In the video, Justin said words to the effect that he was shady, but I'm not clear why as he appeared to also suggest that the "fraud" allegations were unsubstantiated.

Fact is, if you get busted as a cheat it is not unreasonable for a mediator to refuse help, so if a cheater does receive help, it's a bit rich to be picky about it. Of course, if all the allegations are false and the OP in an online angel, then that doesn't apply.

[yokspot]

Here:

Actually if you've been following the story you would know that 5 months ago Cory1111 filed a complaint with SBR that Northbet closed his account and refused to pay his $15,000 balance, Lou recently confirmed that he arbitrated in the case and that Cory1111 was eventually paid and once paid immediately did a ********** on his deposit. Lou has no relation with Easystreet and has no reason to lie about this.

This isn't disputed I assume?

[Justin7]

Yokspot,

Can you show me where it Cory1111 allegedly did a ********** after getting paid? He has been accused of this, but I haven't seen anything suggesting this is true, including emails forwarded to me.

[vitalyo]

Some of you guys still talking non sense like traveling to Costa Rica for what ever reasons to prove ,you say 46K is on the line .

Next thing you know in order to collect your winnings you will have to travel to Philippines (where the most of the Asian books operate ) Then Russia, UK , Sweden, Australia .

If i was Cory the only trip i would take is to Brighton Bitch NY for 50% funds recovery fee . Guaranteed 23K payout .


Wilheim is a shill .Pretty soon Easystreet will be out of business .
Wil just destroyed his own reputation for nothing and damaged RX reputation as well . I have been with RX for few years and i never had any bad experiences ,but i couldn't help noticing that forum deletes unwanted posts and puts posters on review delays .
All of this left a bad taste . In the last 18 month i visited RX maybe 3-4 times (2ce because of Easy scandal ) never made a post .
I just don't feel right to contribute to someone or group of people who picks and choose/ DICTATES on what is right .

Clearly Easy is done . Fish said 2 of his "friends" are gonna deposit . No doubt there will be a fish who will bite on bonus and some bonus whores .After Cory no pay case I predicted book will not last for another year ,but if there is no NFL season 6 months tops .
Easy tells Justin7 not to talk to them again . Why ? They don't care about the rating . The only reason i can think of they have no plans to be around and never had .

What excuse Wil is gonna use (to his fellow members)when Easy folds ?

Justin7 is the most far guy i came across (internet) !
At this point if Easystreet would wanna save their reputation they would need to fire the whole management team and apologies to Cory and SBR .

GL.

[vitalyo]

Yokspot,

Can you show me where it Cory1111 allegedly did a ********** after getting paid? He has been accused of this, but I haven't seen anything suggesting this is true, including emails forwarded to me.

Yesterday, 03:02 PM #599
yokspot I watched Justin's video, read to page 5 then jumped to page 17. So I may have missed something.

Yeah i believe you missed over 12 pages = well over 400 posts .
Your arguments and questions are been discussed before .
Spare some time and read the whole trend . You are a bit behind .

GL.

[pokerplayer22]

All i know is every single reaon EZ gave for not paying this winning player was shot right down and they have absolutely no reason at all to be stiffing in this case. Their management (Powers) has a long history of this behavior and probably doesnt care if they have to close their doors because they will just open up under a new name and sucker some more people into making deposits, (knowing full well that they have no intention of paying anyone what wins a decent amount). We, as gamblers and posters here, just need to keep our eyes open for their next scam and keep the forums updated.

[WVU]

If i was Cory the only trip i would take is to Brighton Bitch NY for 50% funds recovery fee . Guaranteed 23K payout .

What is this about? Are they legit? How would they collect?

[vitalyo]

What is this about? Are they legit? How would they collect?

Yes they are ! Brighton Bitch is the Head quarters for Russian mob in North America.

I don't advice anyone to use them . Because i watched few russian documentaries on how they collect .

[WVU]

lol

[KGambler]

This isn't disputed I assume?

The only thing not in dispute is that Sharpcat suffers from really poor reading comprehension. He read one of Lou's posts and got confused.

[JosephPavs]

What can you say but wow

[HedgeHog]

I'm still confused as to what happened at Northbet, something which Lou should explain. Did Cory send Northbet $450 or not? If he only "allegedly truly" (Lou's terminolgy) sent $50 then the brunt of his winnings is fraudulent and should not have been paid.

Since you addressed Northbet, I can confirm from working the complaint personally that his entire $15,000+ balance was ultimately paid and his account closed.

1. Northbet accused him of opening his account with a false cash transaction. He claimed to have sent $450, there was a processor error with the transaction, and a copy of a receipt was sent by Cory which was allegedly truly for $50 but altered to appear like $450.

2. Cory's winnings were generated from Video Poker play. His account was disabled and investigated after hitting two Royal Flushes in an alleged 3 week time-frame. No data was provided to SBR on the amount of hands played or speed, because NorthBet admitted not having any evidence that his actual casino play was fraudulent.

[yokspot]

Yokspot,

Can you show me where it Cory1111 allegedly did a ********** after getting paid? He has been accused of this, but I haven't seen anything suggesting this is true, including emails forwarded to me.

Lou recently confirmed that he arbitrated in the case and that Cory1111 was eventually paid and once paid immediately did a ********** on his deposit.

Lou didn't say that?

On what basis did you say in the video words to the effect that the OP was a shady character?

[KGambler]

yokspot, Sharpcat doesn't have a secret source of Lou quotes. Everything Lou has said (for public consumption) about the Northbet case is available on the forums. Use the advanced search function. Choose "Lou" as the poster and put "northbet" as the subject. Or you could just read all of his posts in this thread and in the Northbet/Cory thread. Lou never said that. Sharpcat just doesn't read English all that well.

[yokspot]

OK, an SBR poster misrepresented an SBR official's statement, which SBR hasn't (I think) corrected. All very odd. But anyway, let's put the ********** allegation aside.

What about the $50 deposit that was "fiddled" to register at the book as $450? Is this a fabrication too?

In the video Justin says:

The player has a history of chargebacks and casino fraud which bring to question his credibility

Why did he say this?

It seems odd that the player is accused of multiple cases of fraud, all of have which have dwindled into nothing. Seriously? So is he a fraudster or not?

I've got the logs now. I'm going to take the poster who said the longest session was about 1 hour 40 minutes at their word. The royals are very odd, though:

1st Royal: one additional non-scoring hand played, then stop.

2nd royal: two additional hands played. A score, 3OAK, a no score, then stop.

3rd royal: one additional non-scoring hand played, then stop.

It's plenty wierd. He didn't stop on any of the three royals, only directly after, and after a no-score hand in both cases. If this is genuine play, it's the most wierd-ass I can imagine. I'm not saying it's definitely not human play as I cannot, but it's wierd. Does he kind of "wind down" after his royals, slowing coming to a halt rather than stopping outright? And after all three, coincidentally in the exact same manner after the non-score hand? Did he explain this behaviour? I have never not stopped on a royal during bonus wagering, much less stopped but only after a dead hand.

Wierd as hell.

On the other hand, the timings per hand are largely inconsistent, 3 seconds, 4.5 seconds, 2.9 etc etc. Looked at as bot play, this might be explained by different holds, ie. the programme takes more time holding four cards than discarding all five. Equally, WVU tells us that bots that can mix up like this exist.

[stevenash]

Wilheim is a shill .
Wil just destroyed his own reputation for nothing and damaged RX reputation as well . I have been with RX for few years and i never had any bad experiences ,but i couldn't help noticing that forum deletes unwanted posts and puts posters on review delays .

SBR puts posters on post review also.
SBR deletes posts also.

Wil is a stand up guy. I've know him six years now.
Wil made sure a lot of players got paid who got ripped off from BoS several years ago.
I was one of them. He got me 4K I never would have seen from BoS if he didn't step in.

Wil has made sure tons of players that got slow / no paid from various books get paid.

Why don't you let this investigation play out before you judge.

Who the hell are you to judge anyone anyway?
Wil has done so much good for the off shore industry.