Betfair robs 100s of players with "Happy Hour" casino promo (Video)

**Hareeba!** · 12-06-10, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by acw

What do Ladbrokes, Willy Hilly, Stan James, Victor Chandler AND BetFair have in common?

they're all Poms
other than that very little

**sportsbetwin** · 12-07-10, 05:04 AM

As an Aussie Betfair is safe as a bank.

Their behaviour here is bad - but I have zero concerns about my money at Betfair (I don't use online casinos).

**lawnmower** · 12-08-10, 08:10 AM

Casinomeister had put Betfair casino as rogue. http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/betfair.php

**vitalyo** · 12-08-10, 08:43 AM

Great read

. I am glad Casinomeister put them in rouge . That Should teach them a lesson you can't steal money at will .
If you don't mind i'll post the article here

Betfair - not so fair... One thing that I've always stressed when speaking with online casino managers is that if you make a mistake, admit it, own up to it, make up for it, and move on.

I remember when I bought a steak at Ralph's back in San Diego years ago, I noticed I was overcharged by a dollar. It was supposed to be on sale.

I returned to the store and asked the manager if he could refund the difference. He said, "No problem." He then proceeded to refund the entire amount - the expensive chunk of meat was now free of charge. "We messed up the price; it's yours to keep."

They made a mistake - admitted it - and the manager went on to rectify the problem by installing renewed credence and trust in the business. It may have been merely an act of good faith and fairness, but this was thirteen years ago and I'm still talking about it now.

And even though Ralph's is a grocery store, the management of an online gaming site should be no different.

Betfair Casino ran a promo on Saturday 13 November which offered an unlimited happy hour bonus with only 10x playthrough. When they realized how much they were losing, they changed the playthrough amount to 20x and began locking accounts and confiscating winnings.

Even though players had risked their own funds and met the posted wagering requirements, they were given the "speak to the hand" treatment and were told that they had not played in the "Spirit of the Bonus."

Enforcing a "spirit of the bonus" clause is something that a rogue Costa Rican clip shot joint would have pulled years ago. Most rogue casinos wouldn't even try to pull a stunt like this now. For the player, the "spirit" is to win; for the casino, it's for the player to lose, right?

From Casinomeister's philosophy and mission statement section:
"Spirit of the Bonus"
No such animal. If the casino offers a bonus, the casino should not assume on what grounds the bonus should be accepted. If the player wants to just play and watch the reels spin or is playing to make a profit, it is not up to the casino to enforce subjective terms like "spirit".
Betfair was a Casinomeister Accredited Casino, but they were removed from the Accredited section as soon as this episode began to unfold. Complaints at Casinomeister began to pile up, and Max forwarded these to Betfair's casino representative. He responded to only the first batch with a blanket response - again - referring to players exploiting the spirit of the bonus. He recommended that players contact the LGA if they had any problem with this.

Malta's LGA is one of the most non-responsive licensing agencies ever. You might as well complain to the mailman.

Of course, the player issues spilled out into the forum. One startling note is that a player has reported that Betfair paid his winnings into his bank account, only to remove them later. Alarming behaviour for a publicly traded company.

As Vinylweatherman stated here, "Betfair are trying to make out they are victims of mass "bonus abuse", rather than victims of their own incompetence." It looks like he hit the nail right on the head.

Players need to be aware that Betfair will confiscate winnings at a whim. If they don't like the way you play, even though you risk your own funds and meet the wagering requirement, they will exercise their right to seize your winnings.

Avoid this casino at all costs.

Reference material here:
Betfair Bonus Fiasco.

**jennahazeplays** · 12-08-10, 08:45 AM

straight up criminal if u ask me

**nenad** · 12-08-10, 10:02 AM

i think casino and exchange have nothing in common so this video shoold be posted at some casino forum

**sportsbetwin** · 12-08-10, 03:21 PM

Precisely - Betfair casino is a different beast to betfair exchange in more ways than one.

And those who would rather have a fortune at pinnacle rather than betfair just don't get it.

Pinnacle is a rock - but at the end of the day it is in Netherland Antilles and it is a sportsbook.

Betfair is an Exchange and licensed in UK and Australia.

**lawnmower** · 12-08-10, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by sportsbetwin

Precisely - Betfair casino is a different beast to betfair exchange in more ways than one.

And those who would rather have a fortune at pinnacle rather than betfair just don't get it.

Pinnacle is a rock - but at the end of the day it is in Netherland Antilles and it is a sportsbook.

Betfair is an Exchange and licensed in UK and Australia.

BUT THIS IS THE POINT OF WHY WE KEEP BANGING ON ABOUT IT!!!

The ‘UK license’ is worthless. The money WAS taken from my exchange account but they say the matter comes under Malta jurisdiction. Why? Because they bloody say so!!!!

IBAS the UK adjudicator is not interested. The UK Gaming commission are not interested. So what is the value of a UK licence. None.

**Hareeba!** · 12-08-10, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by lawnmower

So what is the value of a UK licence. None.

plenty if you don't mess with casinos

**Landprofits** · 12-08-10, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by lawnmower

BUT THIS IS THE POINT OF WHY WE KEEP BANGING ON ABOUT IT!!!

The ‘UK license’ is worthless. The money WAS taken from my exchange account but they say the matter comes under Malta jurisdiction. Why? Because they bloody say so!!!!

IBAS the UK adjudicator is not interested. The UK Gaming commission are not interested. So what is the value of a UK licence. None.

I wonder if IBAS the the UK GC would take a different stance to this is someone took Betfair to court.

**Landprofits** · 12-08-10, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

plenty if you don't mess with casinos

Mmmm.... not so, I have heard of players having their accounts locked before all this for mickey mouse reasons and funds confisticated.

**yokspot** · 12-08-10, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by lawnmower

IBAS the UK adjudicator is not interested. The UK Gaming commission are not interested. So what is the value of a UK licence. None.

Clearly IBAS is bought and paid for. Nothing new there.

However, whether or not UK GC is worthless is untried. I suspect it is. But like it or not the casino is in Malta. All activity took place in Malta. If it was an issue with the SB it'd be a different matter, but it's not.

Suppose you withdrew direct from the casino. At this point you wouldn't even consider the exchange. The only difference is that, as per Betfair's set up, the money passes through the exchange prior to reaching you. And if the simple money passage somehow passed all jurisdiction to the UK, why would they bother with location in Malta at all? Why pay for two licenses? The reason is that location in Malta suits them from all perspectives, financial (taxes), jurisdiction (or the lack thereof), the lot. They don't pay to be in the UK and the UK is not responsible for them.

This is clutching at straws. Maybe you should still have a crack at a class action here, straws notwithstanding, so as at least there won't be the lingering doubt that it MIGHT have been an avenue. But there's no point in blaming the UK GC for not getting involved with something outside their jurisdiction.

**Hareeba!** · 12-08-10, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by Landprofits

Mmmm.... not so, I have heard of players having their accounts locked before all this for mickey mouse reasons and funds confisticated.

yeah, but do you have knowledge of why that happened?
you can be pretty sure that it's because they have broken the very strict rules laid down by Betfair and their regulators
I and several mates have been playing at Betfair for almost a decade and never experienced any issues of that nature

**lukahh** · 12-09-10, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

yeah, but do you have knowledge of why that happened?
you can be pretty sure that it's because they have broken the very strict rules laid down by Betfair and their regulators
I and several mates have been playing at Betfair for almost a decade and never experienced any issues of that nature

indeed - i never heard of any reliable complaints for exchange.

having said that - i feel less safe using it as they obviously dont care much about fairness and their goodwill.

**austin** · 12-09-10, 02:40 AM

this thread becomes tedious - i personally don't like betfair and hardly use them, but regarding the safety it is just stupid to question the safety of funds there while depositing offshore

**Birre** · 12-09-10, 04:17 AM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

I and several mates have been playing at Betfair for almost a decade and never experienced any issues of that nature

So because you and your friends never had problems this is impossible?

**Hareeba!** · 12-09-10, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by Birre

So because you and your friends never had problems this is impossible?

it's not "impossible" of course
but I don't really think it happens

Betfair is an exchange
It doesn't lose bets to its customers
So the more customers they have the more they make from commissions on bets they place
It doesn't therefore make sense for them to boot customers
And on top of that they have optimistic growth plans to gain footholds in new jurisdictions including the US
Accordingly they do everything in their power to keep their name "clean" so that opponents can't point at them being associated with money laundering or cheating so they have a "one strike and you're out policy".

**BChrisB** · 12-09-10, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by yokspot

But there's no point in blaming the UK GC for not getting involved with something outside their jurisdiction.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the moment that players monies were transferred into sportbook accounts, doesn't that now make it the UK's jurisdiction?

**Hareeba!** · 12-09-10, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by BChrisB

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the moment that players monies were transferred into sportbook accounts, doesn't that now make it the UK's jurisdiction?

I believe you have a good point and that's a pretty weak response from the UK authorities.

But I have a strong feeling we haven't arrived at the final chapter of this story yet

**tommygun** · 12-09-10, 05:34 AM

You USA players are just jealous you can't play at a decent book.

**BChrisB** · 12-09-10, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by lawnmower

Casinomeister had put Betfair casino as rogue. http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/betfair.php

I'll say one good thing about Casinomeister. He doesn't give a F**K about affiliate earnings when it comes to right or wrong.

**BChrisB** · 12-09-10, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by tommygun

You USA players are just jealous you can't play at a decent book.

What does that have to do with anything?

**Border Gadgie** · 12-09-10, 06:04 AM

I wonder if there are any other books or exchanges that add a 'premium charge' for the bigger punters/traders?

**Hareeba!** · 12-09-10, 06:14 AM

Originally posted by Border Gadgie

I wonder if there are any other books or exchanges that add a 'premium charge' for the bigger punters/traders?

no, there aren't
only BF can get away with crap like that
exchanges need a virtual monopoly to be able to provide critical mass liquidity - there isn't room for more of them and BF know it

**yokspot** · 12-09-10, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by BChrisB

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the moment that players monies were transferred into sportbook accounts, doesn't that now make it the UK's jurisdiction?

Legally speaking, I can't say. All I can say is that 1) it seems ridiculous to me that the UK GC would take jurisdiction over a matter concerning an entity licensed in another jurisdiction, and 2) they seem to agree as they've already said as much. So as I said above, I don't think so.

All you can do is put it to the test and take the matter to court. You would obviously get advice from a lawyer first, who might well be tempted to paint the chances as brighter than they truly are to get your business. I'm pretty sure no lawyer would take this on a contingency basis, so you'd have to do some serious thinking before going ahead with the plan because I'm pretty sure you'll only end up further out of pocket with lawyer fees and court costs.

Of course, you COULD sue them properly in Malta, but I would rate your chances at zero in the den of thieves.

**Landprofits** · 12-09-10, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

yeah, but do you have knowledge of why that happened?
you can be pretty sure that it's because they have broken the very strict rules laid down by Betfair and their regulators
I and several mates have been playing at Betfair for almost a decade and never experienced any issues of that nature

I also have several mates who have never.... ever.... had a problem with betfair either..... until the happy hour promotion.

None of them broke any rules laid down by betfair. They didn't even break the infamous bullsh*t "risk free play" rule, yet still had their accounts locked and funds seized.

Not sure about strict rules being laid down by their regulators, I think it's just terms and conditions laid down by betfair - half of which must be belly button fluff because they acted as they pleased after this promotion.

Let's say I enter a gaming establishment here in the UK and suspect a fruit machine (slot machine) is paying out too much. I win £1,000, at which point the owners of the establishment suspect that something is up....... do you think they can ask me for their money back?

If I go into a casino, lose, and then realise that I didn't understand the rules and gameplay - could I ask for my money back?

I don't think so.

Betfair offered a game on the night of the happy hour. They laid down the terms and didn't spot the flaw. Sharp players identified the flaw, played, and won.

Betfair lost the bet - they should pay.

Their lack of communication with players on this issue just goes to show how guilty they believe they are. They are trying to bury their heads in the sand and they know....that if anyone takes them to court.... there is a strong probability that they would lose the case, this would set the precedent and the floodgates for players to claim back their bonuses and winnings would open.

So to answer your original question, yes - I do have knowledge of why that happened, i'll retain my view that I think betfair are in the wrong. I am perfectly happy for you to keep your view that betfair is acting within it's rights.

Neither of our views reallly matter - what would be interesting to see is the result of a court action.

All the best.

**Birre** · 12-09-10, 12:59 PM

I don't know about the UK SB wallet but I know that money transferred to the AUS wallet will fall under AUS regulation (I think betfair even has to deposit that money in an AUS bank).

**Monte** · 12-09-10, 02:12 PM

Funny how the casino and exchange are seperated by the arbers who live from places like betfair of course, to defend this shithole. If Pinny's casino would cheat players you would be all over them, and we all would know it is the same management. But for Betfair that is different, sure sure

Just fukking admit that you need them, but otherwise they are little thieves (need i mention the premium charge? lol), and this discussion can end.

**Hareeba!** · 12-09-10, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Landprofits

I also have several mates who have never.... ever.... had a problem with betfair either..... until the happy hour promotion.

None of them broke any rules laid down by betfair. They didn't even break the infamous bullsh*t "risk free play" rule, yet still had their accounts locked and funds seized.

Not sure about strict rules being laid down by their regulators, I think it's just terms and conditions laid down by betfair - half of which must be belly button fluff because they acted as they pleased after this promotion.

Let's say I enter a gaming establishment here in the UK and suspect a fruit machine (slot machine) is paying out too much. I win £1,000, at which point the owners of the establishment suspect that something is up....... do you think they can ask me for their money back?

If I go into a casino, lose, and then realise that I didn't understand the rules and gameplay - could I ask for my money back?

I don't think so.

Betfair offered a game on the night of the happy hour. They laid down the terms and didn't spot the flaw. Sharp players identified the flaw, played, and won.

Betfair lost the bet - they should pay.

Their lack of communication with players on this issue just goes to show how guilty they believe they are. They are trying to bury their heads in the sand and they know....that if anyone takes them to court.... there is a strong probability that they would lose the case, this would set the precedent and the floodgates for players to claim back their bonuses and winnings would open.

So to answer your original question, yes - I do have knowledge of why that happened, i'll retain my view that I think betfair are in the wrong. I am perfectly happy for you to keep your view that betfair is acting within it's rights.

Neither of our views reallly matter - what would be interesting to see is the result of a court action.

All the best.

You're misquoting me.

I have never condoned or excused what BF appear to have done on the casino front.

My point was that I don't believe they confiscate sportsbook funds and close accounts without good cause such as law breaking or cheating which is what you claimed.

**BChrisB** · 12-09-10, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by yokspot

Legally speaking, I can't say. All I can say is that 1) it seems ridiculous to me that the UK GC would take jurisdiction over a matter concerning an entity licensed in another jurisdiction, and 2) they seem to agree as they've already said as much. So as I said above, I don't think so.

I would think that Malta has jurisdiction to players casino accounts. However, monies in sportsbooks player accounts are accounts that are regulated under the UK's GC. It shouldn't matter if money transfers came from a bank, an ewallet, an account transfer, etc, etc. Those are monies that were in accounts regulated by the UK GC.

It would be a real shame if they take the stance of no action on this.

**BChrisB** · 12-09-10, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Birre

I don't know about the UK SB wallet but I know that money transferred to the AUS wallet will fall under AUS regulation (I think betfair even has to deposit that money in an AUS bank).

As it should be.

**Stallion** · 12-09-10, 04:35 PM

So after Betfair has been found out as a scam shouldn't SBR DOWNGRADE Betfair???

**Hareeba!** · 12-09-10, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Stallion

So after Betfair has been found out as a scam shouldn't SBR DOWNGRADE Betfair???

I fail to see why. Isn't the rating for the sportsbook rather than the casino?

The sportsbook is the best in the world.

It doesn't matter what SBR rates them it won't change that.

SBR doesn't rate SBO either but when it comes to soccer AHs they are the world's best.

**BigdaddyQH** · 12-09-10, 04:59 PM

If anyone plays on any casino on line, you are just begging to get screwed. You may as well bend over, drop your drawers, and prepare to take it because that is what you are begging for. Bet Fair has a huge amount of money invested in TVG, and many other gaming concerns in California, as well as other parts of the nation. I am sure that they could care less about their on line casino. I have not heard of any more problems with their sportsbook than all the others. Bet offshore, and you are going to run into problems. That is the nature of the beast. Bet on line casinos, and you are going to lose. It is really that simple.

**Monte** · 12-09-10, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Stallion

So after Betfair has been found out as a scam shouldn't SBR DOWNGRADE Betfair???

Would it matter? noone who can use betfair would check SBR for a rating

If they have solid proof, and it sure looks like it after what Justin posted, it would be logical thou...